Porsche or no Porsche, is that the question?
This is a really entertaining thread, combining two great interests, car and audio, but not necessarily comined in one, as sound system in car. I now live in Vietnam, where one does not want to drive anything nice and fast, but it does give one more time to mess about with audio stuff.
As to Bybees, I am not convinced they add anything of value to automotive or audio advancement. As to audio, it is just the lack of data out there, but as to automotive, I feel more comfrotable to comment, especially with respect to Porsches.
I have owned a number of 911 Porsches, as well as a Detomasso Pantera, Alfa Romeo, BMW 2002, MG TD, Triumph TR6, Jaguar XK120 OTS and some others I have forgotten about. My experience is fairly deep. I was crew chief on an SCCA Trans Am team in 1978, running an ex-factory Lemans Carrera with all the good stuff, including Bosch mechanical fuel injection with slide valve throttle bodies. I have built probably 30 to 40 Porsche engines and transaxles, from 911, 912 to 356 and 914. I stripped and rebuilt my 1973 911 Targa and modified it to a 2.7 litre mechanical injection motor with S cams and twin plugs, and rebuilt the aforementioned Jaguar, frame up, from boxes of parts and rust I purchased from one guy's abandoned project. I also have worked on 904s, 911-6 GTs and a lot of other exotica, including Ferraris, a Lotus Europa twincam, a 1932 blown Alfa Romeo, Lamborghini Miura and Countachs, to name a few. I have also set up countless triple trouble Webers and struggled with fouled plugs while attempting to get the jetting, choke and emulsion tubes right.
I guess the above allows me some lattitude to comment on ignitions. In point of fact, getting clean burn is obviously critical to maxing out performance. Once clean burn is achieved at the stochiometric ratio, I can see little advantage in spending any real amount of money on super ignition stuff or Bybee purifiers, if indeed they do anything really beneficial, which I doubt. The propagation of the flame front in the combustion chamber within the extremely small amount of time between piston cycles, especially at high revs, seems the limiting factor to ignition performance. Rather, multiple different placed ignition sources, for example twin plugs per cylinder, allow two flame fronts to propogate, thus increasing power. Race engines, Porsche included, utilize this technology.
As to when a car is a Porsche or not a Porsche, is a question better asked around the ubiquitous 914, marketed in Europe as a VW and the US as a Porsche. To cloud the issue further, what is a 914-6, with a 2 litre Porsche 911 engine squeezed in, or better yet the 914-6 GT? I don't really know, but a hell of a lot of fun to drive that goes like stink, especially the 914-6 variant, with twin ignition fired by a Marelli distributor similar to a Ferari V-12 unit, but obviously different rotor and cap.
To me, it matters not what you want to classify it as, but what it does for you. Also to me, ignition "enhancements", like the Bybee units, are not worth it. Show me independent dyno charts under controlled, verifiable and repeatable conditions, and I would reconsider. I am skeptical of these Bybee things. One thing is for certain though, John Curl seems a pretty tolerant guy to take the criticisms and keep a decent attitude. Of all this, that seems most true and accurate.
This is a really entertaining thread, combining two great interests, car and audio, but not necessarily comined in one, as sound system in car. I now live in Vietnam, where one does not want to drive anything nice and fast, but it does give one more time to mess about with audio stuff.
As to Bybees, I am not convinced they add anything of value to automotive or audio advancement. As to audio, it is just the lack of data out there, but as to automotive, I feel more comfrotable to comment, especially with respect to Porsches.
