This is old news.
It's been discussed many times on various car audio forums.
The author offers no proof to back up this high SPL claims, rather
just friends offering subjective performance "It sounds like 15 inch
woofers".
The majority of people on the forums don't believe his claims of
146db spl, but they asked him to have his system professionally
metered to offer proof.
Then, the author went to Gately, a car audio installer to have him
check out the system. Again, no proof by metering his system, just opinion based on listening.
There is no doubt the system performs well, but again the author
offers no proof to back up his 146db claims. Two six inch woofers
plus car cabin gain will sound pretty nice, but not high spl
with a 200w car amplifier.
One a side note, you might want to check out Nathan Munson
http://www.pro-creations.biz/natemagA.htm
http://www.termpro.com/asp/competitorstats.asp?Competitor_ID=13416&Season=0
Who shocked the industry with his 10" woofer being metered
at 169.8db. The design is kept secret, but people know that
he filled the empty voids in the car with cement, plus he uses
5000 watts of power and huge battery arrays and the woofer
typically gets blown everytime he runs the 'burps', ie, (1-2
seconds bursts of sound). These systems are not designed
to reproduce music, rather just a specific tone that yields the highest spl score.
It's been discussed many times on various car audio forums.
The author offers no proof to back up this high SPL claims, rather
just friends offering subjective performance "It sounds like 15 inch
woofers".
The majority of people on the forums don't believe his claims of
146db spl, but they asked him to have his system professionally
metered to offer proof.
Then, the author went to Gately, a car audio installer to have him
check out the system. Again, no proof by metering his system, just opinion based on listening.
There is no doubt the system performs well, but again the author
offers no proof to back up his 146db claims. Two six inch woofers
plus car cabin gain will sound pretty nice, but not high spl
with a 200w car amplifier.
One a side note, you might want to check out Nathan Munson
http://www.pro-creations.biz/natemagA.htm
http://www.termpro.com/asp/competitorstats.asp?Competitor_ID=13416&Season=0
Who shocked the industry with his 10" woofer being metered
at 169.8db. The design is kept secret, but people know that
he filled the empty voids in the car with cement, plus he uses
5000 watts of power and huge battery arrays and the woofer
typically gets blown everytime he runs the 'burps', ie, (1-2
seconds bursts of sound). These systems are not designed
to reproduce music, rather just a specific tone that yields the highest spl score.
I used to wonder why also, then I realized that it's competition
just like any sport. Drag racing seems silly too, design a car
that is not meant for normal driving. People win, get prize money,
get glory all in the name of spl. Seeing 50kw of car stereo
amplification at 'dB drags' seems common nowadays.
just like any sport. Drag racing seems silly too, design a car
that is not meant for normal driving. People win, get prize money,
get glory all in the name of spl. Seeing 50kw of car stereo
amplification at 'dB drags' seems common nowadays.
My question is, if it just a backloaded horn, then why does it seem to have such a small mouth? Or can horns make up for a small mouth with a large compression chamber?
The other speculation about the aperiodic thing: if it's aperiodic, then why would it seem that the tunnel adds to the output?
BTW, the other video (The Infamous Sixes) has a bass track in the intro section that has huge amounts of bass information.
The other speculation about the aperiodic thing: if it's aperiodic, then why would it seem that the tunnel adds to the output?
BTW, the other video (The Infamous Sixes) has a bass track in the intro section that has huge amounts of bass information.
"BTW, the other video (The Infamous Sixes) has a bass track in the intro section that has huge amounts of bass information."
I can easily make a video of my headphones laying on my desk and put a dub track in the background. At a point in the video you can easily tell when the superimposed track stops and the camera's mike takes over.
The design is looks to be a BLH but not definetly not optimal, an optimal horn would sound considerably better but it would take a damn large car to house a BLH tuned to, let's say, 25hz. I think they just comprimised.
I can easily make a video of my headphones laying on my desk and put a dub track in the background. At a point in the video you can easily tell when the superimposed track stops and the camera's mike takes over.
