I know these caps aren't broken in, if they even need it, but they sound great. It has clarity without any of the harshness that usually comes with it. I see that they sell 0.1uf value as well. Anyone know a way to find the manufacturer of these caps? They're made in Taiwan, and I'd love to get them in more values for cheap.
I have used these RS caps and like them. Just forgot all about them in the sea of other film caps.
Thanks Dave for mentioning them. If I get a chance I'll compare them to the Obbligoto and the Panasonic metal film caps. The Panasonic film caps are about $2.50 each and not bad, but not terrific either.
BTW, I have some 2.5uF 120VAC caps that look a lot like the Rat Shack caps. Made by Intercap http://www.icc107.com/intercap_productover.cfm which is were I suspect Rat Shack gets a lot of their caps.
Thanks Dave for mentioning them. If I get a chance I'll compare them to the Obbligoto and the Panasonic metal film caps. The Panasonic film caps are about $2.50 each and not bad, but not terrific either.
BTW, I have some 2.5uF 120VAC caps that look a lot like the Rat Shack caps. Made by Intercap http://www.icc107.com/intercap_productover.cfm which is were I suspect Rat Shack gets a lot of their caps.
OK, just read back thru a few posts. (I've been away at RMAF)
I still favor the Obbligato caps over the Auricaps, but not by much. Trouble is, the Obbs don't fit well in most boxes.
After the show was over we switched over to one of my old Octopus amps form the Mardis mod Trends we had been running all weekend. Everyone immediately agreed it was an improvement.
Not a really fair test. Different chip, different power supply. But I know the sound of the Obbs and the Auris pretty well - and that was a big part of it. The Obbs in the Octopus amp had much more space, a richer sound. I think a lot of it will have to do with the speaker and the room, as well as your personal preferences.
Best bet is to grab a few that DaveT has given top marks and try them yourself.
FYI - details for the unfair comparison:
Mardis mod Trends
Octopus Amp
I still favor the Obbligato caps over the Auricaps, but not by much. Trouble is, the Obbs don't fit well in most boxes.
After the show was over we switched over to one of my old Octopus amps form the Mardis mod Trends we had been running all weekend. Everyone immediately agreed it was an improvement.
Not a really fair test. Different chip, different power supply. But I know the sound of the Obbs and the Auris pretty well - and that was a big part of it. The Obbs in the Octopus amp had much more space, a richer sound. I think a lot of it will have to do with the speaker and the room, as well as your personal preferences.
Best bet is to grab a few that DaveT has given top marks and try them yourself.
FYI - details for the unfair comparison:
Mardis mod Trends
* TA2024 amp chip
* Battery power. 8AH SLA + filter.
* Auricap input caps
* 2x2400uF tank caps. Panasonic FM series
Octopus Amp
*TA2020 chip
*Onboard linear regulated power supply
*Obbligato film in oil input caps
*1X2700uF tank cap (FM) + 10000uF Gold tune.
dweekie said:
The cap that is on the left in your photo are like the four I have. I purchased 1 cap over a year ago and then purchased the other three about two months ago. Having 1 on hand is what gave me the idea to test them. I guess I lucked out in that they appear to all be the same.
The caps had 600+ hours burn in time on them when they were tested.
For those that prefer more bass or presence, you may opt to add yet another cap to each side (3 per side) for a total of 3.0 MFD and a cost of $4.77(USD) per side.
I will include RS caps in the capacitor bypass test which is forthcoming.
If I had any insight I would have purchased some RS stock before posting my findings.
Duh!Is there anything special one has to do, to not get totally ignored in this forum?
I feel like I broke into an elite circle that does not want to be disturbed by any outsider.
I let you guys know that I plan a cap test with BlackGates vs. auricaps and there is not even anyone responding.
At least some reply like:
"Great I wonder which is better or we did this already".
Would have been great.
The I suggested to try bypassing caps with silver micas and again no response.
Can you please let me know the „worthy to be considered process“
Greets,
Klaus
I feel like I broke into an elite circle that does not want to be disturbed by any outsider.
I let you guys know that I plan a cap test with BlackGates vs. auricaps and there is not even anyone responding.
At least some reply like:
"Great I wonder which is better or we did this already".
Would have been great.
The I suggested to try bypassing caps with silver micas and again no response.
