Seconded. I'm no genius, but I've never had a problem. And the new sheets are stunners. I'm currently using them to provide 1/4 space responses for the existing suggested BIB enclosures on the 'Zilla pages. And bass horns of course. That disclaimer at the bottom of the main BIB page is there for a reason. I also use a lot of information contained in Martin's white papers etc., in initially sizing the enclosures I come up with, so I'm doubly bound. And I stick to it.
Perhaps a sticky could be put on here with that zip file
of Mathcad that Scott posted above.
I recall ages ago that when I was at Quarterwave I was
not getting any obvious links to the zip file which I am
downloading now.
So if this clears up the problem, then something has been
accomplished.
of Mathcad that Scott posted above.
I recall ages ago that when I was at Quarterwave I was
not getting any obvious links to the zip file which I am
downloading now.
So if this clears up the problem, then something has been
accomplished.
Scottmoose said:
Just as a followup:
The zip was bug free and unpacked fine in Stuffit
expander.
I didn't see any noticeable errors in the program
load but could someone start a fresh thread on
getting the thing working? I know some of the
old cowhands are not interested in this. I'm
looking for those who are.
Also I have used the afterdawn.com site for many
guides for multi-media. These guides include screen
shots and step by step for using program content.
Sometimes this is as simple as importing the screen
shots to a thread like this which shows a complete
process. Perhaps a regular user of Mathcad can put
a tutorial together.
Well, today I feel like I have found another piece of
the elephant after working on the tail for a few years.
;-)
Hi
this page on Dave's t-linespeakers.org helped me alot getting into the MJK MathCad worksheets.
For the ones who are able to read and understand german, here's another link that will help: Hifi-Selbstbau.
best, LC
this page on Dave's t-linespeakers.org helped me alot getting into the MJK MathCad worksheets.
For the ones who are able to read and understand german, here's another link that will help: Hifi-Selbstbau.
best, LC
Enjoy. As noted above, you might find the guide on www.t-linespeakers.org of use. Also, Martin's own projects and papers discuss how best to use it. Bob has some articles on his views regarding QW dasign that's well worth a read too.
Frankly, using these MathCad worksheets isn't particularly difficult. Remember, Martin's done all the hard math for you. The first bit is easy; just enter the T/S parameters of your driver. Qt doesn;t need changing, watch it when you entre Qm and Qe -it'll work out the correct total Q value itself (much more accurate than the manufacturers quote, which is often rounded up or down)
The next data entry part again is pretty straight forward. Internal dimensions of the speaker cabinet. The tricky part is of course knowing what sort of dims will get you into the general area where you could have something workable. For that, you do need to read up a bit on the theory I'm afraid; there's no short cuts. Martin's articles, and the one of t-line speakers will help there. I actually wrote an informal guide myself to designing using the worksheets, months back, but I seem to have deleted it now. Typical.
Frankly, using these MathCad worksheets isn't particularly difficult. Remember, Martin's done all the hard math for you. The first bit is easy; just enter the T/S parameters of your driver. Qt doesn;t need changing, watch it when you entre Qm and Qe -it'll work out the correct total Q value itself (much more accurate than the manufacturers quote, which is often rounded up or down)
The next data entry part again is pretty straight forward. Internal dimensions of the speaker cabinet. The tricky part is of course knowing what sort of dims will get you into the general area where you could have something workable. For that, you do need to read up a bit on the theory I'm afraid; there's no short cuts. Martin's articles, and the one of t-line speakers will help there. I actually wrote an informal guide myself to designing using the worksheets, months back, but I seem to have deleted it now. Typical.
I have a suspicion they'll be good. The enginnering that I've seen looks decent enough -a poor man's Jordan perhaps? Here's hoping.
A few bass horn variations sent to 'Zilla today. We'll hopefully add a few more over the coming weeks, though we'll keep numbers down as the appeal is naturally a little more limited. They're bass extenders, not subwoofers though at this time. Might do a sub variation at some point, but a word of warning: it'll be very large. A few other variations will appear too soon.
Cheers guys -any further progression on builds BTW?
Scott
A few bass horn variations sent to 'Zilla today. We'll hopefully add a few more over the coming weeks, though we'll keep numbers down as the appeal is naturally a little more limited. They're bass extenders, not subwoofers though at this time. Might do a sub variation at some point, but a word of warning: it'll be very large. A few other variations will appear too soon.
Cheers guys -any further progression on builds BTW?
Scott
Hi all!
I got Scott’s bass extender designs today (thanks Scott!). I have a few from a couple months ago too and will post them next week. Basically, they are tall slim BIB like designs using a woofer for deep bass rather than a full range driver. The charts suggest good extension to about 30 – 35hz. None of the designs get to a strong 20hz. Even tho they are large cabinets their design suits corner placement and takes up little floor space (because they are tall and slim). Imagine small monitor speakers with one or two BassBIBs in the corner.
