Exactly, I think we're all in violent agreement.
And then it will be, by definition, cuttable as a normal record without frightening the horses or mastering engineers, whichever are more easily spooked.
If the mastering equipment really has a fundamental hard eq hf roll-off at 30kHz that can't be defeated, then half-speed mastering will extend that to beyond 50kHz. Or cut it at 33rpm and play back at 45rpm?
There's nothing magic about frequency, it's only a groove shape and that depends on level too. Playback stylus/cartridge only knows about curvature, and that's not unique to frequency.
So long as the level can occur in normal programme material it's a health-check performance indicator. I think some people who simply care about performance would like to know these things..........
They used to be available, with servo errors and bit errors included
LD
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Hi luckythedog,
So what will it take to have this project accepted by a mastering company? Is it one or two tracks that cant be guaranteed to our specs? A couple dollars on each copy extra? Is the centering a killer issue?
-Chris
Yes, the best one was Pierre Verany disc #2. NLA. Maybe another project once this one is completed.
So what will it take to have this project accepted by a mastering company? Is it one or two tracks that cant be guaranteed to our specs? A couple dollars on each copy extra? Is the centering a killer issue?
-Chris
You've just reminded me. I was playing some of my records on the CRD label the other night and was impressed by how well centered they were. Need to see if it says where they were pressed.
Speaking personally I would accept a few more $$ for single sides albums if that made the centering easier.
Speaking personally I would accept a few more $$ for single sides albums if that made the centering easier.
There’s a couple of issues.
Center hole tolerance issues can be minimized. It will depend on both the mastering / master and the manufacturer. Since these are two separate entities, many are unwilling to make a guarantee and speak in hypothetical terms. Also, those who handle both plating and manufacture tend to outsource their plating so aren’t in as much control of the process as one might assume.
This I don’t think is the main issue. We can’t get it perfect, we’ll have to accept the best tolerance we can get guaranteed and work with that. I think we can get close enough to be amenable to everyone.
Second issue and perhaps more daunting is the general project complexities. Also, I don’t think $1 or $2 per LP will be the difference. Some say they are worried about damaging their expensive cutter heads. They also say it’s substantially more work intensive. Most simply say “thanks for reaching out and yes this is interesting and here’s some general thoughts” but at the end of the day they’d “rather not” attempt the project. They look at it as a bit of a headache I think... the good mastering engineers are in high demand and perhaps just don’t want to deal with their work being scrutinized/ criticized in a public forum.
So, I think the main problem is not the limitations of the equipment, what can and can’t be cut or quality control issues or anything of that nature.
In my experience / opinion the greatest issue is getting a high quality mastering engineer who understands our needs to be willing to take on the project, period.
This is why we are stuck in fact finding / email correspondence rather than moving into production phase.... no one wants to say “let’s do it!” and have their work gone over with a fine toothed comb by a thousand DIYers in public.
They are making the same kind of cost / benefit / risk analysis that any thoughtful business owner would do and it’s just not looking enticing.
I will reproduce some information from my fact-finding emails but I don’t think it’s considerate to list their names or the companies here as I didn’t ask them to speak on the record and consider that a breach of trust.
Center hole tolerance issues can be minimized. It will depend on both the mastering / master and the manufacturer. Since these are two separate entities, many are unwilling to make a guarantee and speak in hypothetical terms. Also, those who handle both plating and manufacture tend to outsource their plating so aren’t in as much control of the process as one might assume.
This I don’t think is the main issue. We can’t get it perfect, we’ll have to accept the best tolerance we can get guaranteed and work with that. I think we can get close enough to be amenable to everyone.
Second issue and perhaps more daunting is the general project complexities. Also, I don’t think $1 or $2 per LP will be the difference. Some say they are worried about damaging their expensive cutter heads. They also say it’s substantially more work intensive. Most simply say “thanks for reaching out and yes this is interesting and here’s some general thoughts” but at the end of the day they’d “rather not” attempt the project. They look at it as a bit of a headache I think... the good mastering engineers are in high demand and perhaps just don’t want to deal with their work being scrutinized/ criticized in a public forum.
So, I think the main problem is not the limitations of the equipment, what can and can’t be cut or quality control issues or anything of that nature.
In my experience / opinion the greatest issue is getting a high quality mastering engineer who understands our needs to be willing to take on the project, period.
This is why we are stuck in fact finding / email correspondence rather than moving into production phase.... no one wants to say “let’s do it!” and have their work gone over with a fine toothed comb by a thousand DIYers in public.
They are making the same kind of cost / benefit / risk analysis that any thoughtful business owner would do and it’s just not looking enticing.
I will reproduce some information from my fact-finding emails but I don’t think it’s considerate to list their names or the companies here as I didn’t ask them to speak on the record and consider that a breach of trust.
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Everything you said here is exactly as I would expect. The onus on us is to make this look like something they do every day. Do we lose anything by simply asking for the entire project to be 1/2 speed mastered? We seem to keep getting caught up on issues around frequency or slew related extremes. Bass extension does not figure much in the things we are interested in.
Not to stick my head where it doesn’t belong but has anyone thought to contact Steve Albini in Chicago? While he is primarily known for his recording studio, his associate Bob Weston works at (runs?) Chicago Mastering Service Chicago Mastering Service--CD and Vinyl Mastering Facility in Chicago, IL
Some of the best pressed records I own are ones they’ve worked on, either through the aforementioned mastering service or Abbey Road, and pressed at RTI.
I mention it only because these guys are totally about DIY and are completely approachable.
Some of the best pressed records I own are ones they’ve worked on, either through the aforementioned mastering service or Abbey Road, and pressed at RTI.
I mention it only because these guys are totally about DIY and are completely approachable.
Not me.
I'm regularly in Chicago and would gladly do a visit if he has any interest. I'm not sure about how much involvement he has in the actual details of cutting. I certainly know he has no love of digital.Steve's site - Electrical Audio - Index
EDIT - I don't see hourly rates for Steve anymore only $900/day we would probably need to stick with friendly advice.
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The actual mastering would definitely be more in Bob Weston’s skill set but I only mentioned Steve because he’s pretty responsive to inquiries and might be willing to put in a good word and/or make a helpful suggestion.
Also, there may be folks on his forum interested in the Test LP
Bob Weston is also a forum member at Electrical Audio.
Also, there may be folks on his forum interested in the Test LP
Bob Weston is also a forum member at Electrical Audio.
