Hi Dave,
You have good ears and the time you spend putting it to words is not a waste of time. Here is a place that will offer validation!
Have you seen this web-site:
http://www.ecp.cc/cap-notes.html
Were you able to get the Wima samples from Inter-Technical?
Thanks!
Regards//Keith
You have good ears and the time you spend putting it to words is not a waste of time. Here is a place that will offer validation!
Have you seen this web-site:
http://www.ecp.cc/cap-notes.html
Were you able to get the Wima samples from Inter-Technical?
Thanks!
Regards//Keith
KP11520 said:
The circuit is very simple. I use a FM tumer for the signal source. Below is the Mardis burn-in circuit.
The Film caps I am testing with the exception of the MKTs will have better than 600 hours burn-in time on them. I noted the MKTs seemed to get better the more I played them. I suspect they will get better with more time.
Hey Dave,
Thank you!
Do you use a 1.5 volt or 9 volt battery or a DC power supply @ how much voltage? How long do batteries last if thats what you use?
Also for the signal, analog RCA output from an FM Tuner?
I guess this is how you "burn in" up to 4 Caps at the same time! That's exactly how many I want to do!
I'll go find a small proto/breadboard so I don't have to solder any of the leads from the Caps!
Great!
Regards//Keith
Thank you!
Do you use a 1.5 volt or 9 volt battery or a DC power supply @ how much voltage? How long do batteries last if thats what you use?
Also for the signal, analog RCA output from an FM Tuner?
I guess this is how you "burn in" up to 4 Caps at the same time! That's exactly how many I want to do!
I'll go find a small proto/breadboard so I don't have to solder any of the leads from the Caps!
Great!
Regards//Keith
Well Dave, those EPCOS MKT sound like a great find. Excuse the pun.
From you description, I'd call them "neutral - without loss of detail."
As for the burn-in circuit, it's simple. Put as many caps in it as you like. The idea is to mimic the input circuit of the T-Amps. That's what the battery is for - DC bias. About 3V (2 cells) should be ideal, but as long as it's 2V or more, it shouldn't matter much. The 22uF cap blocks the DC back into the radio.
The radio is just a simple source of line level musical signal. Again, just meant to mimic the input of an amp. I use the earphone jack, but the RCA should do just as well. Don't forget the resistor! Otherwise you'll have an AC short. Any value from 10-50K will work.
From you description, I'd call them "neutral - without loss of detail."
As for the burn-in circuit, it's simple. Put as many caps in it as you like. The idea is to mimic the input circuit of the T-Amps. That's what the battery is for - DC bias. About 3V (2 cells) should be ideal, but as long as it's 2V or more, it shouldn't matter much. The 22uF cap blocks the DC back into the radio.
The radio is just a simple source of line level musical signal. Again, just meant to mimic the input of an amp. I use the earphone jack, but the RCA should do just as well. Don't forget the resistor! Otherwise you'll have an AC short. Any value from 10-50K will work.
Re: EPCOS MKT Test Result
Your description of what the Epcos MKT caps sound like jives with what I've heard as well. Great sound at a fraction of the size and price of boutique caps is what they'll get you. The Auricaps were slightly better to my ears but their price is pretty hard to swallow. After all is said and done you should compare your favorite cap to no cap (DC coupled) and see which you like better. I've already made up my mind
Davet said:
Your description of what the Epcos MKT caps sound like jives with what I've heard as well. Great sound at a fraction of the size and price of boutique caps is what they'll get you. The Auricaps were slightly better to my ears but their price is pretty hard to swallow. After all is said and done you should compare your favorite cap to no cap (DC coupled) and see which you like better. I've already made up my mind
Re: Re: EPCOS MKT Test Result
Hi Brian,
Do you have a link to a source for the EPCOS MKT 2.2-MFD capacitors?
