If i didn't want to do much shopping & you are willing to push the budget a tad, the Fostex FT17 is nice... but you can really get away with less, you just need to find something efficient enuff... this (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=270-049) would be a good choice and this Foster is also decent (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=270-050) -- i have both. The Alnico version of the latter is really very good, but not efficient enuff (ideal for the 90-92 dB drivers)... you usually find that a little horn works best because it has similar dispersion character to the FR as it gets up there.
Depending on the tweeter you could play with XO anywhere between 5 & 15k. Common is to just add the tweeter to the top with a single cap. If the tweeter is too efficient then the XO can be moved up so that the high XO actually acts an attenuater (a buddy has a set of the big buck Fostex alnico tweeters on top of his 208eSRs and is XOing them up around 40k... by the time you get down to where you can hear them they match the output of the 208 just about right)
If the tweeter goes low enuff you can play with a true 2-way with a choke on the FE167. I'd recommend starting with just a cap XO. Actually i'd recommend living with just the FE167 by themselves (i would, of course, recommend phase plugs for them) and get a feel for how you find the top end before adding a tweeter
This illustrates one of my tenants of building a good speaker. A full-range makes the best midrange, you should be able to live with it by itself, but you can easily extend the system by adding to the top & bottom extremes... ir FR by itself, then add a super-tweeter, then an active woofer or 2 (if you start with 1 you can always add a 2nd later -- as long as the parts are still available). Note that when adding an active woofer, as long as you put somesort of high pass on the "sats" some of the biggest improvement comes in the midrange.
dave
Depending on the tweeter you could play with XO anywhere between 5 & 15k. Common is to just add the tweeter to the top with a single cap. If the tweeter is too efficient then the XO can be moved up so that the high XO actually acts an attenuater (a buddy has a set of the big buck Fostex alnico tweeters on top of his 208eSRs and is XOing them up around 40k... by the time you get down to where you can hear them they match the output of the 208 just about right)
If the tweeter goes low enuff you can play with a true 2-way with a choke on the FE167. I'd recommend starting with just a cap XO. Actually i'd recommend living with just the FE167 by themselves (i would, of course, recommend phase plugs for them) and get a feel for how you find the top end before adding a tweeter
This illustrates one of my tenants of building a good speaker. A full-range makes the best midrange, you should be able to live with it by itself, but you can easily extend the system by adding to the top & bottom extremes... ir FR by itself, then add a super-tweeter, then an active woofer or 2 (if you start with 1 you can always add a 2nd later -- as long as the parts are still available). Note that when adding an active woofer, as long as you put somesort of high pass on the "sats" some of the biggest improvement comes in the midrange.
dave
let's blow the budget
...and consider the hemp FR8c....
efficient, will provide sufficient bass on their own and don't need a tweeter on top.
A BiB with the Hemps would be pretty cool (not a bookshelf at all, but certainly a way to bigger bass.)
I spent a couple of months with my Hemps in a 19.3 litre box, and they kicked..did well on anything I threw at them. 93ish dB sensitive, sounded good with a 41Hz amp6 Basic, sounded good with my big ole' McCormack.
The sims I ran on them suggested thgat they wouldn't go very deep, but they bested mty Castle Durham 900s easily in bass and "unboxy' sound. A Onken style enclosure for those would be very cool . so say $300 CAD now...
...and consider the hemp FR8c....
efficient, will provide sufficient bass on their own and don't need a tweeter on top.
A BiB with the Hemps would be pretty cool (not a bookshelf at all, but certainly a way to bigger bass.)
I spent a couple of months with my Hemps in a 19.3 litre box, and they kicked..did well on anything I threw at them. 93ish dB sensitive, sounded good with a 41Hz amp6 Basic, sounded good with my big ole' McCormack.
The sims I ran on them suggested thgat they wouldn't go very deep, but they bested mty Castle Durham 900s easily in bass and "unboxy' sound. A Onken style enclosure for those would be very cool . so say $300 CAD now...
shallbehealed said:
SBH: currently Demetri exists on paper at Dave's site, and on the workshop floor here.
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/box-plans/demetri-1v0-map.pdf
No way this design would qualify for bookshelf, and certainly over the $200 budget by the time cabinet materials and drivers are paid for, but if they perform as well compared to their modeling as the Mileva with FE127, another home-run for Scott/Dave.
Of course, nothing less than enthusiastic endorsement would be expected from a faithful side-kick.
For $200 budget, did anyone mention the Golden Ratio Fonken design yet? To my ears these are not quite as refined in the lower mid-bass as the Classic Fonkens, but are far easier to build, and certainly bookshelf friendly.
BTW: there is another thread that has essentially gotten to the FE167e in a BR (recycled box)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102989
dave
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102989
dave
What about combining the BG Neo 3 with the 4Ohm version of the Eighteensound 430?
