Brett said:
Man testy testy, you know what they say about opinions and what they are like.
This is a forum to state your opinion you did but you have no right to force your opinion on others, do you?
Just my 2 cents.
Personally I would enjoy trying different brands of tube, it's just another why to tweak things.
And hey I like to spend the money
Nick
Nick, who is forcing? I gave my opinion and would have not bothered to most more in this thread, but I was personally attacked by stating that I wanted to own DIY. If someone directly quotes me and I disagree, I am allowed to respond and have. When I responded, I was called elitist because I have more experience than some in this area and possibly because it disagrees with their own personal hobby horse. Since then I have been fending off personal attacks - go view the thread excepts in Texas.nhuwar said:
An example. If we were all standing in a group at a party and someone asked a question to the group about something they were thinking about doing, and a person with experience and/or education in that particular area, say a Doctor or Lawyer or Engineer said, "perhaps reconsider, there may be better ways to spend your time, money and effort, and this is why..." Would you shout "elitist!" as some others are doing towards me?
So was I.nhuwar said:
The original post asked "but i do need a little more "edgy" sound. Little more "bite". Little more transient sound." What does that mean? What specific tube characteristics would produce this change? Lots of people could offer suggestions of different brands to try, but unless they offered a loaner test for free, the OP would still have to spend money to see if his opinions matched theirs in his amp. With a coupe of different brands offered and purchased a fair sum of money could be spent for little or no gain.
Coupled with "Though good sounding, out of the box, anything can be tweaked for my personal preferred sound" which I took to mean actual mods to the amp, as this site is not big on "tweaks" I thought it best that the OP learn something about how amps work via Tubecad or MJ's book. Then better informed decisions could be made and the money spent on say 3 sets of new production tubes could be a long way towards a DIY build, plus DIYing is fan and can be very satisfying, no?. The original "not bad sounding" amp could be used during this time and as a reference point. When something better was built, not hard to do for amny commercial designs, and the unmodified amp could be sold (for more money) if that was desired. Simply an alternative path offered rather than what would amount to some spare sets of tubes laying around.
I would also be far more comfortable for inexperienced DIYer would learn about high voltage safety so as not to harm themselves. There is good info on this site.
On the issue "sound and tubes:
For many years, i had amps ussing KT88 tubes, and was delighted with the sound. One day i got hand on a pair of Cary Audio monoblocks (25w), and since i have only had amps using EL34´s.
The sound is more "in between" ordinary transistor amps, and tube amps, in my opinion.
I´ve got hold on 4 pcs of Siemens EL34´s, as recommended by another forum member, and i´m going to mount them today.
I´ll report my observations later.
Thank you for all the advises.
"I´ll be back"!
For many years, i had amps ussing KT88 tubes, and was delighted with the sound. One day i got hand on a pair of Cary Audio monoblocks (25w), and since i have only had amps using EL34´s.
The sound is more "in between" ordinary transistor amps, and tube amps, in my opinion.
I´ve got hold on 4 pcs of Siemens EL34´s, as recommended by another forum member, and i´m going to mount them today.
I´ll report my observations later.
Thank you for all the advises.
"I´ll be back"!
I have some different brands of EL34's in my tube case. I have some GE's, Westinghouse, EI's, Sovtek, and Electro Harmonix to name a few.
I have several Dynaco Stereo 70 amplifiers. One is stock except for an aftermarket capacitor board and replacing all the resistors and caps on the driver board and individual tube bias.
One has had a Mapletree driver board , power supply cap board , and individual tube bias capabilities.
I also have some Quicksilver modified 8417's and some Wurlitzer 6L6 mono blocks. I also have an array of SS amplifiers in stacks on my shelves in the garage.
