BIB work with RS 40-1354A speakers?
Terry Cain suggests nonfolded design works well with the RS speakers I have.
Can my speakers work with the design of ML TQWT by Martin King, as seen here? What modifications or adjustment do I need to make from the Fostex to RS spekers.
I know this is somewhat off topic but I like the form/design of the ML TQWT but limited to RS speakers at hand.
thanks,
gychang
Terry Cain suggests nonfolded design works well with the RS speakers I have.
Can my speakers work with the design of ML TQWT by Martin King, as seen here? What modifications or adjustment do I need to make from the Fostex to RS spekers.
I know this is somewhat off topic but I like the form/design of the ML TQWT but limited to RS speakers at hand.
thanks,
gychang
Are we talking RS 40-1354 here? If so, Bob Brines has an ML TQWT specially designed for this driver in Martin's MathCad software: http://www.geocities.com/rbrines1/Pages/Straight_Pipe.html
Re: BIB work with RS 40-1354A speakers?
Greets!
I answered this yesterday: http://fullrangedriver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=7708#p7708
GM
gychang said:
Greets!
I answered this yesterday: http://fullrangedriver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=7708#p7708
GM
BIB site down?!?
Hi there,
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib.asp does not respond, any idea please?
Godzilla?
best, LC
Hi there,
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib.asp does not respond, any idea please?
Godzilla?
best, LC
Re: Re: BIB work with RS 40-1354A speakers?
So you did Greg. My apologies. At least we're singing from the same hymn sheet though. (Or possibly a Lynyrd Skynyrd sheet, which I suspect would be my choice ;-)
Hi Jeff -I noticed your whole site was down too; hope it gets back up for you soon -no joke when it clobbers your business too. What was it, lightning taking out a pole or something?
Regards
Scott
GM said:
So you did Greg. My apologies. At least we're singing from the same hymn sheet though. (Or possibly a Lynyrd Skynyrd sheet, which I suspect would be my choice ;-)
Hi Jeff -I noticed your whole site was down too; hope it gets back up for you soon -no joke when it clobbers your business too. What was it, lightning taking out a pole or something?
Regards
Scott
Jeff's got his site back up -and more importantly I hope his business is running smoothly again.
Just sent some dims to him for inclusion on the pages for the F120a & FX120. Sorry it's taken so long to get these done. The FR plots look good though, and having a nice mid-Q and moderate Vas they're just about ideal IMO for this cabinet type. There's one for the late, lamented FX200 as well. Should couple to the room nicely.
Cheers
Scott
Just sent some dims to him for inclusion on the pages for the F120a & FX120. Sorry it's taken so long to get these done. The FR plots look good though, and having a nice mid-Q and moderate Vas they're just about ideal IMO for this cabinet type. There's one for the late, lamented FX200 as well. Should couple to the room nicely.
Cheers
Scott
FE168, room boundries etc.
Thanks for the replies on my FE168 query - drivers ordered from Madisound, go get cab panels cut (marine ply) this weekend.
Couple of questions:
1) Room boundries - having read as much as pos still a little hazy on psitioning a BIB. I imagine its shades of grey but how important is it to be as close as possible to rear wall and or side wall? I would be able to place approx 1/2" from rear wall and 4-6 inces from side walls - would I be getting benefit from side walls in this case? Also height of ceiling - I have 10' ceilings - will this mean I won't be driving the room so well?
2) Damping/series resistor - I have 3 transistor amps at my disposal (Gainclone, T-amp and 100watt Class A Plinius amp). The Plinius in particular will have a high damping factor so I would like to experiment with series resistor - what value should I try? I am guessing 2-4ohm to get a lowish damping factor - what results would you expect from this? my understanding is this is all around the driver being over-damped and the need to free it up so its the driver looking after the damping/control and not the amp.
TIA
Chris
Thanks for the replies on my FE168 query - drivers ordered from Madisound, go get cab panels cut (marine ply) this weekend.
Couple of questions:
1) Room boundries - having read as much as pos still a little hazy on psitioning a BIB. I imagine its shades of grey but how important is it to be as close as possible to rear wall and or side wall? I would be able to place approx 1/2" from rear wall and 4-6 inces from side walls - would I be getting benefit from side walls in this case? Also height of ceiling - I have 10' ceilings - will this mean I won't be driving the room so well?