Thanks,
Roy
BWRX said:
Your description of what the Epcos MKT caps sound like jives with what I've heard as well. Great sound at a fraction of the size and price of boutique caps is what they'll get you. The Auricaps were slightly better to my ears but their price is pretty hard to swallow. After all is said and done you should compare your favorite cap to no cap (DC coupled) and see which you like better. I've already made up my mind
Hi Brian,
Do you have a link to a source for the EPCOS MKT 2.2-MFD capacitors?
Thanks,
Roy
Re: Re: EPCOS MKT Test Result
The correct DigiKey part # is 495-1127-ND not HD.
--Roy:
Here is the link:http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=495-1127-ND
I think I will get the 3.3uf version so that perhaps there will be more body/texture to the sound and since they are so small anyway.
Davet said:
The correct DigiKey part # is 495-1127-ND not HD.
--Roy:
Here is the link:http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=495-1127-ND
I think I will get the 3.3uf version so that perhaps there will be more body/texture to the sound and since they are so small anyway.
Re: Re: Re: EPCOS MKT Test Result
That's the one. It's quite a bit more expensive from Farnell, although still much less than most boutique caps.
There may be 2.2uF MKT's from other manufacturers that sound fine too. I decided to try the one from Epcos way back when because it was the cheapest and had dimensions similar to an electrolytic cap of the same capacitance. You can look for 2.2uF MKP's (polypropylene film) of the same voltage but they will be a bit larger physically than MKT's (polyester film).
toolkit said:
rajacat said:
That's the one. It's quite a bit more expensive from Farnell, although still much less than most boutique caps.
There may be 2.2uF MKT's from other manufacturers that sound fine too. I decided to try the one from Epcos way back when because it was the cheapest and had dimensions similar to an electrolytic cap of the same capacitance. You can look for 2.2uF MKP's (polypropylene film) of the same voltage but they will be a bit larger physically than MKT's (polyester film).
Hi All,
Dave and Michael,
I have all the parts and I am building the Burn in Circuit. I have a 4 AA battery holder because I intend to use 6 volts. The output from the op amp to the output cap is 6 volts. This is OK? I shouldn't have to change the Cap or resistor value at this voltage , should I?
Thanks for the help!
It's about time I made something that actually did some work around here!
Regards//Keith
Dave and Michael,
I have all the parts and I am building the Burn in Circuit. I have a 4 AA battery holder because I intend to use 6 volts. The output from the op amp to the output cap is 6 volts. This is OK? I shouldn't have to change the Cap or resistor value at this voltage , should I?
Thanks for the help!
It's about time I made something that actually did some work around here!
Regards//Keith
Circuit Response
You should not have to do anything else. I use 6 volts as well. There is negligible voltage drain on the batteries during the burn in process.
I used barrier strips with bus strips/bars to connect the caps. You could use wire to tie all the caps together if you so choose in lieu of the bus strip. This allowed me to burn in multiple sets of caps at the same time, and it only takes the turn of a few screws to change caps in or out.
This has been my experience with the circuit. If Michael has something to add I am sure he will chime in. After all it is his circuit.
You should not have to do anything else. I use 6 volts as well. There is negligible voltage drain on the batteries during the burn in process.
I used barrier strips with bus strips/bars to connect the caps. You could use wire to tie all the caps together if you so choose in lieu of the bus strip. This allowed me to burn in multiple sets of caps at the same time, and it only takes the turn of a few screws to change caps in or out.
This has been my experience with the circuit. If Michael has something to add I am sure he will chime in. After all it is his circuit.
Hi Dave,
Beauty!
I bought a bag of insulated black and red aligator clips. I am having 4 pairs wired to the stripboard with 6 inch leads coming out of the hobby box. I could add more if I need in the future, there is a lot of room on the stripboard and room for more holes in the box for more wires too. I am also using a DC connector 2.1 x 5.5 mm panel mount female, so I can change battery holders (3v or 6v or 12v) with the corresponding male DC plug for other projects (lower or higher voltage burn in applications), and I can unplug it when not in use! And finally a panel mount RCA jack for easy hookup to the output of an FM tuner with an IC.