I have owned a number of 911 Porsches, as well as a Detomasso Pantera, Alfa Romeo, BMW 2002, MG TD, Triumph TR6, Jaguar XK120 OTS and some others I have forgotten about. My experience is fairly deep. I was crew chief on an SCCA Trans Am team in 1978, running an ex-factory Lemans Carrera with all the good stuff, including Bosch mechanical fuel injection with slide valve throttle bodies. I have built probably 30 to 40 Porsche engines and transaxles, from 911, 912 to 356 and 914. I stripped and rebuilt my 1973 911 Targa and modified it to a 2.7 litre mechanical injection motor with S cams and twin plugs, and rebuilt the aforementioned Jaguar, frame up, from boxes of parts and rust I purchased from one guy's abandoned project. I also have worked on 904s, 911-6 GTs and a lot of other exotica, including Ferraris, a Lotus Europa twincam, a 1932 blown Alfa Romeo, Lamborghini Miura and Countachs, to name a few. I have also set up countless triple trouble Webers and struggled with fouled plugs while attempting to get the jetting, choke and emulsion tubes right.
I guess the above allows me some lattitude to comment on ignitions. In point of fact, getting clean burn is obviously critical to maxing out performance. Once clean burn is achieved at the stochiometric ratio, I can see little advantage in spending any real amount of money on super ignition stuff or Bybee purifiers, if indeed they do anything really beneficial, which I doubt. The propagation of the flame front in the combustion chamber within the extremely small amount of time between piston cycles, especially at high revs, seems the limiting factor to ignition performance. Rather, multiple different placed ignition sources, for example twin plugs per cylinder, allow two flame fronts to propogate, thus increasing power. Race engines, Porsche included, utilize this technology.
As to when a car is a Porsche or not a Porsche, is a question better asked around the ubiquitous 914, marketed in Europe as a VW and the US as a Porsche. To cloud the issue further, what is a 914-6, with a 2 litre Porsche 911 engine squeezed in, or better yet the 914-6 GT? I don't really know, but a hell of a lot of fun to drive that goes like stink, especially the 914-6 variant, with twin ignition fired by a Marelli distributor similar to a Ferari V-12 unit, but obviously different rotor and cap.
To me, it matters not what you want to classify it as, but what it does for you. Also to me, ignition "enhancements", like the Bybee units, are not worth it. Show me independent dyno charts under controlled, verifiable and repeatable conditions, and I would reconsider. I am skeptical of these Bybee things. One thing is for certain though, John Curl seems a pretty tolerant guy to take the criticisms and keep a decent attitude. Of all this, that seems most true and accurate.
I've got a little pocket book entitled "The Worlds Worst Cars". The AMC Gremlin is #1 in the "Design Disasters" chapter.
Presumably, goin’ by your obvious lack of taste, if you were looking for a larger car at the time you would have bought the equally hideous Pacer?
Lingos are pretty remarkable, not merely divided by geographics, but also time and individual bound.
For instance, take Mr Stuart's signature.
A WW2 monument line by an outstanding gent, also poet and founder of a small quality weekly newspaper* overhere.
Truly beautiful words with the scent of ancient, almost forgotten times.
Ipod youngsters nowadays, all with combo of visible underwear and trousers barely hanging on their lower hips, would likely read those same words as : If you bend over you'll loose more than just your knickers.
Then again, a hick like me scored straight A's for math but never managed anything but C's for my native tongue.
(* also had really kinky sex ads in the small section pages in pre-2k
)
Well done, Tony. I am glad to see a significant percentage of people actually knowing how to work on and modify cars. I've been at it for 50 years, first with my Mom's '54 Chevy with dual carbs and dual exhausts, then repairing the Renault Dauphine, almost constantly for about 5 years, having to tune the twin SU's, live with the racing exhaust, and trying out a sport coil in the Sprite, and finally living with an added dual exhaust, Sport Coil,dual Weber carb, milled heads, 3/4 cam, stronger valve springs, and Koni Shocks in the '68 SAAB Sonnet.
It is as much a learning experience, as people here find with audio design.
I remember when I tried to get a sample transistor from Delco to make my first electronic Ignition. The woman on the other side of the phone had heard it before, from people like me, and gently reminded me that the Delco DTS-431 cost: $100 each, so no samples, without good cause. We were already using the DTS-423 at work, were we made a high voltage switching supply, and I had to live with that.