2) Damping/series resistor - I have 3 transistor amps at my disposal (Gainclone, T-amp and 100watt Class A Plinius amp). The Plinius in particular will have a high damping factor so I would like to experiment with series resistor - what value should I try? I am guessing 2-4ohm to get a lowish damping factor - what results would you expect from this? my understanding is this is all around the driver being over-damped and the need to free it up so its the driver looking after the damping/control and not the amp.
TIA
Chris
Hi Chris
1) 1/2in from a rear wall is good. You'll still get a decent reflection from the side walls at 4-6in too, so I wouldn't worry about that. The 10ft ceiling isn't perhaps ideal, but I honestly can't see you having any problems either. Plenty of people have tried these without having corners at all, and still got good results, so you're actually in a pretty good position I reckon.
2) Right. See Admiral Nelson's article on current source amps with full-range drivers at www.firstwatt.com if you haven't already for more on this. 4ohms would be a good starting point for the Plinius -it'll run pretty hot though! The T-amp should be just about ideal as-is, as they're intrinsicaly low DF. I'm not sure about the Gainclone as there's so many variations, but I imagine that it, too, should do pretty well. You should get solid performance into the low 30Hz regions with this setup.
1) 1/2in from a rear wall is good. You'll still get a decent reflection from the side walls at 4-6in too, so I wouldn't worry about that. The 10ft ceiling isn't perhaps ideal, but I honestly can't see you having any problems either. Plenty of people have tried these without having corners at all, and still got good results, so you're actually in a pretty good position I reckon.
2) Right. See Admiral Nelson's article on current source amps with full-range drivers at www.firstwatt.com if you haven't already for more on this. 4ohms would be a good starting point for the Plinius -it'll run pretty hot though! The T-amp should be just about ideal as-is, as they're intrinsicaly low DF. I'm not sure about the Gainclone as there's so many variations, but I imagine that it, too, should do pretty well. You should get solid performance into the low 30Hz regions with this setup.
Hi Chris!
I have 56 inches BIB's in a room with 9 foot ceilings, placed flush against a wall, no corners. I use a smaller (5 inch) speaker and the room is about 50 sqm. With this setup they are not lacking bass. It is way more than your eyes tell you.
On the contrary I would say, if placed in corners, it would overwhelm the mids and highs. I am by no means expert in this area and it is not the same speakers. Scottmoose and some others have built more of these so they could maybe give some advice.
My Genelec studio monitors (1800 EURO/pair) has been replaced by 60 EURO BIB's!!! They have not all the benefits of the Genelec's, but the general sound of them make them more easy to listen to. Hard to describe but even my wife prefers them compaired to my monitors.
Good luck!
Peter
I have 56 inches BIB's in a room with 9 foot ceilings, placed flush against a wall, no corners. I use a smaller (5 inch) speaker and the room is about 50 sqm. With this setup they are not lacking bass. It is way more than your eyes tell you.
On the contrary I would say, if placed in corners, it would overwhelm the mids and highs. I am by no means expert in this area and it is not the same speakers. Scottmoose and some others have built more of these so they could maybe give some advice.
My Genelec studio monitors (1800 EURO/pair) has been replaced by 60 EURO BIB's!!! They have not all the benefits of the Genelec's, but the general sound of them make them more easy to listen to. Hard to describe but even my wife prefers them compaired to my monitors.
Good luck!
Peter
A common affect I believe. Wait 'till you hear a pair with Fostex drvers.
Although nominally corner horns, because they're a) an So=0 design, and b) are tuned to 1/2 wavelength, they do get a heck of a lot of gain in the LF, so experimentation is the key. Near a corner is a good place to start. If the LF is too hefty, either pull them forward a bit, keeping them near the side wall, or in a bit, keeping them near the rear wall. One thing I can promise: bass will not be a problem. The test pair I had with 5in Monacor SPH-60Xs (currently at a friend's house in Salford) were still bellowing at 40Hz, and they didn't sound the least bit strained either.
Hi Scott,
I still consider which driver to choose in order to upgrade my Monacors. Neo-fone, Cantare, Supravox, Fostex and what else!!!
And next pair will be made in plywood for sure.