Can you please let me know the „worthy to be considered process“
Greets,
Klaus
Hi Klaus,
Please don't feel that that you are being ignored. Unfortunately, I find that emotional needs (and all communication has an emotional element) aren't part of the equation throughout this web-site. But maybe that is necessary to keep it more concise on the subject matter and science. Also, when a subject is full stride in the middle of a test, you might get no response until past that point or not at all because everyone is onto another point immediately after. Later someone new to the thread will scan and see your post and say something because it is something they relate to. This always happens to me two weeks later.
I think maybe another reason might also be that Dave did a very nice comparison of the two and nothing needs to be said until you come back with your results to concur or disagree or add something different. If you want to do it for the experience or because your application is different (maybe for a Preamp, Tuner, DAC, etc.) I can see double checking. Or because you have chosen these two caps (because of what you read here) and want to choose which one sounds better to your ears in your amp, then this is the perfect procedure. And again, we would love to hear your results.
Now about the bypassing caps, that is a GREAT idea and I am surely interested, but that should be another thread after we beat this one to death. Why? Because this info will be the foundation to that one. Ultimately, people will be deciding between finding the right one cap here or finding the right one cap here and bypassing it with the right one cap there. Two different camps and the combinations in camp two are a huge amount. I am a purist about two cahnnel audio and wonder if I will ultimately be a purist about a one cap value for coupling caps too. I want to understand more about the impact and trade offs. So that whloe subject deserves a huge thread too (and there have been some already too).
So, I am no moderator or authority here. I am only speaking of my experience and opinion hoping to help you know that we have all experienced the same thing. This just happens and isn't ever directed AT anybody. Sometimes when I come back at it from another angle, that usually helps too. So keep the letters and post cards coming and please don't get discouraged! Stay involved and when this transitions to the bypass caps stage, I expect you will be one of the drivers. We all learn so much from these big, long threads because we beat them to death and cover a huge amount of possibilities!
I hope this helps!
PS Michael didn't even make a comment on my Burn in Crab using his schematic, but so what, after I burn in my caps, I will send it to Hawaii to bite him in the middle of the night when he is sleeping. Then he will use Dave's Stone Tablet to crush it and the comment I will get, won't be nice anyway! So see, you aren't alone and be careful what you ask for! LOL
Regards//Keith
Please don't feel that that you are being ignored. Unfortunately, I find that emotional needs (and all communication has an emotional element) aren't part of the equation throughout this web-site. But maybe that is necessary to keep it more concise on the subject matter and science. Also, when a subject is full stride in the middle of a test, you might get no response until past that point or not at all because everyone is onto another point immediately after. Later someone new to the thread will scan and see your post and say something because it is something they relate to. This always happens to me two weeks later.
I think maybe another reason might also be that Dave did a very nice comparison of the two and nothing needs to be said until you come back with your results to concur or disagree or add something different. If you want to do it for the experience or because your application is different (maybe for a Preamp, Tuner, DAC, etc.) I can see double checking. Or because you have chosen these two caps (because of what you read here) and want to choose which one sounds better to your ears in your amp, then this is the perfect procedure. And again, we would love to hear your results.
Now about the bypassing caps, that is a GREAT idea and I am surely interested, but that should be another thread after we beat this one to death. Why? Because this info will be the foundation to that one. Ultimately, people will be deciding between finding the right one cap here or finding the right one cap here and bypassing it with the right one cap there. Two different camps and the combinations in camp two are a huge amount. I am a purist about two cahnnel audio and wonder if I will ultimately be a purist about a one cap value for coupling caps too. I want to understand more about the impact and trade offs. So that whloe subject deserves a huge thread too (and there have been some already too).
So, I am no moderator or authority here. I am only speaking of my experience and opinion hoping to help you know that we have all experienced the same thing. This just happens and isn't ever directed AT anybody. Sometimes when I come back at it from another angle, that usually helps too. So keep the letters and post cards coming and please don't get discouraged! Stay involved and when this transitions to the bypass caps stage, I expect you will be one of the drivers. We all learn so much from these big, long threads because we beat them to death and cover a huge amount of possibilities!
I hope this helps!
PS Michael didn't even make a comment on my Burn in Crab using his schematic, but so what, after I burn in my caps, I will send it to Hawaii to bite him in the middle of the night when he is sleeping. Then he will use Dave's Stone Tablet to crush it and the comment I will get, won't be nice anyway! So see, you aren't alone and be careful what you ask for! LOL
Regards//Keith
Klaus, just after reading your post, I searched on ebay for some Russian silver micas, but the quantities were too much for me to try. I don't always respond to every idea, but I often look for information on it. Your ideas are always appreciated. Your soundcard mod has been great so far. Have you tried resistorless output on those yet? I was waiting on results of that test from you (sorry for the bit of off topic discussion).