I'll take pics if I ever get a digital cameras!
Thanks again for the design and help!
Regards//Keith
Beauty!
I bought a bag of insulated black and red aligator clips. I am having 4 pairs wired to the stripboard with 6 inch leads coming out of the hobby box. I could add more if I need in the future, there is a lot of room on the stripboard and room for more holes in the box for more wires too. I am also using a DC connector 2.1 x 5.5 mm panel mount female, so I can change battery holders (3v or 6v or 12v) with the corresponding male DC plug for other projects (lower or higher voltage burn in applications), and I can unplug it when not in use! And finally a panel mount RCA jack for easy hookup to the output of an FM tuner with an IC.
I'll take pics if I ever get a digital cameras!
Thanks again for the design and help!
Regards//Keith
Burn in Circuit
Keith,
It sounds like you have taken the circuit to another level of flexibility. I have a picture of my crude burn in circuit, somewhere. I will try to locate it a post. I will try to post it fairly quickly, for my circuit is utlitarian and looks as if it were built by a cave man.
No, I don't have GIECO insurance at present, but I have slept in a Holiday a some point in my life.
Keith,
It sounds like you have taken the circuit to another level of flexibility. I have a picture of my crude burn in circuit, somewhere. I will try to locate it a post. I will try to post it fairly quickly, for my circuit is utlitarian and looks as if it were built by a cave man.
No, I don't have GIECO insurance at present, but I have slept in a Holiday a some point in my life.
Auricap Test Review
First let me put forth a disclaimer. I was first introduced to Auricaps about 5 or 6 years ago. I had replaced a set of film caps with Solens which were replaced by Auricaps in a Bottlehead Foreplay I tube preamp. I have never looked back. Based on the unexpected results I subsequently replaced all the caps in my speaker crossover network with Auricaps and I have applied them in various tweaks to DVD and CD players. Prior to these test Auricaps were my boutique capacitor of choice. They just seemed to add a level of audio clarity in my system wherever they were employed.
So, in light of the foregoing I will venture to put forth a critique of the Auricaps compared to all the capacitors that have gone before with special focus on the EPCOS MKTs. The Auricaps seemed to have given me a little fuller bass, but not the presence I got from the Obbligatos. The Auricaps sound ever so right. They have the laid back clean attributes of the MKTs, yet they yield a life like presence.
There is plenty of air around the performers and there seems to be a genuine 3-D texture to the soundstage. Not only do the performers seem to be placed on the soundstage from left to right, but they sound as if they are layered front to back. That is the Bass player in a Jazz group sounds as if he is a few feet behind the vocalist/soloist.
Surprisingly the Auricaps provided the “umph” for rock and R&B performances when called upon to do so. The bass is there and palpable when need be, yet is not overwhelming in acoustic bass performances. When the bass is being bowed; you can sense the rosin flying. Tom-tom drums sound just like that – they are round and full with an air that makes a tom-tom sound like a tom-tom.
Cymbals are not etched or overly loud. This attribute they share with the MKTs. They are well balanced in the overall scheme of sounds, and when the bell of the cymbal is hit it literally sounds like a bell – more so than the MKTs. Female vocalist sound so life like that I feel I could reach out and dance with them. The piano in combo sets sound like they are in the room to the extent I can just feel the power of the instrument. The Auricaps yield much more body on this and other instruments without placing the performers in your lap. The Obbligatos have just a little too much presence for my taste.
The Auricaps propagate a wide soundstage when one is called for; and a smaller one when the performance is smaller. Never is the performance compressed. The air and lightness of the upper register of the piano, and brushes on cymbals and snares is there in the proper balance and composition. The strokes of brushes on drums and cymbals is “spooky” – in that they sound so life like.
