Mouser alternative for PSU
Hi,
I got the pcbs for the SE-SE amp and PSU, but please now I need your help to get the components. I would prefer to make the order to Mouser because DJkey gives me the task to interact with my country custom and in the past I had a bad experience.
Everything is OK for the SE-SE amp: all parts suggested by Owen are also available at Mouser.
On the contrary for the PSU I could not find exactly the same caps.
Please can you check if my following choice for possible substitutions is OK?
C16, C19, C51, C67:
UKT1E332MHD Nichicon | Mouser
C18, C87:
CGJ4C2C0G1H103J060AA TDK | Mouser
C20, C91:
GRM32ER7YA106KA12L Murata Electronics | Mouser
C28, C54, C85, C93:
GRM32ER71E226KE15L Murata Electronics | Mouser
Thank you
Northernsky
Hi,
I got the pcbs for the SE-SE amp and PSU, but please now I need your help to get the components. I would prefer to make the order to Mouser because DJkey gives me the task to interact with my country custom and in the past I had a bad experience.
Everything is OK for the SE-SE amp: all parts suggested by Owen are also available at Mouser.
On the contrary for the PSU I could not find exactly the same caps.
Please can you check if my following choice for possible substitutions is OK?
C16, C19, C51, C67:
UKT1E332MHD Nichicon | Mouser
C18, C87:
CGJ4C2C0G1H103J060AA TDK | Mouser
C20, C91:
GRM32ER7YA106KA12L Murata Electronics | Mouser
C28, C54, C85, C93:
GRM32ER71E226KE15L Murata Electronics | Mouser
Thank you
Northernsky
My boards arrived safely a few days ago. I ordered and received the parts from DigiKey and Mouser yesterday for 1 PSU and Bal-Bal. I put everything together for the PSU last night and the build went well. When I checked it out in the beginning the voltage rails were spot on at +/- 15 volts each. Good to go but then one side dropped down to mv output and then the other. Hummm... I pretty sure I messed up the regulators during the cleaning process
Hi guys,
how do you solder the LME49610 on the PCB? I mean their body to the copper plate of the PCB to carry the heat!
The heat from the soldering iron is absorbed so fast by the PCB itself that there is not enugh heat left to let the solder flow between the PCB and the LME. It's just cooling down without coupling.
I don't want to burn down the LME's by heating the PCB for 2 minutes or so...
Many thanks,
Stammheim
how do you solder the LME49610 on the PCB? I mean their body to the copper plate of the PCB to carry the heat!
The heat from the soldering iron is absorbed so fast by the PCB itself that there is not enugh heat left to let the solder flow between the PCB and the LME. It's just cooling down without coupling.
I don't want to burn down the LME's by heating the PCB for 2 minutes or so...
Many thanks,
Stammheim
rondr,
Use no-clean solder and you do not need to clean. I use Glow Core solder from Mouser. It is fantastic stuff and worth the one time addition expense. I use two different gauges, 0.015" for SMT and a bigger one for TH comps. To make it even easier, do not use lead free solder, as it is harder to work with due to its higher melting point. For DIY ROHS compliant should not be an issue.
Stammheim,
You need a hotter iron with a wide chisel tip. The slug can take lots of heat, while not under bias. It is a SMT part that is made to go through a IR oven with enough temp/dwell time to make the solder paste melt.
When hand soldering, leave a small gap (<=1mm) between the slug and pcb to try to get some solder to flow into the pcb and slug area, the best you can. A hot air pencil/machine is a luxury for this purpose.
nothernsky,
Easier to cross ref, if you helped me with the original Digi-Key PN Basically match the case & electrical parameters, at similar or better performance.
Good luck folks
Rick
Use no-clean solder and you do not need to clean. I use Glow Core solder from Mouser. It is fantastic stuff and worth the one time addition expense. I use two different gauges, 0.015" for SMT and a bigger one for TH comps. To make it even easier, do not use lead free solder, as it is harder to work with due to its higher melting point. For DIY ROHS compliant should not be an issue.
Stammheim,
You need a hotter iron with a wide chisel tip. The slug can take lots of heat, while not under bias. It is a SMT part that is made to go through a IR oven with enough temp/dwell time to make the solder paste melt.