Silver Mica Bypass Caps Response
Klaus,
I would like to echo Kieth's response regarding mica bypass caps. It was not my intent to ignore you. The test that I have performed thus far are based on capacitors I had on-hand or were sent to me. I have some silver micas around, but I have no idea what values they may be.
I would encourage you to conduct your test and let us know your results. Early on I asked this thread to give me input on what should be considered for the test, and I got no response. Granted, I felt like I was on an island, but I had already committed to do these tests for my own gratification. So I pushed on.
Any number of readers of this thread have asked that I consider this or that capacitor. I am willing to test any and all of them, but I am not going to go out of my way to procure capacitors to satisfy the whims of the DIY community. If I did I suspect I would never do anything else.
This seemed like a declarative statement and did not require a response. I was awaiting to read the results of your test.
Again, You made a declarative statement. I appreciate that you think we should consider trying bypassing with silver micas, and I am willing to do so when I get to conducting bypass testing. However, I would like to hear more about your testing. I am willing to try various testing topologies, but this is my hobby not my vocation. As I said earlier, I am testing what I have on-hand.
It reads that you thought I should have either tested the silver micas or commented on your "highs improving and prat". I have attempted to provide to the readers with the parts of my test bed and the music I am listening to such that you may be able to reproduce my test. To me "prat" does not provide me with a lot of information. I have read audio journals where this term is used, but it does nothing for me, for others it may be more than enough.
I, may well be, too, verbose in attempting to describe what I am hearing, but this is a process that is still under development. I added measurements of film capacitors based on someone's comment. Note this didn't require anything more of me than using my LCR meter. If I did not already own the meter the measurement's would not have been included. I also refined the links to the capacitor under test (based on a typo on my part) due to a number of postings about this. So, I have attempted to incorporate comments that are not causing me to exert excessive energies or capital.
Yes, you did break in; and now that you are here - we may consider ourselves an elite circle. Up until now we were just a mob - nothing as well organized as a circle.
I have two more film capacitors to test which should arrive next week based on a suggestion from one of the posters, here. I will, or you may start a separate thread for the bypass capacitor test.
Itrust that I have addressed all of your concerns.
Radian said:Is there anything special one has to do, to not get totally ignored in this forum?
I feel like I broke into an elite circle that does not want to be disturbed by any outsider.
I let you guys know that I plan a cap test with BlackGates vs. auricaps and there is not even anyone responding.
At least some reply like:
"Great I wonder which is better or we did this already".
Would have been great.
The I suggested to try bypassing caps with silver micas and again no response.
Can you please let me know the „worthy to be considered process“
Klaus,
I would like to echo Kieth's response regarding mica bypass caps. It was not my intent to ignore you. The test that I have performed thus far are based on capacitors I had on-hand or were sent to me. I have some silver micas around, but I have no idea what values they may be.
I would encourage you to conduct your test and let us know your results. Early on I asked this thread to give me input on what should be considered for the test, and I got no response. Granted, I felt like I was on an island, but I had already committed to do these tests for my own gratification. So I pushed on.
Any number of readers of this thread have asked that I consider this or that capacitor. I am willing to test any and all of them, but I am not going to go out of my way to procure capacitors to satisfy the whims of the DIY community. If I did I suspect I would never do anything else.
Radian said:
This seemed like a declarative statement and did not require a response. I was awaiting to read the results of your test.
Again, You made a declarative statement. I appreciate that you think we should consider trying bypassing with silver micas, and I am willing to do so when I get to conducting bypass testing. However, I would like to hear more about your testing. I am willing to try various testing topologies, but this is my hobby not my vocation. As I said earlier, I am testing what I have on-hand.
It reads that you thought I should have either tested the silver micas or commented on your "highs improving and prat". I have attempted to provide to the readers with the parts of my test bed and the music I am listening to such that you may be able to reproduce my test. To me "prat" does not provide me with a lot of information. I have read audio journals where this term is used, but it does nothing for me, for others it may be more than enough.
I, may well be, too, verbose in attempting to describe what I am hearing, but this is a process that is still under development. I added measurements of film capacitors based on someone's comment. Note this didn't require anything more of me than using my LCR meter. If I did not already own the meter the measurement's would not have been included. I also refined the links to the capacitor under test (based on a typo on my part) due to a number of postings about this. So, I have attempted to incorporate comments that are not causing me to exert excessive energies or capital.
Yes, you did break in; and now that you are here - we may consider ourselves an elite circle. Up until now we were just a mob - nothing as well organized as a circle.