You really cannot tell much difference when switching the output tubes in the stock amplifier. There is very little difference in my humble opinion. The Dynaco fitted with the MApletree driver board is more open to change. I honestly feel I can hear larger differences between the different brands of output tubes. The difference can also change if I change the input and phase splitter tubes. A totally different sound can be had when using the Sylvania 6sj7 and the Russian 6sl7 and when using the 5693 and 5691 tubes. The amplifiers sound changes entirely when using 6BG6GA output tubes. The sound seems to be more influenced by the line stage in my opinion than it is in the power amp. I have a number of different DIY line stages that I have built up over the years and each has a different sound.
So, is it worth the cost to try different output tubes? Well, I had to know and in my case and if I were to do it again I probably would have purchased a quad of JJ's or Electro Harmonix and called it good. I would however stay away from the expensive NOS tubes that you see listed and bid upon until their value is in the $500 range.
Just my opinion
I have several Dynaco Stereo 70 amplifiers. One is stock except for an aftermarket capacitor board and replacing all the resistors and caps on the driver board and individual tube bias.
One has had a Mapletree driver board , power supply cap board , and individual tube bias capabilities.
I also have some Quicksilver modified 8417's and some Wurlitzer 6L6 mono blocks. I also have an array of SS amplifiers in stacks on my shelves in the garage.
You really cannot tell much difference when switching the output tubes in the stock amplifier. There is very little difference in my humble opinion. The Dynaco fitted with the MApletree driver board is more open to change. I honestly feel I can hear larger differences between the different brands of output tubes. The difference can also change if I change the input and phase splitter tubes. A totally different sound can be had when using the Sylvania 6sj7 and the Russian 6sl7 and when using the 5693 and 5691 tubes. The amplifiers sound changes entirely when using 6BG6GA output tubes. The sound seems to be more influenced by the line stage in my opinion than it is in the power amp. I have a number of different DIY line stages that I have built up over the years and each has a different sound.
So, is it worth the cost to try different output tubes? Well, I had to know and in my case and if I were to do it again I probably would have purchased a quad of JJ's or Electro Harmonix and called it good. I would however stay away from the expensive NOS tubes that you see listed and bid upon until their value is in the $500 range.
Just my opinion
I´ve been listening, for some hours, to the Siemens EL34´s:
Audible or not?
In times when hifi nerds spend up to 1000$, on cords with very little sound improvement, compared to the 50$ cords they used before, i must say that this surely is audible.
More than changing cords!
The Siemens have a more refined midband, more details and an more open sound. The midband is "out of the box" already one of the Cronus great forces, but this really adds some new "sweetnes" and details. Listening to female opera voices, and classical spanish guitar is really "something new".
It didn´t add the more "edgy" sound, i was looking for, but what it did ad, was surely an overall improvement in sound.
Audible or not?
In times when hifi nerds spend up to 1000$, on cords with very little sound improvement, compared to the 50$ cords they used before, i must say that this surely is audible.
More than changing cords!
The Siemens have a more refined midband, more details and an more open sound. The midband is "out of the box" already one of the Cronus great forces, but this really adds some new "sweetnes" and details. Listening to female opera voices, and classical spanish guitar is really "something new".
It didn´t add the more "edgy" sound, i was looking for, but what it did ad, was surely an overall improvement in sound.
Lowrider said:Seems like I lost the second round, somehow I was unsubscribed from this thread...
There is no need to say anything else to the elitist, he is surely minority over here...
Glad you like the Siemens, with a few more hours they may improve a bit, they sound really well balanced, and lively, now I am a bit confused with what you mean with "edgy"...
OK, "edgy" probably isn´t the right word, but i listen a lot to jazz music, live. I know how a trumpet, or a trombone, can sound really "screaming" to the ears ( i´m not talking amplified music). Really on the edge to unpleasent for the ear. This is what i´m looking for. OK?
More "bite", please.
Lowrider said:
Who was warned...
About "edgy", maybe you need to play louder, what are your speakers...
My speakers are a whole chapter in itself.
