Madisound sells the 206 for $88. x2 = $176 per pair, and that includes the recent price hike too. They were even cheaper a few weeks ago.
Decware sells the DFR-8 for $295 a pair. Following the math, 295 - 176 = $119. OzMikeH, if you can't find a pair of sockets for less than $119, something is very wrong.
Anyway, reading the Decware paper, the DFR-8 does NOT use sockets, but the previous model, the FE206EM did. I have a pair of the older ones. The differences outlined in the Decware site say the new plugs are plastic, but still similar to the socket style, the cone is treated (in a fashion different than the FE206EM) and an extra foam surround is used, in addition to the 206 surround.
I've never heard the DFR-8, but since it came out, lots of people are selling their old FE206EM's for the upgraded version. That's how I got mine, dirt cheap.
Decware sells the DFR-8 for $295 a pair. Following the math, 295 - 176 = $119. OzMikeH, if you can't find a pair of sockets for less than $119, something is very wrong.
Anyway, reading the Decware paper, the DFR-8 does NOT use sockets, but the previous model, the FE206EM did. I have a pair of the older ones. The differences outlined in the Decware site say the new plugs are plastic, but still similar to the socket style, the cone is treated (in a fashion different than the FE206EM) and an extra foam surround is used, in addition to the 206 surround.
I've never heard the DFR-8, but since it came out, lots of people are selling their old FE206EM's for the upgraded version. That's how I got mine, dirt cheap.
just a guy said:
I've not heard the Decware plugs (sockets) but a couple customers that have both his & mine say i'm not missing anything.
I'm a bit leary of the extra surround on the Decware modded 206... one of the pluses of the inverted surround is no obstruction sticking up to muck with the waves flowing over the edge of the cone.
Treating the cone can have a dramatic effect on the driver performance thou -- done right in the favour of the modded cone.
dave
I'd like to get the plugs (sockets) out to A/B test and see what they are really doing, and possibly experiment with other plugs. But they are stuck in there, and it's so awkward to get a grip on them, I'm afraid to apply the necessary force to get them out. I'm scared of damaging the whizzer, or worse.
I was trying to be diplomatic, I should have checked the fostex prices in other countries. they are $150 each here.
Good to see they aren't sockets any more, they would do funny things to the magnetic field around the voice coil.
For removing the plugs, try grippping the old steel socket types with a pair of vice-grips (locking pliers)
For the planet10 style I'm not sure, If you were about to do a test I'd tap a thread in the tip before installing them, then when testing them plug the hole with some putty. To remove you wind a screw in the tip a few turns and pull them out with some pliers.
I'd be interested to try this test. I have good ears but don't have enough meaningful listening experience to give you useable feedback.
I also dont want to drill holes in my nice new phase plugs.
Good to see they aren't sockets any more, they would do funny things to the magnetic field around the voice coil.
For removing the plugs, try grippping the old steel socket types with a pair of vice-grips (locking pliers)
For the planet10 style I'm not sure, If you were about to do a test I'd tap a thread in the tip before installing them, then when testing them plug the hole with some putty. To remove you wind a screw in the tip a few turns and pull them out with some pliers.
I'd be interested to try this test. I have good ears but don't have enough meaningful listening experience to give you useable feedback.
I also dont want to drill holes in my nice new phase plugs.
Hi 206ians! i think this is probably a good place to ask about this since the 208 cabinet has been discussed a bit here.
If i build the FE208E cabinet can i use a formed curve instead of the "steps" formed from gluing a bunch of pieces together? (the front of the inside of the horn, where you can see) I think it would look a lot nicer and probably work better as well.
If i did that should the surface of the curve be on the median of the "steps" or the outside edges?
best regards
N7
If i build the FE208E cabinet can i use a formed curve instead of the "steps" formed from gluing a bunch of pieces together? (the front of the inside of the horn, where you can see) I think it would look a lot nicer and probably work better as well.
If i did that should the surface of the curve be on the median of the "steps" or the outside edges?
best regards
N7
Hello,
Phase plug:
wikipedia
It thus quite is in the range of the possibility that manufacturers phase Plugs of second kind begin, without it comes to clear improvements, which are provable by measurements. It would be this then a kind mode feature. (google translate)
The problem of most 8" FR like 206, AN, Lowther
is the area up to ~800 Hz, you can´t get it with a single bass horn, that why I constructed the SAXOPHON
The housing is the problem not the highs.
Phase plug:
wikipedia
It thus quite is in the range of the possibility that manufacturers phase Plugs of second kind begin, without it comes to clear improvements, which are provable by measurements. It would be this then a kind mode feature. (google translate)
The problem of most 8" FR like 206, AN, Lowther
is the area up to ~800 Hz, you can´t get it with a single bass horn, that why I constructed the SAXOPHON
The housing is the problem not the highs.
Attachments
No argument that housings are important, or that your Saxophon is a fine design, although some phase plugs like Dave's do make measureable improvements, not least of which in filling the hollow pole-piece, which rings at ~3.5KHz in the case of the FE206E if memory serves (and also smooths out the midrange response)... but I've asked this before: why the 800Hz?
Sticking with the FE206E as an example, it begins to roll-off at ~220Hz, so it clearly needs help below that point. And if you factor baffle-step in, there is much to be said for allowing the horns to run higher to balance things out, though this needs to be very carefully engineered & tweaked. The driver has an inductive rise, but that doesn't begin until 1.5KHz. So if you boost everything below 800Hz, you'll then have a slump in the response between 800Hz -1.5KHz where it begins a slow rise before finally peaking at 11KHz, and the only enclosure that has much potential to do anything about that is a front horn.