When hand soldering, leave a small gap (<=1mm) between the slug and pcb to try to get some solder to flow into the pcb and slug area, the best you can. A hot air pencil/machine is a luxury for this purpose.
nothernsky,
Easier to cross ref, if you helped me with the original Digi-Key PN
Basically match the case & electrical parameters, at similar or better performance.Good luck folks
Rick
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My opinions, YMMV.
Probably not on your substitute. opc specified a low impedance cap for the original with a 4.2A ripple rating and Z = 11mR. This guy is only rated for 1.4A.
The closest might be Mouseer #661-EGPA250ELL332MK4, but there are still a bunch of differences. Better see what opc says.
Same: 3300uF, 25V, 20%, 5mm lead spacing, 12.5mm diameter, 0.75 ripple multiplier at 120Hz
Different: 3.34A ripple current vs. 4.2A for the original, 21mR vs. 11mR for the original, 40mm height vs. 33.5mm for the original. An automotive cap again, 5,000 hours at 125C vs. 10,000 hours at 105C for the original.
Substitute OK. Exactly the same parameters. That is a pricier extended life cap though for rugedized situaitons like cars and electric meters. The CGA4C2COG1H103J060AA (CGA vs. CGJ series) should work just fine at $0.31 vs. the $0.51. Or you could get a 2% tolerance for the same $0.51 with GRM2195C1H103GA01D.
Substitute OK. Exactly the same parameters.
Substitute OK. Exactly the same parameters.
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Whoops - I hadn't noticed those were out of stock. That is a problem. See what opc says about your original choice. A lot depends on the specifics of how the caps is being used.
EDIT: Here is another thought. Mouser has several low impedance 2700uF, 25V caps in stock like Mouser # 661-EKZH250E272MK35S. 3.57A ripple current with Z= 12mR. Still 5mm lead spacing, 35mm height, 12.5mm diameter. See what opc says...
That is a problem. See what opc says about your original choice. A lot depends on the specifics of how the caps is being used.EDIT: Here is another thought. Mouser has several low impedance 2700uF, 25V caps in stock like Mouser # 661-EKZH250E272MK35S. 3.57A ripple current with Z= 12mR. Still 5mm lead spacing, 35mm height, 12.5mm diameter. See what opc says...
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I built SE-SE + PSU today.
It took about 3 hours to build the whole thing, and it worked fine.
I was hearing some sibilance, but that could just have been the source.
As usual, I did some stress testing by playing some songs at high volume for about an hour, then decided to measure some temps.
At room temp of about 72 F, the buffers were measuring at about 110 F. Just a bit warm to the touch. I didn't have my IR thermometer, so I was using a pen-type digital thermo, and as I was pulling away, tapped somewhere in the vicinity of the red circle.
Kaput. No smoke and no spark, but obviously I burned some component.
Now the volume is very low, at max volume, I can barely hear anything.
When I plug the earphone in (I'm using a HD580 for this), I can hear loud pops.
So the question is, is there any way to troubleshoot so I can determine which part to replace?
It took about 3 hours to build the whole thing, and it worked fine.
I was hearing some sibilance, but that could just have been the source.
As usual, I did some stress testing by playing some songs at high volume for about an hour, then decided to measure some temps.
At room temp of about 72 F, the buffers were measuring at about 110 F. Just a bit warm to the touch. I didn't have my IR thermometer, so I was using a pen-type digital thermo, and as I was pulling away, tapped somewhere in the vicinity of the red circle.
Kaput. No smoke and no spark, but obviously I burned some component.
Now the volume is very low, at max volume, I can barely hear anything.
When I plug the earphone in (I'm using a HD580 for this), I can hear loud pops.
So the question is, is there any way to troubleshoot so I can determine which part to replace?
OPC is the EE on the job, but I say get as close as you can for lowest esr, highest ripple I, lowest leakage I. OPC uses the highest of quality comps, as the goal is top performance. How much each incremental change/deviation is, is a debatable issue. This ain't a SMPS.
Some will say, no guarantees if you deviate from the BOM
Sorry that I did not point out earlier to sort by the lowest esr, highest ripple I etc.
It does depend on what type of supply you are using.
For old Pioneer stereos people are using Nichicon UKL, UPW, Panasonic FC for supplies and Nichicon UKL or Elna SilmicII for signal paths. OPC likes the Organic Polymer stuff, for signal paths, so lots of choices/options.
