I am extremely busy now, family needs money. Have no time on hardware projects, refreshing memory around requirements in different job descriptions before each interview... It is funny, when they claim to need MS EE, but actually interview on positions of narrow-trained technicians, hence the questions.. Suppose, they ask Michael Schumacher, "How many years of experience with driving Honda Civic do you have? How many of them with automatic gearshift?"
Since I expanded the scope of my amplifier's capabilities I have found the available space for the type of build I was planing on is a little tight. Still trying to find a way to shoehorn it in there. If not I will have to revert to plan B (once I figure out what that is).
Gday costis-n,
Don't know about anybody else but i'm still working at it & learking in the background.
I have come up with "single valve" design that is getting some good results for different styles of music, even my old mate Cassiel will like this one.
I've been waiting for others to put up some sound clips, i tried to force there hand with some very ordinary sounding amps to see what they had but no one took the bait as yet.
Personally I think this thread would go further if a good basic design was posted & from there everyone throw in there 10c worth to try to build an ultimate 5W practice amp.
Not through words which anyone can do but through building & testing!
Like the old saying goes, two heads are better than one, so a thousand or so should be able to create magic when it comes to a practice amp.
It would make more sense for a thousand people to build the same amp than a thousand people building individual style amps, just my 10c worth, not that it means much?
I understand it's a competition with a budget but blow the budget & build a real ball tearer of an amp that everyone can enjoy not only designing, building & testing but also listening to?
Taking into account the amount of views this thread has, I would say there might be a lot of interest which can't hurt the DIY Forum.
Cheers
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Do you mean fool?
I emptied it a bit. Last year I made some donation to the forum so my mailbox size was increased, but now it shrunk back so it was full.
I haven't played the guitar much in the past several years, and I have been very frustrated in my recent attempts. If I posted any of MY playing the mods might be tempted to close the thread.
Would that be an SE amp or a P-P amp. Would it go to 11 or just 5 or 6. Would it........
I have 3 working amps, a few more partially built and about 6 that I have already abandoned. A dozen of so never got past the spreadsheet due to cost or parts availability problems. I have at least a zillion ideas that I won't have time to try. Which ONE of my designs do you want everyone else to start with? They are very different from each other. Or maybe it's one of your designs, or maybe just another tweaked out Champ.
The real challenge is to build an amp design that fits the budget but flat out rocks as is. I have one of them. It makes 18 Watts at full tilt through a pair of tubes that are close relatives to the EL84 and it fits in $100. There is an attenuator so you can get that cranked stack sound at any power level between zero and 18 watts.
Of course you could make an amp that fits the budget, makes 5 to 10 watts with dollar tubes, but also fits EL34's and 12AX7's. Swap the transformers and 40 watts is at your disposal.
The real budget blasters will come after the challenge is over. Those that have followed my antics on the red board thread know that I have extracted 525 watts out of it. Does anyone want a 200 watt SE guitar amp with a glowing 833A in a Lexan box???????? (Don't try this at home..There is a 1/4 inch thick piece of Lexan between me and the electronics and a fire extinguisher at my feet). The amp throws 500 watts worth of heat into the room at idle too!
So we all put our ideas out there, demonstrate and describe them the best way we can, and let the readers decide what they want to build. The more designs the better. Where would this forum be if we only had one HiFi amp or speaker design to build.
I am not interested in "winning" this competition. I wouldn't have spent nearly $1000 to win my $100 back if that was the only motivation. The challenge was the final kick that got me started down a road that I should have taken a long time ago (like when I could still play the guitar). I have spent the $$$ to find out what works, and what doesn't. I did the same thing with my HiFi amps.
Yes, some Tubelab PC boards and parts kits may come from all this. I certainly hope so. The HiFi amps started with the high end, and moved toward "Simple". These designs will start with "Simple" and go up from there. It won't happen in the time and budget of this challenge, but there IS a screen driven sweep tube guitar amp that can set speakers on fire in the works.
Attachments
Kind of my sentiment also. I was going to design a low buck amp that others could build but did not have a specific dollar figure in mind. I was heading this direction before the contest but this just gave me a forum to do it in. Since then I caught wind on how much some small amps retail for and the whole exercise seems less practical.
That is unless a person wants to go off the beaten path and build an amp that caught his eye. In that way I hope we have a variety of designs so that those inclined may find one amp that suits them. Others have worked on one design and from accounts tweaked the design and came up with some winners. (Thrifty or Pushy Croaker, Tone Per Buck Club).
I see the what we are doing as somewhat different. Mainly try something we might have wanted to do but just needed that little push to give it a shot.
From my experience anyone who used to play surf music can still find there way around a fretboard to sufficiently put up a clip.