I have had these wonderful sounding JBL L18T, for many, many years. I have always kept them while a whole lot of other speakers (including many other JBL´s), were put into my hifi setup.
They have always survived, i just love the sound of these great speakers.
6.5" midbass and 1" titanium dome in 12-13 liters (net.) box.
Given the "wrong" amp, these speakers´ treble really sounds annoying, BUT giving them tube amplification, WOW!
As i remember the Cary Audio monoblocks, i had 2 years ago, had this more "bite" to the treble, but i´m not 100% sure. Fair enough, it´s to say, thet the Cary´s , did cost a lot more, than the Rogue.
benelli said:
You might consider trying a set of 6CA7 tubes. They ought to be pin compatible with the EL34, and they're rated for similar similar heater current. The specified operating voltages are similar too. I'd expect you could plug them into your amp and need to change nothing but the bias.
I've been told the 6CA7 (beam tetrode) is likely to have a different sound than a EL34 (pentode). The "big bottle" Electro Harmonix 6CA7EH can be found for under $60 a quad. It might be worth a try to see if it has the sound you are after.
For jazz trumpet to sound realistic you really need low distortion, low noise floor, and lots of headroom. If you don't have distortion measuring equipment, you can try different NOS tubes. Just resell the ones that don't suit you. I would recommend Mullards all around as a starting point and if you have an analog front end, Tommy Turrentine's trumpet work as recorded on the new Musicmatters Blue Note re-issue of Horace Parlan's Speakin' My Piece is probably the best source reference for that instrument out there.
John
jlsem said:
I use CD player front end, Holfi Xara (danish company), very "analog sounding".
And i ( as other people) have discovered some CD companys recordings sound a lot better than others, when it comes to natural sounding trumpets.
Timeless Interprises ( a lot of Chris Barber) and Pablo (Basie´s Kansas City series, amongst others) are better than "the average".
It really demands a lot of "lucky punches", to get the sound right, on trupets.
The owerall best sounding trumpet,, in my collection (230 CD´s jazz only) is Chris Barber & Wendell Brunious "Panama". TIMELESS CD TTD568
benelli said:
Though it seems I may be jumping into a hornets' nest here....I think that the above quote speaks volumes.....sorry for the bad pun. In my experience, EL34's tend to be more of a midrange(frequency spectrum, not quality) tube. Thats why they make those "screeching" JBLs sound so good.......(no offense...I love my JBLs too)
And I think thats what gets lost in many of these "what sounds better" threads. Different combinations of different components(not to mention different room acoustics, and even different personal perceptions), ALL make these posts kinda useless...... the ENTIRE system has to be evaluated(tuned)....and even then, that "perfect" tuning....is usually for just one particular recording, or if your lucky, a genre of music. Kinda like the "hybrid" dirt/street motorbikes.....they dont do either very well....there are always compromises.....
Dont get me wrong.....tube "rolling" can be great fun, but dont expect it to make a "poor"(or inadequatly "biting") sounding *system* better. Will it sound "different" MAYBE......but I have yet to see any tremendous/miraculous improvements from different brands of tubes. That does NOT take into account the CONDITION of the tube though.....a worn out darn near dead Tele, IS going to sound worse(but still fetch a fortune on FleaBay), compared to a brand new Sovtek(provided it wasnt bad from the factory).
SO......what tube sounds best???........thats up to you, the original poster......and your bank account. If you have money to burn, then by all means start buying some of those high dollar tubes and roll away.....please let us know the results. If not....start evaluating your system as a whole, and look for less expensive ways to get that "BITE" youre looking for.
Speakers are usually where I start.....but to each their own......
good luck with your quest.....
Re: Re: Re: The sound of different EL34´s.
SRS says they ship worldwide. I've ordered from them once, and found their US shipping to be very prompt.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250251137967
benelli said:
SRS says they ship worldwide. I've ordered from them once, and found their US shipping to be very prompt.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250251137967
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