MuaDibb said:
I thought about poplar. A better material in some respects I don't doubt, but the heartwood has a greenish color that I don't really dig, and I didn't see boards wide enough to use without jointing. I'll save that for a later project, as I don't have a jointer.
I'm using pine as a cheap (compared to nice hardwoods) and easy (no big sheets to rip, no splintery plywood edges to mess with, no MDF nastiness) way to play with the BIB concept. And to get better in the wood shop. I'm long out of practice, it's been over ten years since my last woodworking project (an ultralight canoe). I wouldn't recommend that anyone take my posts as any more of an endorsement than that!
I don't expect the pine to be particularly 'dead', or necessarily stable in the long run. If true Baltic Birch ply was available here in sheets long enough to build a BB I would have used it.
If I was looking for absolute accuracy and neutrality, I'd be building something other than a BIB. These are about building something inexpensive, different and fun, and hoping they will look and sound good. The next pair, whatever thay are, should look and sound even better!
Tweeker said:
Im confused by this statements language. Could you please clear up what was meant. Pine is good until it gets weathered, or that weathered pine is good, or that unweathered Pine is fine, so long as extensive measures are taken? Thank you.
Greets!
Pine needs to be dried, preferably by being outdoors for a long time in a sunny climate. My best planks are from a 150+ yr old Central Ga. barn, but if you can still get kiln slow dried it will work too.
As Scott noted, typical 'green' #2 Yellow Pine isn't a good choice, so all this leaves is White Pine (at least around here), which is easy to work with and light, so needs serious mass loading to stiffen it up. Seems to me that TC mentioned there's another grade of Yellow Pine that works well, but I'm not familiar with it.
GM
peterbrorsson said:
Greets!
Chipboard is very lossy, so you're actually hearing it doing a pretty good job of absorbing the higher frequencies. Most of what you're feeling are lower in frequency, which shows you why it's not a good material for any wide BW design, so 'skinning' these with something rigid will help a bunch.
Anyway, back to 'thinking outside the box' WRT damping these, obviously not everyone can/will have an acoustic tile ceiling, mush less at the optimum height, but spacing a damping screen above the mouth to 'slow down' the BW above ~400 Hz will go a long way towards improving clarity at the listening position without rolling off the LF nearly as much as when the damping is inside the pipe.
The downside to such a contraption is that it's a dust filter too, so will lose its effectriveness over time unless made to be removable/cleanable.
GM
peterbrorsson said:Have had this idea steaming for a while with the extra pair of Monacor's I have. An apeirodical box where the whole back panel is made of two perforated plates, between the plates I would put damping.
In the corners of these would be screws so it would be possible to squeeze these together in order to adjust output of the back wave. The BIBs are excellent to try this on, at the moment I have two pillows on the mouths(this idea I got from listen to my mother in law way to long
Office dividers have these plates and it is possible to choose amount of holes drilled.
I got this idea sitting examin a Dynaudio variovent which has this adjustment feature.
What do you experts say?
Greets!
Per my previous post, have you tried spacing the pillows up some?
Anyway, aperiodically loading the second half of the horn's expansion by venting one whole wall will in theory primarily roll off all of the BW below whatever the bottom corner frequency's F6 is, though it's bound to get the higher harmonics to some extent also since the horn will be controlling them via reflections off the walls, so seems to be going in the wrong direction overall, but only one way to know for sure.
GM
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib.asp
More BiBs!
Audio Nirvana and Jordan added.... click on logos to see dims and sims.
Peace,
Godzilla
GM designed BiBs here:
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib-gm.asp
More BiBs!
Audio Nirvana and Jordan added.... click on logos to see dims and sims.
Peace,
Godzilla
GM designed BiBs here:
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib-gm.asp
Hi GM!
Well I can see when I reread my posting, that it could be misunderstood.
What I meant with a "normal" box was a small (15L) aperiodic box.
Anyway, I will try this on the mouth of my BIBs and if it works good, who knows if it stays there.
I don't have any problems with bass output with the pillows. As a matter of fact, it's too much with some records. So why should it be worse with a more esthetical solution.
The Naim CD3 I use has some grunt in the lower regions that makes dynamic music real fun to listen with the BIBs.
BTW dmason,
I remember some positive comments from you about the Monacor SPH60X. My opinion is that they need help in the treble region. I can still hear 15 kHz despite being a geezer
Read some recommendations from german builders that SPH 155X is better though I have not heard them personally.
However they claim the midrange is much more clear and crisp with SPH155.
Now Jordan looks interesting, but price....
Well I can see when I reread my posting, that it could be misunderstood.
What I meant with a "normal" box was a small (15L) aperiodic box.
Anyway, I will try this on the mouth of my BIBs and if it works good, who knows if it stays there.
I don't have any problems with bass output with the pillows. As a matter of fact, it's too much with some records. So why should it be worse with a more esthetical solution.