Peace,
Godzilla
I got Scott’s bass extender designs today (thanks Scott!). I have a few from a couple months ago too and will post them next week. Basically, they are tall slim BIB like designs using a woofer for deep bass rather than a full range driver. The charts suggest good extension to about 30 – 35hz. None of the designs get to a strong 20hz. Even tho they are large cabinets their design suits corner placement and takes up little floor space (because they are tall and slim). Imagine small monitor speakers with one or two BassBIBs in the corner.
Peace,
Godzilla
FE103's make more bass than is reasonable in a BIB
the fe103's produce a surprising amount of bass using the larger 49" opening.
I built some last week for my sister and they sound quite good -
for the 103's - i used the following dimensions: 5 and 7/8" wide by 8 and 3/8 deep using 3/4" fir ply.
the height of the box calls for 42 and 1/2" - I mitred the corners of 48" panels and put a base in at 42.5"
I will likely add legs (behind the side panels and up to the base) to raise it up about a foot so that it is overall 5' high, then put speaker cloth over the top opening. I want to try an oval 'suprabaffle' long side up to mount the driver in - I will likely have it extend about 2" beyond the sides ( so about a 10X14 oval) I will use 3/4" material for it.
so far I have carpet on the backside of the internal baffle to within about 6" of the top and on the base.
the drivers are new and I may need some stuffing above the driver yet - will likely try carpet there combined with the 'suprabaffle' first and see how they sound.
I will post some pix next week maybe, if I get a chance to get back into the shop.
Leonard
ps -these are extremely good bang for the buck: about $70 for a pair of 103's and less than a sheet of ply.
pps- thanks everyone for the information and inspiration.
the fe103's produce a surprising amount of bass using the larger 49" opening.
I built some last week for my sister and they sound quite good -
for the 103's - i used the following dimensions: 5 and 7/8" wide by 8 and 3/8 deep using 3/4" fir ply.
the height of the box calls for 42 and 1/2" - I mitred the corners of 48" panels and put a base in at 42.5"
I will likely add legs (behind the side panels and up to the base) to raise it up about a foot so that it is overall 5' high, then put speaker cloth over the top opening. I want to try an oval 'suprabaffle' long side up to mount the driver in - I will likely have it extend about 2" beyond the sides ( so about a 10X14 oval) I will use 3/4" material for it.
so far I have carpet on the backside of the internal baffle to within about 6" of the top and on the base.
the drivers are new and I may need some stuffing above the driver yet - will likely try carpet there combined with the 'suprabaffle' first and see how they sound.
I will post some pix next week maybe, if I get a chance to get back into the shop.
Leonard
ps -these are extremely good bang for the buck: about $70 for a pair of 103's and less than a sheet of ply.
pps- thanks everyone for the information and inspiration.
You're welcome. Make good value for money don't they.
I'm going to be trying just that with a pair of Monacor drivers in BIBs and Dave's modified FE126s on OB while I'm building a pair of dedicated horns for the latter.
We can give you sub-bass guys, down to around 20Hz anyway, but they won't be pure BIBs. And they'll be 8' tall. As it stands, the dip in the response we all know of at ~100Hz will shift lower in frequency with decreasing Fs, right where we don't want it, so some major alterations are required in terms of the driver position and stuffing to mitigate against it. There are better ways of doing the extreme bottom end IMO; I'll get a modified BIB sub to Jeff shortly, and also one of the different ways -not a BIB as I say, but it might still find a home on the pages, as they have a bit in common.
Cheers
Scott
Godzilla said:
I'm going to be trying just that with a pair of Monacor drivers in BIBs and Dave's modified FE126s on OB while I'm building a pair of dedicated horns for the latter.
We can give you sub-bass guys, down to around 20Hz anyway, but they won't be pure BIBs. And they'll be 8' tall. As it stands, the dip in the response we all know of at ~100Hz will shift lower in frequency with decreasing Fs, right where we don't want it, so some major alterations are required in terms of the driver position and stuffing to mitigate against it. There are better ways of doing the extreme bottom end IMO; I'll get a modified BIB sub to Jeff shortly, and also one of the different ways -not a BIB as I say, but it might still find a home on the pages, as they have a bit in common.
Cheers
Scott
Variation on the FF225K theme. I'd built a pair for a friend before Christmas, and they've been playing ever since. However, his better half has just forced a change in furniture, and the drivers, which were already a bit high, are now way off-axis. So he asked me if a shorter version is possible. It is. Final cut off is a bit higher, obviously, but otherwise things look similar, and they should still produce plenty of LF. The FFs are very under-rated -probably due to that small Xmax, but it doesn't appear to be a problem when horn-loaded -without room-gain these are still about 94.5db 1w input efficient at the worst, and that's before you bring the average ~3db -6db boost you'll get from rear / side wall or corner placement. My 165s have never even come close to sounding strained.
Line length 138in
Zdriver 28in
Sm=118.125in^2
Line length 138in
Zdriver 28in
Sm=118.125in^2
Attachments
FE168 in FE167 BIB?