Some of the best guitarist played or practiced surf music, as it requires good skills, dexterity etc.
You may not be happy with what you can do now but I bet it's a lot more than some others can do. I had a guy who used to play surf music play one of my guitars & boy he near had smoke coming off the sucker, it was great to listen to & watch, very skillful indeed.
Somehow I think we have simillar understandings of guitar amps in that unless they go to at least 23 they are just not guitar amps hahaha!
To be honest, I would have to listen to one of them before commenting, GOOD guitar amps as you know are a far cry from & much more difficult to build than Hi-Fi stuff--Sound Wise that is.
I can feel the spit boiling at the mouths of the Audiofiles reading that Hahahah, it's the truth though.
If GOOD guitar amps especially small ones were easy to build then everyone would have one.
I don't think I have ever heard a great all round small guitar amp????
Yep I agree.
Yeah this is the challenge, a simple good all round good sounding amp that is attractive to the masses, it's a hard ask.
I have just mustered up several old amps, some of the greats actually to study the signals of each.
I remember a while back you said that you can't simulate a guitar amp, I agreed at the time but am now looking at things a different way than before.
There is something missing, you can follow schematics exactly from the past only to find out things are so different in sound it is beyond belief.
Time to find out why!
It's all interesting stuff!
Cheers
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Im just waiting for some final versions. I lack the skill level you guys have, but Im learning, and Im pretty handy with a soldering iron. I cant wait to steal all these great ideas. Building them will be fun. Playing them more so. Im sure there are many others quietly watching as well. I think this challenge is great. It should spawn food for thought long after the challenge is over. You guys are all winners in my book! Let the rockin commence!
I think one of the limiting factors on small guitar amps is the speaker. In most cases they use 6" or 8" budget speakers which don't really show the capibilities of the amp as well as a better speaker ($$) would.
George, did you ever come to any conclusion on the speakers you purchased other than the Blue Maravel?
George, did you ever come to any conclusion on the speakers you purchased other than the Blue Maravel?
You know? there may be a way around that part.
I may or may not have mentioned this before but several amp manufactures get someone to record a standardized clip.
They then use the same clip for multiple amps Mic'd so you can hear the differences in each design. Granted there are a lot of variables from builder to builder but this can work for an individual builder that has multiple options built into the amp.
A good example (NO AFFILIATION) would be Clark amplifiers.
Each model of the tweed replicas he sells uses the same clip. You can clearly hear the differences model to model and guitar to guitar even though it is a recorded clip.
Clark Tone Comparison
Also, if you are primarily a lead player, you could always get a couple backing tracks and add your own flair. Often the sound in the mix will be more pleasing than trying to find or create content on your own.
Here is a fun one on youtube
Nationwide Backtrack - YouTube
Just a thought.
I played surf music from the age of 9 or 10 until 17 or so. I got a Hagstrom and started playing rock. It was stolen when I was about 22 and I had no guitar for quite a while. My skills peaked at about age 17. I am now 58. Arthritis, and nerve damage have caused limitations in what my hands can do. My hands and forearms will go numb and tingle if they stay in one place for more than a few minutes. The worst issues occur when sitting here holding a mouse, driving for long distances, and to a lesser extent playing guitar. When I kind of quit playing a few years ago it was my left hand that wouldn't go where I wanted. Now its my right. Blasting out power chords or playing bar chords all over the neck is no problem but picking the right string when playing lead is very frustrating right now. I am improving slowly, but I get a few minutes at a time before the numbness sets in.
I think you can model the crummy ESR in an old electrolytic, but how do you model the saturation in an undersized OPT using the spice based simulators that most of us use. Old Fenders were almost always undersized. Most tube models assume linear operation. The models break down when you draw grid current, operate the screen voltage above the plate voltage, and other things we do to our vacuum tubes to make them scream. My screen drive, class A2 and class AB2 experiments so far have not behaved like the simulation.
Everybody in the world will not be satisfied driving a Honda Accord (or whatever) a lot of people are. There are just as many varying tastes in guitars and amps. It's fairly easy to make a low cost amp that does clean acoustic tones, and it's fairly easy to make one that does screaming distortion. The challenge is to make one that can do both and transition from one to the other.
Yes, there is only so much sound that you can squeeze through a 6 or 8 inch speaker.
First off I now realize that my conclusions on the Blue Marvel are flawed. I mounted it in an open backed box that is seen in some of my pictures and connected it to one of my test amps and it sounded dead, lifeless, and not very loud. I replaced it with the Jensen Alnico which sounded much better.
I have now realized that the Peavey is 4 ohms while the others are 8 ohms. I tried connecting the Jensen to the 16 ohm tap and it sounded bad too.