A bit beyond the desired 200$, but when you like Maggies a planar tweeter could be fine for you, and the 4Ohm is an advantage for the Tripath amp. http://www.eighteensound.it/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product&pid=243
A bit beyond the desired 200$, but when you like Maggies a planar tweeter could be fine for you, and the 4Ohm is an advantage for the Tripath amp. http://www.eighteensound.it/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product&pid=243
Okay, as much as I still want to build a pair of cryolites, a pair of FE167E is going to cost like half, be smaller, and tons more efficient to boot. I'm not going to add any tweeters (at least not yet). So...
1. Enclosure
2. Phase plugs
What do I do for either? FWIW, i've got a bunch of 3/4" 13 (or something) ply baltic birch sitting in the basement...
1. Enclosure
2. Phase plugs
What do I do for either? FWIW, i've got a bunch of 3/4" 13 (or something) ply baltic birch sitting in the basement...
spot25...
wouldn't ya know, Dave already has a set built .....
I would take his advice under strong consideration. Building the enclosure can be pretty easy, but if Dave already has plans, I'd go that route. The phase plugs should be a consideration. Maybe Dave could sell ya some 167s with phase plugs already attached
.
wouldn't ya know, Dave already has a set built .....
I would take his advice under strong consideration. Building the enclosure can be pretty easy, but if Dave already has plans, I'd go that route. The phase plugs should be a consideration. Maybe Dave could sell ya some 167s with phase plugs already attached
.I'll take plans if you got them. It'll take a little work out of downloading WinISD again
I'm curious about the phase plugs. I know a guy who has a lathe and a lot of skill with it, but don't they have to be a very precise design to help out? I have no problem with buying them, but it's an awfully good feeling to say "yeah, I built that"
I'm curious about the phase plugs. I know a guy who has a lathe and a lot of skill with it, but don't they have to be a very precise design to help out? I have no problem with buying them, but it's an awfully good feeling to say "yeah, I built that"
Re: spot25...
Stew - Dave draw, Chris build
(what's the trade-name of a trusty job-site chop-saw?
)
Spots- how big is your bookshelf? With a variety of enclosure types and sizes for the FE series fresh in my acoustic memory (and currently residing at casa Dlugos and chrisby) IMHO the GR Fonken with FE127 would probably deliver better overall performance in a compact enclosure than the 167, and is still a relatively easy build.
As Dave said, the 167 wants lots of breathing room to develop bass , but when allowed will certainly move more air than the 4" driver.
I just finished the first rough build of Demetri (Mileva's testosterone enabled bigger brother), and they definitely do not disappoint in the sensitivity and LF extension department. It's a bit soon for a final judgment, as things turned out the drivers aren't matched in terms of run-in time and the phase plugs are still on Dave's coffee table (or somewhere )
In terms of raw power, there certainly ain't no replacement for displacement, however the refinement and upper midrange of the FE127 is hard to beat for the money.
Nanook said:wouldn't ya know, Dave already has a set built .....
I would take his advice under strong consideration. Building the enclosure can be pretty easy, but if Dave already has plans, I'd go that route. The phase plugs should be a consideration. Maybe Dave could sell ya some 167s with phase plugs already attached
Stew - Dave draw, Chris build
(what's the trade-name of a trusty job-site chop-saw?
)Spots- how big is your bookshelf? With a variety of enclosure types and sizes for the FE series fresh in my acoustic memory (and currently residing at casa Dlugos and chrisby) IMHO the GR Fonken with FE127 would probably deliver better overall performance in a compact enclosure than the 167, and is still a relatively easy build.
As Dave said, the 167 wants lots of breathing room to develop bass , but when allowed will certainly move more air than the 4" driver.
I just finished the first rough build of Demetri (Mileva's testosterone enabled bigger brother), and they definitely do not disappoint in the sensitivity and LF extension department. It's a bit soon for a final judgment, as things turned out the drivers aren't matched in terms of run-in time and the phase plugs are still on Dave's coffee table (or somewhere )
In terms of raw power, there certainly ain't no replacement for displacement, however the refinement and upper midrange of the FE127 is hard to beat for the money.
chrisb...
er...was it this something like the attached image? oopps sorry for the confusion chris--I guess I view you and Dave as one (incorrectly of course).
spots25:, I only suggested getting phase plugs and drivers from planet10 because, if you are nervous peeling away the dust cap, he could do it for you..not that you or your friend couldn't manage to make the phase plugs, more so if concerned about cutting a brand new driver..
er...was it this something like the attached image?
oopps sorry for the confusion chris--I guess I view you and Dave as one (incorrectly of course).spots25:, I only suggested getting phase plugs and drivers from planet10 because, if you are nervous peeling away the dust cap, he could do it for you..not that you or your friend couldn't manage to make the phase plugs, more so if concerned about cutting a brand new driver..
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