The Naim CD3 I use has some grunt in the lower regions that makes dynamic music real fun to listen with the BIBs.
BTW dmason,
I remember some positive comments from you about the Monacor SPH60X. My opinion is that they need help in the treble region. I can still hear 15 kHz despite being a geezer
Read some recommendations from german builders that SPH 155X is better though I have not heard them personally.
However they claim the midrange is much more clear and crisp with SPH155.
Now Jordan looks interesting, but price....
The Jordan looks as though it needs to be explored. Do we really need to order them all the way from HK?? And that price...
There is a ~soon-to-be-released HempAcoustics 4.5 inch which was recently heard, and apparently won the hearts of many, many people. It is said to fit in the same hole as FE126/7E, and share the wonderful warm signature as the Hemp 8, but sans whizz...
There is a ~soon-to-be-released HempAcoustics 4.5 inch which was recently heard, and apparently won the hearts of many, many people. It is said to fit in the same hole as FE126/7E, and share the wonderful warm signature as the Hemp 8, but sans whizz...
Hi lovechild,
makes sense, compression are seldom good whatever if it's in loudspeakers or digital compressions like MP3
One of my beloved childrens have compressed my dustcaps on my Monacors so I have to make holes in them to get them back to shape again.
However I feel that they are far to polite in the treble so I'm going to add a tweeter in my BIBs.
Cheers
makes sense, compression are seldom good whatever if it's in loudspeakers or digital compressions like MP3
One of my beloved childrens have compressed my dustcaps on my Monacors so I have to make holes in them to get them back to shape again.However I feel that they are far to polite in the treble so I'm going to add a tweeter in my BIBs.
Cheers
Since folks seem to be brainstorming other drivers:
http://www.diyhifisupply.com/diyhs_speaker.htm
I brought these up awhile ago. The specs look very friendly (Fs 53.7, Vas 11.6, Qts .415). With that large Xmax (6.3mm) and low VAS they should have plenty of SPL in a fairly small box. They aren't cheap, but they sure aren't as expensive as the Jordans either. It doesn't appear that too many folks have tried them, as they are fairly new.
Paul
http://www.diyhifisupply.com/diyhs_speaker.htm
I brought these up awhile ago. The specs look very friendly (Fs 53.7, Vas 11.6, Qts .415). With that large Xmax (6.3mm) and low VAS they should have plenty of SPL in a fairly small box. They aren't cheap, but they sure aren't as expensive as the Jordans either. It doesn't appear that too many folks have tried them, as they are fairly new.
Paul
From the website:
$134USD/pr including shipping to US/Europe/Australia/NZ/Taiwan/Japan
Perhaps you misread the price as "each." Jordans are $360 USD a pair shipped to the US. Jordans are more proven and Ted Jordan is legendary. However, for $230 less some might be interested in trying the Neofones.
$134USD/pr including shipping to US/Europe/Australia/NZ/Taiwan/Japan
Perhaps you misread the price as "each." Jordans are $360 USD a pair shipped to the US. Jordans are more proven and Ted Jordan is legendary. However, for $230 less some might be interested in trying the Neofones.
Hello all,
Update on BIB w/108EZs...
'Finished', well finished enough to listen to! Could not resist. I've essentially done it on the cheap, the MDF cost a total of 45 Euro (I guess 55 USD) including cuts, 108EZ 90 bucks the pair on ebay. My local Leroy-Merlin (HD equiv) did an excellent job, all cuts are w/in a mm and done in 10 mins! As you can tell from the photos, I did not have the equipment or space to do this at home (all done in my living room). I enlose a photo and if Godzilla is OK, I'd be happy to post others on his site. If anybody wants the sizes then please email directly (wac38@mac.com).
Sound... (Ariston RD80, Akito, Benz Micro MC20E 2, Linn LK1, Aureavox 5W tube monoblocks [only 5 W])... bass is surprisingly deep and detailed, tails off nicely, full in mid and highs are crisp, even not when against wall the stereo imaging is good. Though mid-high is a bit too clear. Compared to my favourite Linton XP2 (normally a large, warm sound) they are brighter with more detail in bass; Index II, different sound, where the Index have a well-equalised and controlled sound, the BIBs are alive (volume of course much louder with BIBs); TDL NFM, used as rear set in 5.1, more open sound stage, imaging is good in comparison. So, excellent but they do shout a bit in the mid-hi region.
Was planning to do a pair in real wood but I may just veneer, very happy with this project (and a nice easy one to get the ball rolling for those who first attempt this is [like me]). Thanks for the help available on the thread esp. Godzilla and Scottmoose for sharing their experience and numbers...
Best
Wilson
Update on BIB w/108EZs...
