The dirty little secret of horns.

[gedlee]

The safest way to hear the mix as intended is through a good flat speaker in a good room ...

 

[peteleoni]

I also love binaural recordings, which of course *require* headphones. A whole different subject.

 

[spekr]

This is just the way it is.

I agree but it's also not HiFi

 

[gedlee]

The safest way to hear the mix as intended is through a good flat speaker in a good room, not through phones

This is the definition of "HiFi".

 

[spekr]

This is the definition of "HiFi".

Headphones can provide better virtual speakers and rooms than what can be done in the real world hence they are even more HiFi.

 

[bappe]

The challenge for me has always been finding a good enough room for my speakers and amp for control listening when doing on-site recordings. Headphones are for editing and mastering

//Anders

 

[gedlee]

Having worked with virtualization over headphones for decades, I can tell you with certainty that they are not perfect. Neither are loudspeakers, but they both have different problems.

 

[spekr]

I think we'll get there eventually. The tools and techniques are all available. The biggest obstacle is individualized HRTFs.
With object-based audio on the horizon new opportunities come up. The first home version of Dolby Atmos will support 34 speakers. Not very practical in the real world.

 

[gedlee]

I think the point is that we are not there yet, which is not what you were saying. You have to deal with the tactile feel of sound which headphones cannot do and that is not easy.

 

[peteleoni]

Headphones vary fr more per person than speakers in a room do. There is no way except with personal fitting buds to get around this, and even then, the best need muti drivers!

 

[peteleoni]

This buds for you, that one is for her etc. At least speakers are not fitted.

 

[winslow]

My big gripe with headphones is the tactile sensations...or complete lack of them. And there is no stage in front of you- only in the middle of your head.

But then again I am not a huge can-phile.

 

[spekr]

I think the point is that we are not there yet, which is not what you were saying.

For the record, I've said, "If you want HiFi you want headphones. Speakers in rooms is an ill-conceived concept."

You have to deal with the tactile feel of sound which headphones cannot do and that is not easy.

What significant tactile effects are there a buttkicker can't solve?

 

[spekr]

My big gripe with headphones is the tactile sensations...or complete lack of them. And there is no stage in front of you- only in the middle of your head.

But then again I am not a huge can-phile.

Add HRTF processing and all sounds are localized outside your head. Try this one with headphones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUDTlvagjJA

 

[wesayso]

For the record, I've said, "If you want HiFi you want headphones. Speakers in rooms is an ill-conceived concept."

Yet you want to emulate (virtual) speakers in a (virtual) room while using headphones:

Headphones can provide better virtual speakers and rooms than what can be done in the real world hence they are even more HiFi.

 

[peterbrorsson]

Yet you want to emulate (virtual) speakers in a (virtual) room while using headphones:

…one good room of course! Not 80 million different rooms…

 

[TerryO]

My big gripe with headphones is the tactile sensations...or complete lack of them. And there is no stage in front of you- only in the middle of your head.

But then again I am not a huge can-phile.

The "Tactile sensations" are nearly all bone conduction and Headphones (by themselves) don't provide that. However, the advantage of Binaural (for those that have never listened to binaural) is that there is no sound stage in the middle of your head! Everything is in the same spacial relationship that existed at the site of the actual recording. For whatever reason, it's really never caught on in North America (and evidently, Europe as well?). However, it seems there is quite a bit more activity in Asia.

One additional note: Binaural recordings played back in a conventional stereo speaker system can also sound very nice as well.

Best Regards,
TerryO

 

[spekr]

Yet you want to emulate (virtual) speakers in a (virtual) room while using headphones:

Nothing I want but a necessity. Virtually all recordings are made for playback with crosstalk between channels.
If you like perfect crosstalk-cancelled playback then just press a button. Want to try another room? Just press a button.

The virtual speaker would be better in virtually any aspect compared to any real speaker regardless of price. Physics prevents real speakers to perform as good as headphones.

 

[gedlee]

My big gripe with headphones is the tactile sensations...or complete lack of them. And there is no stage in front of you- only in the middle of your head.

That problem can be solved with DSP, its not that hard.

For the record, I've said, "If you want HiFi you want headphones. Speakers in rooms is an ill-conceived concept."

What significant tactile effects are there a buttkicker can't solve?

Its not that simple. LF sound comes at you through all channels, the structure, the air, etc. and you have to get the blend right of the effect isn't right. I know this from noise control studies in cars. It is a much harder problem to recreate the sound of a car than music, but for car noise you must have tactile or no one is convinced. For many forms of music this would also be the case. A violin solo, not so much.

 

[peteleoni]

One of my tricks is to mix hip through ambient car noise generated with a cheap surround set.

^ There you go engineer guys who watch........ I will give that one away free, as I have just about enjoyed all I the biz I can stand for a while.