Have to add my .02 Even if its elementary to 99.9% of all who read it.. Heck, it about adds up to about all of my knowledge, so time to show off 
Saying its voltage we hear is like saying things fall because of their weight.
Gravity is what causes weight.
Amperage is the actual amount of electrons moving past a certain point. (My 9th grade science teacher is smiling) I think, what gets folks twisted is understandable. Without voltage, or potential, current cannot flow. (Hard stop)
I think the finer detail is even a little voltage can allow a lot of current to flow.
I can weld metal with my 12V truck battery.... I can weld with a 6v forklift battery. Yet, static electricity (many thousands of volts) leaves barley a mark.
As said before, current creates the magnetic field, and is what we hear.
So, Joe, your my senior, so I know I don't have to point out that anything easy is never worthwhile...
Thank you for your hard work. Thank you for creating these.
Saying its voltage we hear is like saying things fall because of their weight.
Gravity is what causes weight.
Amperage is the actual amount of electrons moving past a certain point. (My 9th grade science teacher is smiling) I think, what gets folks twisted is understandable. Without voltage, or potential, current cannot flow. (Hard stop)
I think the finer detail is even a little voltage can allow a lot of current to flow.
I can weld metal with my 12V truck battery.... I can weld with a 6v forklift battery. Yet, static electricity (many thousands of volts) leaves barley a mark.
As said before, current creates the magnetic field, and is what we hear.
So, Joe, your my senior, so I know I don't have to point out that anything easy is never worthwhile...
Thank you for your hard work. Thank you for creating these.
Writing too quickly about impressions after any change is a trap. And especially the title "I like" them. Time and reflection are highly recommended. Sometimes outside help too
Yes
Thanks for your measurements BTW. It's safe to say your amp isn't upset by current phase shift. There is a slight decrease in distortion too without the networks which would be expected with a well behaved amp.
Voltage drive or current drive refer NOT on what's the driver experiencing (it does both) but on which physical parameter the amplifier reproduces signals to: that is, the closed-loop parameter.
What we want: air vibrations as close as possible to original sound.
What the amp does: modulate output voltage or current delivered to drivers, through a more or less high series impedance.
What's in-between: an electro-mechanical and non-linear device: the driver. It does not produce an air vibration which is exactly the current flowing through it nor the voltage across it.
What we should be looking for: an amplifier, closing its control loop on the driver's cone position, NOT on current or voltage from the voice-coil as none of these two parameters is exaclty what we are actually hearing ...
Kal.
What we want: air vibrations as close as possible to original sound.
What the amp does: modulate output voltage or current delivered to drivers, through a more or less high series impedance.
What's in-between: an electro-mechanical and non-linear device: the driver. It does not produce an air vibration which is exactly the current flowing through it nor the voltage across it.
What we should be looking for: an amplifier, closing its control loop on the driver's cone position, NOT on current or voltage from the voice-coil as none of these two parameters is exaclty what we are actually hearing ...
Kal.
I mean: why seeking for vanishing distorsion levels at the output of the amp? That's not what we are hearing and any driver has orders of magnitude higher distorsion figures. The system is flawed from the start: the transducer is not into the controlled loop, so we only get what it gives, not what we initially drive the amplifier with.
Makes sense?
Kal
Makes sense?
Kal
The only measurement of current I've seen is at the amplifier output terminals, a measurement of the current at the driver terminals would be interesting, how this correlates with what we hear could easily be measured and yet no one seems interested enough to do that, they'd rather just repeat the mantra above.
The Elsinore is a great solution to the issue of amp compatibility and should allow almost any amplifier to drive them with ease, a very good idea.
Connecting an amp directly to a driver (multi-amping) is certainly the way to make a driver happy Then one can play with mixed mode feedback Current Drive
Connecting an amp directly to a driver (multi-amping) is certainly the way to make a driver happy
Then one can play with mixed mode feedback Current Drive
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I don't think that's what "multi amping" is about.
The advantage of active systems ("multi amping") is that xover filters can be difficult to implement with the conventional "passive" systems ("amp -> xover -> drivers" setup"): high-order filters, low-frequency filters with large inductors, etc. Filters for active systems can typically use much smaller, lower-power parts that are easier and cheaper to manufacture at high quality. Active filters don't need to worry about the frequency-dependent driver impedance. Also, DSP filters are common and extremely flexible and powerful tools for active systems, but are not available in the "passive" world.
As far as I can tell, the voltage / current phase angle is not an important point.
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Hello, someone saw my 24 Peerless 830875 HDS Nomex 6 1/2" midwoofs on the swap-meet forum and suggested I mention them on this forum. Here's the link:
Premium Peerless HDS Midwoofs need a home
Premium Peerless HDS Midwoofs need a home
Sure, that is the main idea... it solves both concerns, though not aiming at the second one(current at output of amp = driver's current)
Not changing the subject, changing the subject lol…
If measure the voltage sent to the Elsinores with a dmm with max selected, than square the result and divided by 6.4 (what i measured the dcr of the speaker of) is that a reasonably close approximation of output wattage?
If so, holy cheeze wiz, i hardly use more than .25 of a watt !?! If this is accurate even when the wife isn't home, id bet i ever use 1???
Forget Db conversions to wattage based on efficiency stuff, what is a more professional way to determine what wattage I listen to on a daily basis?
If measure the voltage sent to the Elsinores with a dmm with max selected, than square the result and divided by 6.4 (what i measured the dcr of the speaker of) is that a reasonably close approximation of output wattage?
If so, holy cheeze wiz, i hardly use more than .25 of a watt !?! If this is accurate even when the wife isn't home, id bet i ever use 1???
Forget Db conversions to wattage based on efficiency stuff, what is a more professional way to determine what wattage I listen to on a daily basis?
Sure, that is the main idea... it solves both concerns, though not aiming at the second one(current at output of amp = driver's current)
Both concerns? I don't think the "current phase" is a concern
.
No, current phase is not a concern. Concern to me would be that we pay much attention to amp's output distorsion level (whatever the chosen control parameter), but who measures what's fed into the drivers from a distorsion standpoint? We put great care in Xover component selection for it not to distort voltage/current but what about relative phases of the initial signal harmonics? are we sure they are not altered?
Further on: who could say that even a single tone, fed to a given xover filter, after having reached the Xover outputs and been reproduced by the 2 or more drivers of a loudspeaker, still faithfully recompose a distorsion-free single tone air vibration??
I'm not sure at all that such end-of-the-chain distorsion figures are in same ballpark than the nice ones measured at the amp's output screws...(my concern for thoughts)
Further on: who could say that even a single tone, fed to a given xover filter, after having reached the Xover outputs and been reproduced by the 2 or more drivers of a loudspeaker, still faithfully recompose a distorsion-free single tone air vibration??
I'm not sure at all that such end-of-the-chain distorsion figures are in same ballpark than the nice ones measured at the amp's output screws...(my concern for thoughts)
Sorry about posting while under the influence (Vino...) And on my android...
Unless Im missing something, that post is to determine what you need at maximum ?
That said, I did the tones, and my typical volume levels are at .160 volts..
The highest I typically listened is 3.29 volts.
The Elsinore's are amazing to me.
According to the link you provided, I need 11W and typically listen to 1/39th of a watt lol...
I'd be the first to do all the measurements and post them here if I had the means, unfortunately I don't.