At this moment the 8 inch Jensen P8R is being used for most of my testing. It gets pretty loud when 20 watts are cranked into it and puts out more bass than I thought it would.
I have two large cabinets for the Eminence 12 inch speakers mentioned by Trout ready for Tolex. That must be done outdoors due to the glue smell. We will get tropical storm force winds and a whole lot of rain from nearby Hurricane Irene this weekend, so they won't get covered. If the power doesn't go off I may stick the speakers in and cut loose though.
I have connected all of the other speakers to an amp, but you can't tell much without a box. The boxes get built in woodshop class or outdoors on weekends. Woodshop has been off for the summer, but starts back next week, and it's just too hot to make speakers outside right now.
I still need to stick some cheap car speakers in a styrofoam cooler though!
Really, any clip would work just fine for the basic task.
Since there are so many variables between pickups, even of the same brand, then factor in microphones, playing & recording techniques , a standard clip used as a simple baseline makes some sense.
Nothing fancy is really needed.
Here is one of my old 6AQ5 SE amps, it was recorded eq neutral.
Shure SM57, Strat plus, a hint of post reverb.
http://home.mchsi.com/my_mcintosh_240/6aq5.wma
Stick that on the old IPOD and let it rip. Then flip the voicing switches and or knobs and repeat.
Its not a perfect plan, but it is still better than comparing apples to oranges or watermelons to grapes.
Sooner or later they'll have to and I am here waiting for that moment to say how lousy their amps sound and how rubbish their guitar playing is. Not really. People are sensitive to criticism even if it comes from a schmuck like me. I have no desire to hurt anyone's feelings, only wdcw's. The thing is, you can be talented designing electronic gear but it is really difficult to be at the same time a talented musician. You can't have it all and if you do you're in serious trouble.
I strongly disagree. One million ordinary heads are no match for a great one. And then if we had one million brilliant heads it would be a mess, what would you do with them? A lot of hands are useful though.
To create magic you need chance, luck, skills and time. Maybe it will happen or maybe not.
The world is terrible unbalanced. We have many good guitar amps around and many good players but we don't have many good music. Many skilled hands but many great minds? I don't think so. Players like Vai have skilled hands, some guitar amp builders have also very skilled hands but we need something else...something is missing. I'd go and ask Gob why this is so if I knew where to find him.
Gday Cassiel,
Hahaha, I think Criticism is a good thing & if people take it the wrong way then they should have a long hard look at themselves.
To many people these days have there head up there behind & can't look at reality.
Whatever happened to a man being a man for a change.
Yes, BUT, 1million ordinary heads will come up with 1 million silly idea's that one great mind turns into reality!
How many stupid idea's have turned out to be great when thought of differently.
I wish you wouldn't say things I have to agree with, it takes all the fun out of it haha!
How do you get these smiley face Icons to work, I put them there but they never show up?
I think it's the people in the world that are unbalanced, the majority of the population lives as if there is no tomorrow with little respect for anything other than themselves.
As far as music goes, it's all to electronic these days.
BB king said a few years back that he never thought it would happen but finally even the music has lost the rythm.
I suspect he is right.
Keep that handbag primed & ready haha!
Cheers
For simple tests maybe a synthetic guitar would work. "Sample Tank" is free now. It will make some guitar-like sounds and you can use the included loops or play the guitar samples with a MIDI keyboard.
SampleTank FREE
the same company also has a free version of "Amplitube" which is a pretty good guitar amp simulator. Amplitube Free has a few amps and other gear and you can play with it. If you want to compare your amp to a "baseline" and you don't happen to own a pile of clasic tube amps get Amplitube. It works well assuming you have decent monitor speakers on the computer.
With effort one could go to one of those sites that has Guitar tabs, use a program like Guitar Pro 6 to convert the ASCII tabs into MIDI files. (there is a free demo version of GP) Render to audio then output that to your amp. If you Goole you can find tabs for any song you can think of. (But quality varies)
This will get you started
Led Zeppelin tabs - ( 284 guitar tabs )
then cut and past into GP6
Lots of options if you don't have a guitar or can't play. (learning to play is not unreasonable. Anyone can learn 3 or 4 chords and a few notes, maybe a scale in a few weeks)
Actually, with your head in that position you have a pretty good view of today's reality. Hehe.
I think it is pretty uncommon to find a man these days, you guys have a lot of sheep though.
Yes, but then those ideas aren't stupid anymore.
It is and it has a horseshoe inside.
Well, I can feel some mods getting uncomfortable with our little chat. It's slighty off topic. But in a long thread like this you sometimes get sidetracked. Please understand. I will record my demo in September. Right now I'm relaxing. Good luck with your amps. This is a great thread.