Some will say, no guarantees if you deviate from the BOM
Sorry that I did not point out earlier to sort by the lowest esr, highest ripple I etc.
It does depend on what type of supply you are using.
For old Pioneer stereos people are using Nichicon UKL, UPW, Panasonic FC for supplies and Nichicon UKL or Elna SilmicII for signal paths. OPC likes the Organic Polymer stuff, for signal paths, so lots of choices/options.
Hi Guys,
The holidays are ramping up and I've been pretty swamped the past few days, so I haven't been responding to the thread. Let's see if we can get caught up!
northernsky:
agdr has got you covered, and all his suggestions are spot on, including the 2700uF caps.
Unfortunately, mouser has a woeful capacitor selection at the moment, and everything I would have suggested in the 3300uF size is out of stock. The remaining parts are mostly junk, and not recommended. I would suggest looking at the 2700uF caps instead.
The following would be acceptable subs for the caps:
667-EEU-FR1E272L - 12mohm, 3750mA RC, 10k hr
661-EKZH250E272MK35S - 12mohm, 3570mA RC, 6k hr (as suggested by agdr)
661-EKY250ELL272MK4 - 17mohm, 3350mA RC, 10k hr
647-UHE1E272MHD - 17mohm, 3350mA RC, 10k hr
agdr:
Thanks for helping out! Both myself and the folks asking the questions appreciate it
rsavas:
Thanks as well for helping out. You are correct that I am aiming for low ESR and high ripple current capacity. The ripple current capacity is not a direct requirement as this is a linear application as you mentioned and not a SMPS, but the ripple current capacity is a very good indicator of the quality of the cap overall.
Ockam:
Glad to hear the build went well, but sorry to hear about the probe shorting incident
I can't tell anything from the picture, but it doesn't sound good! These are tough little ICs so you mush have shorted just the right pins to cause a serious problem.
Starting from the beginning, definitely do not plug your headphones in! You could have a lot of DC on the output and those regs can supply enough current to destroy a pair of even the toughest headphones! Don't plug them back in until we get it sorted out.
Start with the power supply and make sure you still have +/-15V on the output. Next, measure the input and output DC offset. If it's not less than a mV or so, then you have a problem (which you almost certainly do!)
I would start by replacing the LME49990. You may have shorted the input of the LME49610 to the V- supply which likely killed the LME49990.
If you have spares, it might be best to just replace both the buffer and the op-amp.
Let us know what you find.
Cheers,
Owen
The holidays are ramping up and I've been pretty swamped the past few days, so I haven't been responding to the thread. Let's see if we can get caught up!
northernsky:
agdr has got you covered, and all his suggestions are spot on, including the 2700uF caps.
Unfortunately, mouser has a woeful capacitor selection at the moment, and everything I would have suggested in the 3300uF size is out of stock. The remaining parts are mostly junk, and not recommended. I would suggest looking at the 2700uF caps instead.
The following would be acceptable subs for the caps:
667-EEU-FR1E272L - 12mohm, 3750mA RC, 10k hr
661-EKZH250E272MK35S - 12mohm, 3570mA RC, 6k hr (as suggested by agdr)
661-EKY250ELL272MK4 - 17mohm, 3350mA RC, 10k hr
647-UHE1E272MHD - 17mohm, 3350mA RC, 10k hr
agdr:
Thanks for helping out! Both myself and the folks asking the questions appreciate it
rsavas:
Thanks as well for helping out. You are correct that I am aiming for low ESR and high ripple current capacity. The ripple current capacity is not a direct requirement as this is a linear application as you mentioned and not a SMPS, but the ripple current capacity is a very good indicator of the quality of the cap overall.
Ockam:
Glad to hear the build went well, but sorry to hear about the probe shorting incident
I can't tell anything from the picture, but it doesn't sound good! These are tough little ICs so you mush have shorted just the right pins to cause a serious problem.
Starting from the beginning, definitely do not plug your headphones in! You could have a lot of DC on the output and those regs can supply enough current to destroy a pair of even the toughest headphones! Don't plug them back in until we get it sorted out.
Start with the power supply and make sure you still have +/-15V on the output. Next, measure the input and output DC offset. If it's not less than a mV or so, then you have a problem (which you almost certainly do!)
I would start by replacing the LME49990. You may have shorted the input of the LME49610 to the V- supply which likely killed the LME49990.