All of the films to date seem to pick up details and present them with little effort. There is no smearing and percussion is just more so. Nothing seems to be lost on complex passages with the Auricaps. The MKTs are just light in a good way. The Auricaps just seem to be well bodied and just right in all ranges. They don’t have as heavy a footprint as the Obbligatos. Some would prefer the Obbligatos for their warmth. Obbligatos are more like hot fudge and the MKTs I liken to a cup of green tea. The Auricaps are like hot Chocolate with whip cream topping. To me just right!
Auricaps just have the life like sound of a live performance to me. This is the cap I prefer and these test to date have done nothing to alter that preference. The cost of this cap makes it in my opinion exotic and the cost excessive. You get so close to this cap with the MKT for pennies by comparison and a more manageable package. The Auricaps will fit in a TA-10.1 with no problem, but the MKTs will fit in everything else with little if any jockeying for space.
Based exclusively on sound and sound alone I would pick the Auricap. When sound, size, and cost are taken into account the MKTs are the best value. If you prefer rock or more presence the Obbligatos are more likely to “rock” your boat (pun intended).
The Auricaps measured 2.26 and 2.24 MFDs 200 volts. Cost MSRP $22.56 (USD) Audience (Manufacturer of Auricaps).
These caps may be purchased at varying prices from a number of vendors.
First let me put forth a disclaimer. I was first introduced to Auricaps about 5 or 6 years ago. I had replaced a set of film caps with Solens which were replaced by Auricaps in a Bottlehead Foreplay I tube preamp. I have never looked back. Based on the unexpected results I subsequently replaced all the caps in my speaker crossover network with Auricaps and I have applied them in various tweaks to DVD and CD players. Prior to these test Auricaps were my boutique capacitor of choice. They just seemed to add a level of audio clarity in my system wherever they were employed.
So, in light of the foregoing I will venture to put forth a critique of the Auricaps compared to all the capacitors that have gone before with special focus on the EPCOS MKTs. The Auricaps seemed to have given me a little fuller bass, but not the presence I got from the Obbligatos. The Auricaps sound ever so right. They have the laid back clean attributes of the MKTs, yet they yield a life like presence.
There is plenty of air around the performers and there seems to be a genuine 3-D texture to the soundstage. Not only do the performers seem to be placed on the soundstage from left to right, but they sound as if they are layered front to back. That is the Bass player in a Jazz group sounds as if he is a few feet behind the vocalist/soloist.
Surprisingly the Auricaps provided the “umph” for rock and R&B performances when called upon to do so. The bass is there and palpable when need be, yet is not overwhelming in acoustic bass performances. When the bass is being bowed; you can sense the rosin flying. Tom-tom drums sound just like that – they are round and full with an air that makes a tom-tom sound like a tom-tom.
Cymbals are not etched or overly loud. This attribute they share with the MKTs. They are well balanced in the overall scheme of sounds, and when the bell of the cymbal is hit it literally sounds like a bell – more so than the MKTs. Female vocalist sound so life like that I feel I could reach out and dance with them. The piano in combo sets sound like they are in the room to the extent I can just feel the power of the instrument. The Auricaps yield much more body on this and other instruments without placing the performers in your lap. The Obbligatos have just a little too much presence for my taste.
The Auricaps propagate a wide soundstage when one is called for; and a smaller one when the performance is smaller. Never is the performance compressed. The air and lightness of the upper register of the piano, and brushes on cymbals and snares is there in the proper balance and composition. The strokes of brushes on drums and cymbals is “spooky” – in that they sound so life like.
All of the films to date seem to pick up details and present them with little effort. There is no smearing and percussion is just more so. Nothing seems to be lost on complex passages with the Auricaps. The MKTs are just light in a good way. The Auricaps just seem to be well bodied and just right in all ranges. They don’t have as heavy a footprint as the Obbligatos. Some would prefer the Obbligatos for their warmth. Obbligatos are more like hot fudge and the MKTs I liken to a cup of green tea. The Auricaps are like hot Chocolate with whip cream topping. To me just right!