Sweet choices huh?
Unfortunately I had an accident with my car and I`m the clumsy bastard! It will cost and speakers has to wait
BTW, I have compared the whizzerless Monacors and original version. I think that the whizzer belongs where it's placed from the beginning. Whithout, it starts to fall in level around 7 kHz.
Otherwise the mod with some holes in the dust cap works good.
A bit more clear midrange.(Or am I bitten by the Mcgyver-homemade-inventor syndrom? )
Cheers
I still consider which driver to choose in order to upgrade my Monacors. Neo-fone, Cantare, Supravox, Fostex and what else!!!
And next pair will be made in plywood for sure.
Sweet choices huh?
Unfortunately I had an accident with my car and I`m the clumsy bastard! It will cost and speakers has to wait
BTW, I have compared the whizzerless Monacors and original version. I think that the whizzer belongs where it's placed from the beginning. Whithout, it starts to fall in level around 7 kHz.
Otherwise the mod with some holes in the dust cap works good.
A bit more clear midrange.(Or am I bitten by the Mcgyver-homemade-inventor syndrom?
)Cheers
Possibly Dave's RS40-1354 phase plugs would be the answer. I can't measure my drivers at present as they're on the other side of the country, but I suspect they should fit.
The Fostex range are the safest option -lots of drivers that work well -the 165, 166 and 168 being the pick of the bunch. The Neo-phones could be interesting, but I suspect they'd need some help up-top. A Supravox 165LB in a properly optimised enclosure could also be well owrth investigating. I just wish it could go a bit lower as the 65Hz Fs means a shortish enclosure, and the lack of vertical capacity forces a large footprint to get the necessary Vb.
The Fostex range are the safest option -lots of drivers that work well -the 165, 166 and 168 being the pick of the bunch. The Neo-phones could be interesting, but I suspect they'd need some help up-top. A Supravox 165LB in a properly optimised enclosure could also be well owrth investigating. I just wish it could go a bit lower as the 65Hz Fs means a shortish enclosure, and the lack of vertical capacity forces a large footprint to get the necessary Vb.
More FE168 stuff
Thanks again for the answers re 168 BIB.
FE168s have arrived and put them in my FT1600 cabs to run in. Usual nasal pre break in Fostex sound but the bass is very good already as is imaging/soundstage and detail. Obviously lotsa potential, looking forward to them improving over time. The 168 build quality is awesome, make the 167s look very flimsy.
Cabinets half complete. I invested in 10 clamps, using them and having accurately cut panels has made the building process a pleasure. Far superior in terms of accuracy and speed to the old corner batten/screw and glue method I have used in the past, wish I had bought a set of clamps years ago.
Scott,
Yes I had read the Nelson Pass article but I have to say my comprehention was not 100% ;-(
Once the 168s are built and run in somewhat I will gather my amps together for some comparisons. My recollection is that the chip amp (LM3875) sounded best with the 167s tho I have a bit of a problem in believing that the chip amps can compete with a multi $k 100 class A beast! Guess it’s a matter of matching drivers to amps as much as anything. BTW does the BSC filter (inductor in // with resistor) count as a series resistor? Thinking not as the inductor passes low frequencies.
Cheers
Thanks again for the answers re 168 BIB.
FE168s have arrived and put them in my FT1600 cabs to run in. Usual nasal pre break in Fostex sound but the bass is very good already as is imaging/soundstage and detail. Obviously lotsa potential, looking forward to them improving over time. The 168 build quality is awesome, make the 167s look very flimsy.
Cabinets half complete. I invested in 10 clamps, using them and having accurately cut panels has made the building process a pleasure. Far superior in terms of accuracy and speed to the old corner batten/screw and glue method I have used in the past, wish I had bought a set of clamps years ago.
Scott,
Yes I had read the Nelson Pass article but I have to say my comprehention was not 100% ;-(
Once the 168s are built and run in somewhat I will gather my amps together for some comparisons. My recollection is that the chip amp (LM3875) sounded best with the 167s tho I have a bit of a problem in believing that the chip amps can compete with a multi $k 100 class A beast! Guess it’s a matter of matching drivers to amps as much as anything. BTW does the BSC filter (inductor in // with resistor) count as a series resistor? Thinking not as the inductor passes low frequencies.