If you have spares, it might be best to just replace both the buffer and the op-amp.
Let us know what you find.
Cheers,
Owen
opc - I would second the motion that Mouser has an awful selection of electrolytics.
A few months ago I needed a few different values of low Z electros to repair the inverter circuits (old leaking caps) in some old Chrysler car vacuum flourescent display panels. The originals from 20+ years ago were Nichicon low Z and crossed to a modern Nichicon low Z models. Mouser had pretty much the whole Nichicon product line with those cap and voltage values - except the low Z parts, including all the ones I needed. Argh!
Wound up having to cross some to other Mouser lines and go to Digikey for the rest.
A few months ago I needed a few different values of low Z electros to repair the inverter circuits (old leaking caps) in some old Chrysler car vacuum flourescent display panels. The originals from 20+ years ago were Nichicon low Z and crossed to a modern Nichicon low Z models. Mouser had pretty much the whole Nichicon product line with those cap and voltage values - except the low Z parts, including all the ones I needed. Argh!
Wound up having to cross some to other Mouser lines and go to Digikey for the rest.
Hi,
This should be my final concern for the Mouser BOM of The Wire PSU:
OPC suggestion currently out of stock:
173-7-240A- Wakefield | Mouser
Is the following replacement correct?
175-6-230P Wakefield | Mouser
I am not an expert, I can just copy (I hope), so my only contribution to this forum can be to fill the Mouser columns in the project BOMs that OPC left blank.
Thank you for your help
northernsky
This should be my final concern for the Mouser BOM of The Wire PSU:
OPC suggestion currently out of stock:
173-7-240A- Wakefield | Mouser
Is the following replacement correct?
175-6-230P Wakefield | Mouser
I am not an expert, I can just copy (I hope), so my only contribution to this forum can be to fill the Mouser columns in the project BOMs that OPC left blank.
Thank you for your help
northernsky
Nope, Owen pulled the NTD1 from this 'batch' and mentioned a more comprehensive design revision and said it would be released at a later date, I can't remember when/where this was mentioned, probably earlier in this thread somewhere.
Thanks Chris.
I really looked, here and in the NTD1 threads, both the design and build threads.
I did see the stuff Owen posted back in late October about running it on only the + rail... and then backing away from that a bit, with more to come. And the stuff in this thread about the LV NTD1 with the LM1632 output... much good coming, with an Owen DAC and associated shunt regs, I'm pumped.
Anyway, my main interest is to use different regs when I finally build the NTD1 I have from the first GB... I never liked the idea of LM317/LM337 regs there and couldn't come to terms with adding the heatsink requirements of 4 Salas to that of the NTD1. There seems to be a dearth of mid-voltage regs that would cover 45v or so... I have some schematics of simple IC-error amp/BJT or MOSFET output series regs that will work in this voltage regime (One is from the NYAL SuperIt and I adapted it for use in a rebuild of a CDB-650 back in the early '90s and the other is from Barry Streets of BEL amplifier fame), but both are old, will take some space, and are not very elegant solutions.
So a tested setup using the TPS7A3301 would be a good step in the right direction.
In any case, I'll be patient.
Thanks for the heads-up.
Greg in Mississippi
I really looked, here and in the NTD1 threads, both the design and build threads.
I did see the stuff Owen posted back in late October about running it on only the + rail... and then backing away from that a bit, with more to come. And the stuff in this thread about the LV NTD1 with the LM1632 output... much good coming, with an Owen DAC and associated shunt regs, I'm pumped.
Anyway, my main interest is to use different regs when I finally build the NTD1 I have from the first GB... I never liked the idea of LM317/LM337 regs there and couldn't come to terms with adding the heatsink requirements of 4 Salas to that of the NTD1. There seems to be a dearth of mid-voltage regs that would cover 45v or so... I have some schematics of simple IC-error amp/BJT or MOSFET output series regs that will work in this voltage regime (One is from the NYAL SuperIt and I adapted it for use in a rebuild of a CDB-650 back in the early '90s and the other is from Barry Streets of BEL amplifier fame), but both are old, will take some space, and are not very elegant solutions.
So a tested setup using the TPS7A3301 would be a good step in the right direction.
In any case, I'll be patient.
Thanks for the heads-up.
Greg in Mississippi