No, I haven't done an A/B yet - but I will, maybe tomorrow. But I know it sounds more dynamic than the ono.... although the ono is very good indeed.
I will take better pics, because these ones are old now, but these are the quads:
And the lenco is below.
The other system is zyx R50> air bearing arm>teres 260 clone>pass pearl with lundahl step ups>DCB1 (some crazy greek guy!)>tubecad EL84 triode PP and sachiko horns.
The sachiko are a great speaker btw... really good.
Fran
I will take better pics, because these ones are old now, but these are the quads:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
And the lenco is below.
The other system is zyx R50> air bearing arm>teres 260 clone>pass pearl with lundahl step ups>DCB1 (some crazy greek guy!)>tubecad EL84 triode PP and sachiko horns.
The sachiko are a great speaker btw... really good.
Fran
Attachments
No -never did objective measurements. But subjectively, they go plenty low. Same opinion from audio friends who have visited. There is a little bass boom in the room, but adding a carpet to the floor helps that a lot. They go lower than the sachiko though - I added subs to the sachiko, but don't need them with the quads.
OT: the stuff you hear about the quads not doing bass is BS really. They go plenty low, lower than most horns that are trumpeted as having very low bass. They migth not rattle your trousers, but what you will get is fast clean and tight bass. Not many cone drivers can do it.
Phonos: the ono clone (with a hypnotize shunt!), pearl with the lundahls, also have a few different versions of the phonoclones. I hope to bring the itch to a friend who has an Einstein phonostage (with HOMC sumiko) to try out too. He has nice airtight EL34 amp and quad 989s.
Fran
OT: the stuff you hear about the quads not doing bass is BS really. They go plenty low, lower than most horns that are trumpeted as having very low bass. They migth not rattle your trousers, but what you will get is fast clean and tight bass. Not many cone drivers can do it.
Phonos: the ono clone (with a hypnotize shunt!), pearl with the lundahls, also have a few different versions of the phonoclones. I hope to bring the itch to a friend who has an Einstein phonostage (with HOMC sumiko) to try out too. He has nice airtight EL34 amp and quad 989s.
Fran
Better you have same philosophy PSUs in them so monitoring the phonos its more relevant. Not a bass head myself too, I dig. OB is something. Does not mess the 1st mS of propagation in some box. I have been aligning a HEMP FR-8 with a Fountek short ribbon as superTW on an open frame with 4 6.5inchers in a big reflex box giving the foundation this week. Live feel. 30Hz in room 92dB 1W that one. OB FR from 250Hz-11kHz.
PS = polystyrene maybe?
itchy? to quote Salas earlier:
itchy?
The sch is the one back in this thread, rev 1 I think? See here:
itch rev1
The other thing is that I'm using the SSHV shunt from here for the HV supply:
SSHV latest version
The only difference is that I'm using an 9240 instead of 9610, no zeners, and a 1k trimmer for R8 all because that was what I had to hand.
I'm sure I posted a BOM for mouser back up the thread..... and the partridge transformers are on ebay.co.uk for about 100-110 euro incl postage.
Fran
itchy? to quote Salas earlier:
itchy?
The sch is the one back in this thread, rev 1 I think? See here:
itch rev1
The other thing is that I'm using the SSHV shunt from here for the HV supply:
SSHV latest version
The only difference is that I'm using an 9240 instead of 9610, no zeners, and a 1k trimmer for R8 all because that was what I had to hand.
I'm sure I posted a BOM for mouser back up the thread..... and the partridge transformers are on ebay.co.uk for about 100-110 euro incl postage.
Fran
I have been comparing the itch with the ono clone for the last couple of hours. They are very similar, but there seems to be a little more realism or maybe its deeper soundstage with the itch. I think what is really happening is that the ono might be a little more err, "veiled" and because of that, the resolution of the itch is noticeably higher. Things like the strum of a guitar, well is more distinct, the erverberations of each string, or drum hit etc is more distinct.
Now in fairness to the ono, there are a couple of fairly cheapo PP caps on the outputs, and I know that I can mod that circuit with a trimmer to cancel any DC offset and get rid of the caps, or else replace the output caps with better ones. That would make a fairly big difference I think.
It seems to me though that if I was starting out, the itch is an easier build, with easier to source parts and might even end up cheaper in the end (especially as my ono has the bipolar shunt supply). For example, I think there are SK389 on sale in the swap meet at the moment for €19 each.... I know mine uses a pair of sk170 instead.
Now hopefully I get to compare to the pearl with step ups soon too on the other TT. Its also spurred me on to try other caps in the ono.....
Fran
Now in fairness to the ono, there are a couple of fairly cheapo PP caps on the outputs, and I know that I can mod that circuit with a trimmer to cancel any DC offset and get rid of the caps, or else replace the output caps with better ones. That would make a fairly big difference I think.