Cheers
Right, it doesn't, although if you have a zobel you can tweak the response somewhat with the resistor. The BIBs usually don't require a BSC circuit, as they are designed for boundary reinforcement, which pretty much negates the effects of baffle-step.
Chips amps compete with multi $ amps? Oh yes. Providing you don't push them too hard, and full-range drivers are certainly not going to do that. Most big transitor jobs don't automatically do very well with single drivers -fine with Eq or additional series resistance of course, but it's not what they are designed for. They also have overheads, marketing etc etc etc to contend with. And remember, you have got another multi $ amp in the form of your chip amp. After all, that's what a certain product called the Gaincard costs... And it's internals are little different to any of the DIY varieties, and less well designed and developed than most I suspect.
Chips amps compete with multi $ amps? Oh yes. Providing you don't push them too hard, and full-range drivers are certainly not going to do that. Most big transitor jobs don't automatically do very well with single drivers -fine with Eq or additional series resistance of course, but it's not what they are designed for. They also have overheads, marketing etc etc etc to contend with. And remember, you have got another multi $ amp in the form of your chip amp. After all, that's what a certain product called the Gaincard costs... And it's internals are little different to any of the DIY varieties, and less well designed and developed than most I suspect.
orthodoxy..
ok, so scott...
I tried your advice to put a Cain and Cain style baffle on the cabinets - my BIBs.
it is a slab of hard maple, all burly and stuff. real nice looking. It is only 7 3/4 inches square though. sanded down a bit of the tung oil finish so I could glue it on.
glue is set after a day now.
this is a huge improvement. speed, bass, everything. 5 bucks in local wood...
why did i not listen to my elders before?
well, thanks for the nudge in that direction.
Clark
ok, so scott...
I tried your advice to put a Cain and Cain style baffle on the cabinets - my BIBs.
it is a slab of hard maple, all burly and stuff. real nice looking. It is only 7 3/4 inches square though. sanded down a bit of the tung oil finish so I could glue it on.
glue is set after a day now.
this is a huge improvement. speed, bass, everything. 5 bucks in local wood...
why did i not listen to my elders before?
well, thanks for the nudge in that direction.
Clark
ChrisMmm
Don't any longer associate $$$ with Kwality. A well implemented T amp bites hard at the heels of most comers. Chip amps have a warm and comfy home with wideband drivers, let there be no doubt. My BIB168 with Vinnie's Signature 30 T amp sounds sublime.
Scott
Glad your assessment of the mightly Monacors is the same as Louis' and Steve Monte. Quest for Sound now offers an Omega Monacor BR alignment. We know better.
Clark
Great news on the baffle. A square peg amongst some round ho's, so to speak.
Don't any longer associate $$$ with Kwality. A well implemented T amp bites hard at the heels of most comers. Chip amps have a warm and comfy home with wideband drivers, let there be no doubt. My BIB168 with Vinnie's Signature 30 T amp sounds sublime.
Scott
Glad your assessment of the mightly Monacors is the same as Louis' and Steve Monte. Quest for Sound now offers an Omega Monacor BR alignment. We know better.
Clark
Great news on the baffle. A square peg amongst some round ho's, so to speak.
Yeah, they really do help cut down on front-panel resonances, and depending on the size and shape, with wave-launch etc., and, I suspect, Terry's or the walunt supra-baffles seen on some of Dave & Chris's latest builds will also help scatter reflections from the driver surround. Larger ones will also affect baffle-step etc., I remember Greg going into this elsewhere a few months ago -can't remember exactly where though.
Those Monacors are the bargin of audio at present -you get more sound per £ from them than any other driver know. A pair costs £40UK approx, so you can experiment to your heart's content. Nice mid aprasmeters make them very flexible. They really shouldn't sound this good for so little money. Great little drivers, and perfect for those on a budget who want great sound, but can't stretch to the Fostex range. Great build too.
Those Monacors are the bargin of audio at present -you get more sound per £ from them than any other driver know. A pair costs £40UK approx, so you can experiment to your heart's content. Nice mid aprasmeters make them very flexible. They really shouldn't sound this good for so little money. Great little drivers, and perfect for those on a budget who want great sound, but can't stretch to the Fostex range. Great build too.