'Finished', well finished enough to listen to! Could not resist. I've essentially done it on the cheap, the MDF cost a total of 45 Euro (I guess 55 USD) including cuts, 108EZ 90 bucks the pair on ebay. My local Leroy-Merlin (HD equiv) did an excellent job, all cuts are w/in a mm and done in 10 mins! As you can tell from the photos, I did not have the equipment or space to do this at home (all done in my living room). I enlose a photo and if Godzilla is OK, I'd be happy to post others on his site. If anybody wants the sizes then please email directly (wac38@mac.com).
Sound... (Ariston RD80, Akito, Benz Micro MC20E 2, Linn LK1, Aureavox 5W tube monoblocks [only 5 W])... bass is surprisingly deep and detailed, tails off nicely, full in mid and highs are crisp, even not when against wall the stereo imaging is good. Though mid-high is a bit too clear. Compared to my favourite Linton XP2 (normally a large, warm sound) they are brighter with more detail in bass; Index II, different sound, where the Index have a well-equalised and controlled sound, the BIBs are alive (volume of course much louder with BIBs); TDL NFM, used as rear set in 5.1, more open sound stage, imaging is good in comparison. So, excellent but they do shout a bit in the mid-hi region.
Was planning to do a pair in real wood but I may just veneer, very happy with this project (and a nice easy one to get the ball rolling for those who first attempt this is [like me]). Thanks for the help available on the thread esp. Godzilla and Scottmoose for sharing their experience and numbers...
Best
Wilson
Attachments
IMHO,
... and for those that know Talking Heads' 'Heaven' on Stop Making Sense (good to hear what a guitar sounds like...) it sounds amazing, the difference is akin to when I replaced my plastic receiver with tubes... yes that much!! same with Marquee Moon & Southern Man (wow!).
... put on Mingus, Nomeansno & Joy Division for bass, very clear and tight bass though perhaps not as expansive as I am used to but furniture can be moved to get close to the walls.
... for 'wall-of-sound' Loop and Dvorak's Stabat Matter, the SM perhaps a little thin compared to what I am used to with the Index or XP2 (perhaps because of the loud treble as the bass is good when it kicks in).
... Sketches of Spain, very detailed in horns (hear the brassiness of the horn) and in bass, breathing is easily heard
... Horns are also excellent on Resolution on A Love Supreme tho the bass is a bit lost
Last test...
Ysabel's Table Dance, castanets clear, singing clappng all no problem. Perhaps gets a bit lost when it turns complicated at just over 2 mins. The high treble will be tiring if it keeps up (but I've heard it often enough to know it doesnt!), piano at 3 mins odd is nice as is the sax at 4 mins. Good detail on Mingus when bowing or plucking. Piano sounded good, so
Very last test, as I must go to work
Aldo Ciccolini's Janacek album is a crystal-clear, you can easily hear the effect of pedal use and when he lets the notes trail off. There is no articifial rounding, very crisp. Though it could be a bit more expansive.
In short, need more bass (easy part) and/or less treble. They need to be higher for my listening position, but I will have a small foot made for each by next week.
Dig out your Neil Young, you will appreciate it all the more with these
w.
... and for those that know Talking Heads' 'Heaven' on Stop Making Sense (good to hear what a guitar sounds like...) it sounds amazing, the difference is akin to when I replaced my plastic receiver with tubes... yes that much!! same with Marquee Moon & Southern Man (wow!).
... put on Mingus, Nomeansno & Joy Division for bass, very clear and tight bass though perhaps not as expansive as I am used to but furniture can be moved to get close to the walls.
... for 'wall-of-sound' Loop and Dvorak's Stabat Matter, the SM perhaps a little thin compared to what I am used to with the Index or XP2 (perhaps because of the loud treble as the bass is good when it kicks in).
... Sketches of Spain, very detailed in horns (hear the brassiness of the horn) and in bass, breathing is easily heard
... Horns are also excellent on Resolution on A Love Supreme tho the bass is a bit lost
Last test...
Ysabel's Table Dance, castanets clear, singing clappng all no problem. Perhaps gets a bit lost when it turns complicated at just over 2 mins. The high treble will be tiring if it keeps up (but I've heard it often enough to know it doesnt!), piano at 3 mins odd is nice as is the sax at 4 mins. Good detail on Mingus when bowing or plucking. Piano sounded good, so
Very last test, as I must go to work
Aldo Ciccolini's Janacek album is a crystal-clear, you can easily hear the effect of pedal use and when he lets the notes trail off. There is no articifial rounding, very crisp. Though it could be a bit more expansive.
In short, need more bass (easy part) and/or less treble. They need to be higher for my listening position, but I will have a small foot made for each by next week.
Dig out your Neil Young, you will appreciate it all the more with these
w.
Makes me wish i bought some 108S when they were going for cheap from HornShoppe
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib.asp
some new BIBs... click the logos.
Godzilla
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib.asp
some new BIBs... click the logos.
Godzilla