Do you see everyone, there is engineering everywhere, tweaking just to find out what happens, even looking at the JC Whitney Catalog and wonder if some of those gizmos really work? (It's possible)
Over the decades I have tried just about every chemical additive, Marvel Mystery Oil is in a small container, by my side, as well as exotic contact enhancer from an old audio friend, WD40, and Caig contact Deoxit, that I used, just last night to improve my telephone contacts.
It is as much a learning experience, as people here find with audio design.
I remember when I tried to get a sample transistor from Delco to make my first electronic Ignition. The woman on the other side of the phone had heard it before, from people like me, and gently reminded me that the Delco DTS-431 cost: $100 each, so no samples, without good cause. We were already using the DTS-423 at work, were we made a high voltage switching supply, and I had to live with that.
Do you see everyone, there is engineering everywhere, tweaking just to find out what happens, even looking at the JC Whitney Catalog and wonder if some of those gizmos really work? (It's possible)
Over the decades I have tried just about every chemical additive, Marvel Mystery Oil is in a small container, by my side, as well as exotic contact enhancer from an old audio friend, WD40, and Caig contact Deoxit, that I used, just last night to improve my telephone contacts.
LAMO
I just looked that one up in the index - Chevrolet Citation (1980-1986), #7 in the "Badly Built" chapter.
Problems:
Engine oil consumption
Overly tight brake hoses prone to rupture (brake failure)
Oversteer (+overly light steering)
Rust (missing underseal)
Ah yes, thanks. The cool location for a photo shoot makes sense. And I guess there aren't too many German beaches like that.
Funny, I used to work in Lauderdale. Haven't been back in 30 years.
My first 2 cars were the 1959 VW "Bug" and the 1959 Jaguar MKI 3.4L "Saloon". Did a lot of work on those cars. Not performance upgrades, just to keep them running! That's one way to learn.
I think a lot of DIY audio types also get their hands dirty with cars. It's all DIY.
GTHICM, VERY GOOD INPUT. You have been around cars, that is for sure. When it comes to Bybee's, that appears to be misinformation put here that Bybees have ANYTHING to do with auto ignition performance. They are confusing it with Shakti Stones, which can potentially be used in automotive applications as an RF-interference filter for data lines from the engine, and protection for the computer chip running the engine. There are DYNO measurements showing this, on their website. I will ask Jack Bybee about it, when he wakes up this morning, in an hour or two.
Jack Bybee used to own an auto chip company that he sold out a couple decades ago, to some other outfit. I will have to ask him about which company that is.
The Sequerra spark plugs are interesting, because they have an additional pellet of Thoriated, (or its practical equivalent) steel, welded on the tip return path (I don't know what else to call it). This apparently allows for a larger working gap, 3 times larger, for the same gap breakdown voltage. For marginal car combustion chambers and ignitions, this can be a good tweak.
Jack Bybee used to own an auto chip company that he sold out a couple decades ago, to some other outfit. I will have to ask him about which company that is.
The Sequerra spark plugs are interesting, because they have an additional pellet of Thoriated, (or its practical equivalent) steel, welded on the tip return path (I don't know what else to call it). This apparently allows for a larger working gap, 3 times larger, for the same gap breakdown voltage. For marginal car combustion chambers and ignitions, this can be a good tweak.
Ha ha. That is almost as retarded as Peter Brock's* infamous "Energy Polarizer":
YouTube - Peter Brock Energy Polarizer
* The Australian Peter Brock who raced Holdens, not the American Peter Brock who raced z-cars.
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Whatever you say -Shakti Stones, no worries. BTW, Bybee is B.S.
Those spark plugs probably use kryptonite electrodes.
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Please do not lie about other people's products. Either test them, evaluate them, measure them, or just keep to your own devices. Badmouthing something that you know nothing about, and never will, does little, but to let you downgrade someone else, who is really trying to help improve a particular technology. It's fun to try to make something better, you really must try it, sometime.
Anyone experienced enough to explain how this works? And what is the 'improvement'? What happens if overloaded?
Bybee Large Quantum Purifier
Bybee Large Quantum Purifier
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