I am currently listening to a pair of FE167 drivers in Bob Brines cabs - sound well beyond my expectations. But having read this thread start to finish I now NEED to build some BIB cabs. Ultimately I will get some FE168EZ Sigma drivers as these seem to be the way to go. My thinking is to build some BIBs for the 167s and put the 168s in at a later date. So my question is, using the 168 sigmas will the 167 cab sound any worse than the 168 cab? If I am wasting my time fitting 168s into 167 cabs I will simply build the correct ones however what I read seems to indicate relatively small increases in line length and Sm should have little effect. Maybe I could even ask some kind person to do a sim of the FE168 Sigma in the FE167 cab (L=136", Sm= 87.75, zd=27.5).
Also my room has 10' ceilings, I have read something regards room gain and speaker/ceiling height but mainly around smaller BIBs. Does a 10' ceiling pose a problem for this BIB?
At the risk of boring you a small bit of background: I have built many speakers in the past 30 years including 6 or so TL designs of differing types. I would have to say the FE167 in Brines cabs exceeded my expectations way beyond any other speaker project. I had been running 6' B&G RD75 ribbon drivers with Adire 12" subs - pretty awesome sound. However early this year one of the RD75s went open circuit so I built the FE167s to tide me over till repairs complete (shipping driver from New Zealand to US very time consuming). Having put around 80 hours on them I put them in my main system - tho as expected they sounded quite different to the ribbons it was the midrange that I particularly liked as well as the clean bass extension (note the RD75s crossover @ 125hz so are nearly full range). Ultimately I have decided I prefer listening to the 167s (improving all the time) and, tho I never expected this, the ribbons will go!
Cheers,
Chris
I am currently listening to a pair of FE167 drivers in Bob Brines cabs - sound well beyond my expectations. But having read this thread start to finish I now NEED to build some BIB cabs. Ultimately I will get some FE168EZ Sigma drivers as these seem to be the way to go. My thinking is to build some BIBs for the 167s and put the 168s in at a later date. So my question is, using the 168 sigmas will the 167 cab sound any worse than the 168 cab? If I am wasting my time fitting 168s into 167 cabs I will simply build the correct ones however what I read seems to indicate relatively small increases in line length and Sm should have little effect. Maybe I could even ask some kind person to do a sim of the FE168 Sigma in the FE167 cab (L=136", Sm= 87.75, zd=27.5).
Also my room has 10' ceilings, I have read something regards room gain and speaker/ceiling height but mainly around smaller BIBs. Does a 10' ceiling pose a problem for this BIB?
At the risk of boring you a small bit of background: I have built many speakers in the past 30 years including 6 or so TL designs of differing types. I would have to say the FE167 in Brines cabs exceeded my expectations way beyond any other speaker project. I had been running 6' B&G RD75 ribbon drivers with Adire 12" subs - pretty awesome sound. However early this year one of the RD75s went open circuit so I built the FE167s to tide me over till repairs complete (shipping driver from New Zealand to US very time consuming). Having put around 80 hours on them I put them in my main system - tho as expected they sounded quite different to the ribbons it was the midrange that I particularly liked as well as the clean bass extension (note the RD75s crossover @ 125hz so are nearly full range). Ultimately I have decided I prefer listening to the 167s (improving all the time) and, tho I never expected this, the ribbons will go!
Cheers,
Chris
ChrisMmm
--then you are in for a treat! Having heard both, the BIB.168 is further along the evolutionary line; these things have an effortlessness of sound, and superior presentation, and bass response. The Fostex FE168EZ is just an outstanding driver, extremely musical, and ever-improving, it seems. Pick of the litter, says I.
Anyone intend to build the Jumbo Hemp or Visaton BIB?
--then you are in for a treat! Having heard both, the BIB.168 is further along the evolutionary line; these things have an effortlessness of sound, and superior presentation, and bass response. The Fostex FE168EZ is just an outstanding driver, extremely musical, and ever-improving, it seems. Pick of the litter, says I.
Anyone intend to build the Jumbo Hemp or Visaton BIB?
Chris
Well, they'll certainly be different. I have tremendous respect for Bob's cabinets and designs; they really are extremely good. It's difficult to compare the two as they have different prorities; the BIBs are traditional corner horns, so have a different character.
Personally, I'd simply build the Sigma cabinets, and keep your MLTLs intact, so you can swap between them. Both are great, in different ways. And from what I hear about the Sigmas, they really are a great step up from the already excellent 'standard' drivers.
Well, they'll certainly be different. I have tremendous respect for Bob's cabinets and designs; they really are extremely good. It's difficult to compare the two as they have different prorities; the BIBs are traditional corner horns, so have a different character.
Personally, I'd simply build the Sigma cabinets, and keep your MLTLs intact, so you can swap between them. Both are great, in different ways. And from what I hear about the Sigmas, they really are a great step up from the already excellent 'standard' drivers.