Sticking with the FE206E as an example, it begins to roll-off at ~220Hz, so it clearly needs help below that point. And if you factor baffle-step in, there is much to be said for allowing the horns to run higher to balance things out, though this needs to be very carefully engineered & tweaked. The driver has an inductive rise, but that doesn't begin until 1.5KHz. So if you boost everything below 800Hz, you'll then have a slump in the response between 800Hz -1.5KHz where it begins a slow rise before finally peaking at 11KHz, and the only enclosure that has much potential to do anything about that is a front horn.
Hello,
with baffle step and horn roll off it is ~800 Hz.
A horn can made max. 3 oktaves, than it sounds
bad because the wave get infinte to the horn dimensions.
20-700 Hz are 5 oktave, you need the funnel constante
of 20 Hz to get 40 Hz.
under construction a solo-Sax with AN 8" with
two horns on one driver like SCHALMEI but for bass and
mids. I win 25 L volume ~175 L
with baffle step and horn roll off it is ~800 Hz.
A horn can made max. 3 oktaves, than it sounds
bad because the wave get infinte to the horn dimensions.
20-700 Hz are 5 oktave, you need the funnel constante
of 20 Hz to get 40 Hz.
under construction a solo-Sax with AN 8" with
two horns on one driver like SCHALMEI but for bass and
mids. I win 25 L volume ~175 L
Steps = diffusion for short wavelengths
steps = same as a curve for longer wavelengths.
the sharp edges and steps significantly reduce the higher frequencies from coming out the horn.
so putting curves in there and routering off the sharp edges is actually a bad thing.
(in response to a post way back on page 17, I'm a bit slow today...)
steps = same as a curve for longer wavelengths.
the sharp edges and steps significantly reduce the higher frequencies from coming out the horn.
so putting curves in there and routering off the sharp edges is actually a bad thing.
(in response to a post way back on page 17, I'm a bit slow today...)
Yup. Some horns, like e.g. the Hedlund, need to go as high as possible, so they need the rounded bends. We use the horn mouth rather like the bass driver in a F.A.S.T. system, so it would be nonsense. Different kettle of fish, or (as a German talking to an Aussie) different keg of beer.
Pit
Pit
Agreed. That said, Ron has pointed out, quite rightly, that for energy to be transfered with minimal losses, you need smooth surfaces and radii. Whether you actually want that level of efficiency is of course another matter. In some designs you do, in others, perhaps not, and in these cabinets the stepped expansion greatly assists in attenuating the unwanted energy, particularly at higher frequencies. So it's best not to smooth them off, or make a rounded version, because otherwise it'll run too high up & need some throat damping. Harder to build too.
I still wonder though if the technical operation of a stepped design is actually analogous to a horn per se. The soundwave propogating from the rear of a driver mounted in a horn or hybrid horn should 'see' a continual expansion, yet in these designs it does not. What I suspect occurs is that the standing waves generated activates the 1/2 wavelength resonance of the first tube, which in turn excites the 1/2 wave resonance of the next sized tube, and so on to the mouth. I could be wrong -Ron, Martin, Greg (and our other acoustic experts), any thoughts on this?
I still wonder though if the technical operation of a stepped design is actually analogous to a horn per se. The soundwave propogating from the rear of a driver mounted in a horn or hybrid horn should 'see' a continual expansion, yet in these designs it does not. What I suspect occurs is that the standing waves generated activates the 1/2 wavelength resonance of the first tube, which in turn excites the 1/2 wave resonance of the next sized tube, and so on to the mouth. I could be wrong -Ron, Martin, Greg (and our other acoustic experts), any thoughts on this?
scottmoose
Which frequency range exist a baffle step for a 8" FR,
above 1 kHz the driver can´t "see" the baffle,
because I take small baffles, there is "no" effect
below 1 kHz.
A bass horn which is driven over 150 Hz sounds
horn coloured. Take an A-B comparison.
I´ve forgot something:
the data of Fostex made with a standart norm baffle,
that´s different from a 20-40 cm wide horn. (my 800 Hz opinion)
Which frequency range exist a baffle step for a 8" FR,
above 1 kHz the driver can´t "see" the baffle,
because I take small baffles, there is "no" effect
below 1 kHz.
A bass horn which is driven over 150 Hz sounds
horn coloured. Take an A-B comparison.
I´ve forgot something:
the data of Fostex made with a standart norm baffle,
that´s different from a 20-40 cm wide horn. (my 800 Hz opinion)
Ah -I see, matter of approach. Fair play. Not sure I entirely agree that a horn run over 150Hz automatically sounds 'coloured' per se -many front-loaded horns do not, particularly those designed by Dr Bruce Edgar (although I agree that probably far more actually do). I suspect what might be more of an issue is directionality, phase and time delay which are not so easy to avoid. That's one of the reasons I've spent a while looking into double mouth designs as they potentially offer some real advantages in this. At the price of being extremely large of course. ;-)
Scott,
just a gut feeling again ( which means I don't have to explain an idea I have but don't really understand myself)...imagine each step as a distinct line producing a distinct standing wave. They would be close enough to each other in wavelength to interact with each other quite effectively, but perhaps apart enough in phase to clobber each other?
This is an egg I'll have to sit on for some time; at the moment I can't even explain to myself what the eff I'm thinking.
Pit
just a gut feeling again ( which means I don't have to explain an idea I have but don't really understand myself)...imagine each step as a distinct line producing a distinct standing wave. They would be close enough to each other in wavelength to interact with each other quite effectively, but perhaps apart enough in phase to clobber each other?
This is an egg I'll have to sit on for some time; at the moment I can't even explain to myself what the eff I'm thinking.
Pit- Status
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