I have two more film capacitors to test which should arrive next week based on a suggestion from one of the posters, here. I will, or you may start a separate thread for the bypass capacitor test.
Itrust that I have addressed all of your concerns.
Sorry guys,
it was not my intention to sound offended. I was just wondering if I did something wrong.
dweekie,
I ran the card without resistors, but I could not detect a big change in sound compared to the 500 ohm resistors.
The cap test has to wait until I figured out why the Tent-Clock is not cooperating with my soundcard. A simple swap with the old crystal seems not to work. The computer does not even boot anymore with the Tent-clock in place.
It's sad that we don't have a computer audio forum here, as it is certainly a high quality playback option.
Greets,
Klaus
it was not my intention to sound offended. I was just wondering if I did something wrong.
dweekie,
I ran the card without resistors, but I could not detect a big change in sound compared to the 500 ohm resistors.
The cap test has to wait until I figured out why the Tent-Clock is not cooperating with my soundcard. A simple swap with the old crystal seems not to work. The computer does not even boot anymore with the Tent-clock in place.
It's sad that we don't have a computer audio forum here, as it is certainly a high quality playback option.
Greets,
Klaus
Computer Concerns
You may wish to post and take a look at PC Audio Forum. You may find some help for you clock problem there.
Welcome to the "circle".
You may wish to post and take a look at PC Audio Forum. You may find some help for you clock problem there.
Welcome to the "circle".
Stone Tablet Burn-in Circuit
This is a photo of my Stone Tablet implementation of Panomaniac's burn-in circuit. At the very top is a printout of the circuit. the components are laid out virtually the way the schematic is drawn.
The caps on the tablet are the Flourinerts that will be used for the bypass test. The RCAs are to the left and I use terminal strips with bus strips so I may burn in a number of caps at a time.
It is crude down and dirty, kind of stone age, utilitarian, and not an elegant implementation in the least. It just gets the job done.
Some crabs and lesser T-Amps need to watch out.
This is a photo of my Stone Tablet implementation of Panomaniac's burn-in circuit. At the very top is a printout of the circuit. the components are laid out virtually the way the schematic is drawn.
The caps on the tablet are the Flourinerts that will be used for the bypass test. The RCAs are to the left and I use terminal strips with bus strips so I may burn in a number of caps at a time.
It is crude down and dirty, kind of stone age, utilitarian, and not an elegant implementation in the least. It just gets the job done.
Some crabs and lesser T-Amps need to watch out.
Bypass Caps
As a rule you should go 10% of the value of the xcap being bupassed. i,e 10 MFD cap would be bypassed with a 1 MFD cap; the 1 MFD cap would be bypassed with a 0.1 MFD cap; and the 0.1 would be bypassed by a 0.01 MFD cap.
That is the rule of thumb. I have had great results with 0.1 mFD and smaller. Each additional bypass cap seems to make a difference.
I am currently testing 2 film caps and then I will conduct test on bypass caps. I will start with 0.1 MFD caps bypassing input coupling caps ranging from 2.0 MFD to 3.3 MFD. So the rule of thumb is not ggoing to be rigidly appliedx for my forthcoming test.
Let us know ewhat you hear.
As a rule you should go 10% of the value of the xcap being bupassed. i,e 10 MFD cap would be bypassed with a 1 MFD cap; the 1 MFD cap would be bypassed with a 0.1 MFD cap; and the 0.1 would be bypassed by a 0.01 MFD cap.
That is the rule of thumb. I have had great results with 0.1 mFD and smaller. Each additional bypass cap seems to make a difference.
I am currently testing 2 film caps and then I will conduct test on bypass caps. I will start with 0.1 MFD caps bypassing input coupling caps ranging from 2.0 MFD to 3.3 MFD. So the rule of thumb is not ggoing to be rigidly appliedx for my forthcoming test.
Let us know ewhat you hear.
Hi All,
Do you guys want to have this thread include the bypass caps info too or should we wait a couple of days until Dave has finished the last caps he is testing and start a new thread about the bypassing?
I think starting a new thread is a good idea because the search engine here isn't too good and having these threads separated may make it easier for people researching one or the other!
What do you all think?
Regards//Keith
Do you guys want to have this thread include the bypass caps info too or should we wait a couple of days until Dave has finished the last caps he is testing and start a new thread about the bypassing?
I think starting a new thread is a good idea because the search engine here isn't too good and having these threads separated may make it easier for people researching one or the other!
What do you all think?
Regards//Keith
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