Auricaps just have the life like sound of a live performance to me. This is the cap I prefer and these test to date have done nothing to alter that preference. The cost of this cap makes it in my opinion exotic and the cost excessive. You get so close to this cap with the MKT for pennies by comparison and a more manageable package. The Auricaps will fit in a TA-10.1 with no problem, but the MKTs will fit in everything else with little if any jockeying for space.
Based exclusively on sound and sound alone I would pick the Auricap. When sound, size, and cost are taken into account the MKTs are the best value. If you prefer rock or more presence the Obbligatos are more likely to “rock” your boat (pun intended).
The Auricaps measured 2.26 and 2.24 MFDs 200 volts. Cost MSRP $22.56 (USD) Audience (Manufacturer of Auricaps).
These caps may be purchased at varying prices from a number of vendors.
Hey Dave,
Nice articulation and review and placement of where your best performers stand. This can help narrow down choices to test for modding anything that needs a better coupling cap, based on budget, the desired effect and improvement (warmth, presence, exact details, etc.).
A few of the guys that do a lot of mods here that I admire, also put the Auricap very high on their list, so that is nice when separate paths reach the same conclusion. There are some reviews about the Obbligatos and they are also all strong, but they haven't gone mainstream in the marketplace yet, so reviews will continue to trickle in slowly (all similar to yours).
It seems that the Oscon MKT and Wima MKS2 are an incredible value because they do sound better than anything installed from the factory (except for some models) and have a small footprint to fit in a small space and usually are just plain cheap compared to the rest!
I just hope you get to try the MKP10s. So far you are echoing what I have read from other modders with a lot of experience and reviews from all over the internet (other forums). The MKP10s should fall in just under the Auricaps. The contest for second and third place will be between the Obbligatos and the MKP10s. I am interested in your impressions. The MKP10s are great for coupling caps in Solid State and the MKP4s are better in Tube applications according to some opinions I read.
Nice work (and very advanced) for a Caveman! LOL
Geico Insurance doesn't matter, there are other possibilities. Do you have long stringy hair, a pronounced forhead and brow bones, scraggly beard and bad rotting teeth? There might be a future in TV for you! There is a new TV show you know! Send the picture of the burn in circuit with your resume, you will be interviewed immediately! (I am just kidding you)
Thanks again!
Regards//Keith
Nice articulation and review and placement of where your best performers stand. This can help narrow down choices to test for modding anything that needs a better coupling cap, based on budget, the desired effect and improvement (warmth, presence, exact details, etc.).
A few of the guys that do a lot of mods here that I admire, also put the Auricap very high on their list, so that is nice when separate paths reach the same conclusion. There are some reviews about the Obbligatos and they are also all strong, but they haven't gone mainstream in the marketplace yet, so reviews will continue to trickle in slowly (all similar to yours).
It seems that the Oscon MKT and Wima MKS2 are an incredible value because they do sound better than anything installed from the factory (except for some models) and have a small footprint to fit in a small space and usually are just plain cheap compared to the rest!
I just hope you get to try the MKP10s. So far you are echoing what I have read from other modders with a lot of experience and reviews from all over the internet (other forums). The MKP10s should fall in just under the Auricaps. The contest for second and third place will be between the Obbligatos and the MKP10s. I am interested in your impressions. The MKP10s are great for coupling caps in Solid State and the MKP4s are better in Tube applications according to some opinions I read.
Nice work (and very advanced) for a Caveman! LOL
Geico Insurance doesn't matter, there are other possibilities. Do you have long stringy hair, a pronounced forhead and brow bones, scraggly beard and bad rotting teeth? There might be a future in TV for you! There is a new TV show you know! Send the picture of the burn in circuit with your resume, you will be interviewed immediately! (I am just kidding you)
Thanks again!
Regards//Keith
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