The design is looks to be a BLH but not definetly not optimal, an optimal horn would sound considerably better but it would take a damn large car to house a BLH tuned to, let's say, 25hz. I think they just comprimised.
personally I have never heard anything like port noise coming from a horn. I just think they did a bad job making the videos, mics built into personal cameras are not of very high quality, I could barely stand the wind noise that mike picked up when they brought it outside on the Gately vid.
after listening to the video one more time, i realized that there is NO way my sony laptop can reproduce 29hz whenever they play the test tone for 29hz (on either video), i can hear it... my laptop goes down to 200hz at BEST. even if they mixed that sound in just for effect, its still kinda sketchy.
whenever they play the test tone for 29hz (on either video), i can hear it... my laptop goes down to 200hz at BEST. even if they mixed that sound in just for effect, its still kinda sketchy.
I have a dual 12'' IB sub righ in my bedroom, It plays really loud but it doesn't get down to 29hz THAT easy, I mean the sub does, I dont. Actually I use my walls as an horn so the bass fill the room. Under 45hertz it still loud but I just cannot hear it well, as if my ears don't take it but I know my sub goes pretty far under 30hz, say +- 5hz , and with ease. So dont trust your ears.
And who needs clean bass under 29hz ??? you dont even make the difference between your sub and the truck passing in the street at this point!
, and with ease. So dont trust your ears. And who needs clean bass under 29hz ??? you dont even make the difference between your sub and the truck passing in the street at this point!
I do believe we can get good bass using decent 6 1/2 woofers in a car. Heres an exemple of what I do not trust. Sony claims that their SA-WD200 unit are able to :
reproduce 22 to 200hz,
plays 250watt,
with 2x 135mm woofs
sony sub
some might say its a damm good sub for its size, Ive not heard these things but Ive touched them once. I just dont believe this sub can get under 40, Im not sure about sound4 either.
reproduce 22 to 200hz,
plays 250watt,
with 2x 135mm woofs
sony sub
some might say its a damm good sub for its size, Ive not heard these things but Ive touched them once
. I just dont believe this sub can get under 40, Im not sure about sound4 either.Latley,
My name in car audio installs has it that my ultimate system composed of an 8" Vifa driver tapered into a large TL enclosure. VERY LARGE! BARELY ANY TRUNK, LARGE! Shakes car, you feel the bass while standing outside the vehicle and about twenty feet away. Big whoop! It's called BIG soud from a BIG box, anyone can do that. Except that I can prove that I'm hitting 100dB.+ (in driver seat) at relatively low distortion levels. {I'll need a camcorder for that though} That Vifa is of great quality, you never hear it hitting it's maximum, it just stops making more sound and creates difficult to hear distortions.
Now, if they can produce that kind of bass from a smaller enclosure (as I have mentioned my latest on this forum somewhere) then props to them!
My name in car audio installs has it that my ultimate system composed of an 8" Vifa driver tapered into a large TL enclosure. VERY LARGE! BARELY ANY TRUNK, LARGE! Shakes car, you feel the bass while standing outside the vehicle and about twenty feet away. Big whoop! It's called BIG soud from a BIG box, anyone can do that. Except that I can prove that I'm hitting 100dB.+ (in driver seat) at relatively low distortion levels. {I'll need a camcorder for that though} That Vifa is of great quality, you never hear it hitting it's maximum, it just stops making more sound and creates difficult to hear distortions.
Now, if they can produce that kind of bass from a smaller enclosure (as I have mentioned my latest on this forum somewhere) then props to them!
I dont know what will happen I'll stick my bandpass in a cars - Itsa 8" 75W RMS Visaton driver, my sub can make you feel that your hair move on your head , well not that much, but it can make your floor rattle (its concrete!) when you are 2 storeys below the sub.(my neiborgh lives 2 storeys below - he often tells me - I dont need a sub, just play your scast radio, so I can stream, after all your sub does all the bass ). When I play 30hz tone at max its nearly clogging my ears(thats where second port is tuned), it scares my - cabin gain at low frq...
, well not that much, but it can make your floor rattle (its concrete!) when you are 2 storeys below the sub.(my neiborgh lives 2 storeys below - he often tells me - I dont need a sub, just play your scast radio, so I can stream, after all your sub does all the bass ). When I play 30hz tone at max its nearly clogging my ears(thats where second port is tuned), it scares my - cabin gain at low frq...reply
I've found a few 8 inch drivers which would produce good bass for their size,and put them in a horn loaded enclosure they would give as good bass as a 12 inch in a ported enclosure.