It seems to me though that if I was starting out, the itch is an easier build, with easier to source parts and might even end up cheaper in the end (especially as my ono has the bipolar shunt supply). For example, I think there are SK389 on sale in the swap meet at the moment for €19 each.... I know mine uses a pair of sk170 instead.
Now hopefully I get to compare to the pearl with step ups soon too on the other TT. Its also spurred me on to try other caps in the ono.....
Fran
Thank you so much.
BTW... if you feel some lack of "body" and you would like to have more "presence", you can experiment by slightly lowering the 50k resistor. (bypass it with a 1,5M or a 1M).
I did not start this valve thing because I do not have a properly working scope"yet".
But I will surelly have a go at it sooner or latter.
Can you post some pics of your schroeder arm project ?
In order to be able to understand your comparisons, I would also like to know the ONO schematic.... Can you point me to the correct direction ?
BTW... if you feel some lack of "body" and you would like to have more "presence", you can experiment by slightly lowering the 50k resistor. (bypass it with a 1,5M or a 1M).
I did not start this valve thing because I do not have a properly working scope"yet".
But I will surelly have a go at it sooner or latter.
Can you post some pics of your schroeder arm project ?
In order to be able to understand your comparisons, I would also like to know the ONO schematic.... Can you point me to the correct direction ?
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Its not the same phono, there is the impedance of the mu follower factored in. You tend to see the Riaa network as an insulated entity across the two designs. That is wrong. There will be a set of different tweaks to taste for values or parts quality.
No lack of body...... sound full and good. It will be good to hear it in other systems though as the one with the quads is a fairly "full" sound - contrary to all you hear, its a really "rock" oriented system!
You don't need a scope... I've 2 of them and didn't use either for the build! A good DMM is far more useful. Its only if there's something wrong that you might need one. Theres loads of help on this thread (as you know!)
This is the ono clone:
shunt supply and one channel shown. I bought it pre-built from a member here, anadigit. If you can send me a pm with your email address, I can send you the ono service manual, its too big to attach here.
The main schroder thread is here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/13372-diy-schroeder-tonearm.html
and there are a few pics of mine from here: post 566
and post 580 and post 588 and post 594
The low slung counterweight is not the correct way to go btw.
Anyway, sorry for drifting OT!!
Fran
You don't need a scope... I've 2 of them and didn't use either for the build! A good DMM is far more useful. Its only if there's something wrong that you might need one. Theres loads of help on this thread (as you know!)
This is the ono clone:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
shunt supply and one channel shown. I bought it pre-built from a member here, anadigit. If you can send me a pm with your email address, I can send you the ono service manual, its too big to attach here.
The main schroder thread is here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/13372-diy-schroeder-tonearm.html
and there are a few pics of mine from here: post 566
and post 580 and post 588 and post 594
The low slung counterweight is not the correct way to go btw.
Anyway, sorry for drifting OT!!
Fran
1/gm. For 6N2 600R-1k. Each tube sample will differ a little, that is why is productive to tune the HF cap a bit in each build.
First pic shows the lenco arm and the itch in the background, second is the Teres with the air bearing arm (DCB1 is in the top oak fronted box underneath). The last one is the sachiko horn - adorned with the posters my daughter made to cheer jedward on in the Eurovision last night!!
Attachments
You can find its description in PassLabs website. Its a single die Jfet differential with Mosfet VAS and Mosfet output follower. Has a 4xK170 head amp for MC. Almost all gain stages are BJT cascoded and local capacitor multiplier filters are used in abundance. 20W burning. A seminal design by Wayne Colburn when presented, known for its low noise and excellent measurements package. What you would usually expect from Nelson's company in other words.
Hehe
I recently got rid of the second stage RC filter with very good results. Now both first and second stages run directly commanded by the shunt´s output impedance. (I left an RC on the output buffer so it has it´s own "juice" and does not starve the others).
Sound is much more clearer now and I wonder how it should be with a dedicated shunt for each stage.
No cap multipliers are needed here.
No mosfets either, so the circuit is simpler and cleaner.
The amplifier just modulates the PSU input, so I guess the best approach is using ultra simple amps with very fast and "tuned" low output impedance PSU´s.
I recently got rid of the second stage RC filter with very good results. Now both first and second stages run directly commanded by the shunt´s output impedance. (I left an RC on the output buffer so it has it´s own "juice" and does not starve the others).
Sound is much more clearer now and I wonder how it should be with a dedicated shunt for each stage.
No cap multipliers are needed here.
No mosfets either, so the circuit is simpler and cleaner.
The amplifier just modulates the PSU input, so I guess the best approach is using ultra simple amps with very fast and "tuned" low output impedance PSU´s.
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