Eminence Beta 8 225w rms [very powerful for an 8 inch]
38 oz magnet,2 inch voice coil,frequency range 50hz-4khz,
kapton former,cloth cone edge,paper cone,vented pole piece.
resonance freq 55hz, average SPL 1W/1M 97db,x max 3.0mm,
QTS 0.34,VD 65cc,Mms 14 grams,BL product 9.4 T-M.[Availible in both 4 0hm and 8 ohm versions]
or Audax AP210Z0 70w rms, 8 inch, freq range 20hz-5khz,29hz resonance freq,6 0hm,HDA[high definition Aerogel] cone,high temperature 1.5 inch voice coil,91.9db sensitivity 1w/1m,3.5mm x max,QTS 0.32,moving mass 23.67x10-3kg,
For the deepest bass use a six or quad chamber Bandpass enclosure.For the most hard hitting bass around 80hz use a scoop style enclosure[rear loaded horn enclosure].
I've found a few 8 inch drivers which would produce good bass for their size,and put them in a horn loaded enclosure they would give as good bass as a 12 inch in a ported enclosure.
Eminence Beta 8 225w rms [very powerful for an 8 inch]
38 oz magnet,2 inch voice coil,frequency range 50hz-4khz,
kapton former,cloth cone edge,paper cone,vented pole piece.
resonance freq 55hz, average SPL 1W/1M 97db,x max 3.0mm,
QTS 0.34,VD 65cc,Mms 14 grams,BL product 9.4 T-M.[Availible in both 4 0hm and 8 ohm versions]
or Audax AP210Z0 70w rms, 8 inch, freq range 20hz-5khz,29hz resonance freq,6 0hm,HDA[high definition Aerogel] cone,high temperature 1.5 inch voice coil,91.9db sensitivity 1w/1m,3.5mm x max,QTS 0.32,moving mass 23.67x10-3kg,
For the deepest bass use a six or quad chamber Bandpass enclosure.For the most hard hitting bass around 80hz use a scoop style enclosure[rear loaded horn enclosure].
I built a small box 15 years ago, dual 8" cheap woofers and
dual 10" cheap passive radiators. Power source is
about 200w driving the woofers.
The car was a hatchback so you get some good cabin gain when
the PR's reflect off the rear window (you get cabin gain anyways,
but the curvature resembles a horn, hehe).
The bass is pretty good, not as musical as non-PR, but it had
really good output, good for pop music. But, I don't go
around telling people I'm hitting 145db SPL. /hehe
dual 10" cheap passive radiators. Power source is
about 200w driving the woofers.
The car was a hatchback so you get some good cabin gain when
the PR's reflect off the rear window (you get cabin gain anyways,
but the curvature resembles a horn, hehe).
The bass is pretty good, not as musical as non-PR, but it had
really good output, good for pop music. But, I don't go
around telling people I'm hitting 145db SPL. /hehe
hype and truth
i wont beleive it till i see it with my own eyes
assuming
20db cabin gain,
and 90db efficient woofers,
and 23db amp..
thats only 133db assuming no losses (approx)
wheres the extra 13db come from?
the extra Db must come from the 'magic' enclosure
OR
it simply isnt true.,
because i cant see any evidence not biased from being located from their company,il assume its lies.
a bunch of comments from some buddies dont make it true
so much gossip,so little facts
and meanwhile they make $$$ on people who buy their subs ;-)
as for me and my basshorn,we shall make 130db in my house!
and then test it in a car to see what it does(probably not that effective)
www.geocities.com/sc00byd0159
i wont beleive it till i see it with my own eyes
assuming
20db cabin gain,
and 90db efficient woofers,
and 23db amp..
thats only 133db assuming no losses (approx)
wheres the extra 13db come from?
the extra Db must come from the 'magic' enclosure
OR
it simply isnt true.,
because i cant see any evidence not biased from being located from their company,il assume its lies.
a bunch of comments from some buddies dont make it true
so much gossip,so little facts
and meanwhile they make $$$ on people who buy their subs ;-)
as for me and my basshorn,we shall make 130db in my house!
and then test it in a car to see what it does(probably not that effective)
www.geocities.com/sc00byd0159
DAVOhorn said:
Hey David, I've been very interested for a while in using the 24" Precision Devices driver sealed for an AV/music sub, Can you tell me what volume you used in the enclosure and what you think of it's general accuracy and performance etc?.
I would imagine using two of them at full tilt would have the same effect as drinking a bottle of laxatives
Stew.
, wouldn't it be too slow ? and I hope you have good mains to compete with bass !- Status
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