>>> Probably a bit of both.
It is both. The B20 has that fatigue free midrange fullrangers are famous for. But it lacks dynamics, speed and detail compared to the Fostex drivers (127e, 165k and 168S) I’ve got. Bass is full with the B20 but not as detailed or clear.
I love the B20 but love the 165k more! The BIB does pump up the bass for the 165k and puts it into a different league altogether. Things just sound more real with the BIB cabinet. Bass reflex seems like a major compromise nowadays.
It is both. The B20 has that fatigue free midrange fullrangers are famous for. But it lacks dynamics, speed and detail compared to the Fostex drivers (127e, 165k and 168S) I’ve got. Bass is full with the B20 but not as detailed or clear.
I love the B20 but love the 165k more! The BIB does pump up the bass for the 165k and puts it into a different league altogether. Things just sound more real with the BIB cabinet. Bass reflex seems like a major compromise nowadays.
Don’t abandon the B20 BIB! It may trounce the 165k in the bass. No one has built it yet that I know of. I’d build it if I had the space.
I chose the 165k over a pricier Fostex simply because of budget. The BIB for the 165k fit my space best. Otherwise, I would have built the B20 BIB.
Where the B20 falls short the Fostex drivers do very well – speed, dynamics, clarity. The B20 is cheaper but has strengths of its own like a very mellow, fatigue free sound. It needs a tweeter to fill in the highs. For the money the B20 is still a great driver.
A BIB using a 165k trounces a sealed box using a B20 IMO. Not an even match up by any means.
I chose the 165k over a pricier Fostex simply because of budget. The BIB for the 165k fit my space best. Otherwise, I would have built the B20 BIB.
Where the B20 falls short the Fostex drivers do very well – speed, dynamics, clarity. The B20 is cheaper but has strengths of its own like a very mellow, fatigue free sound. It needs a tweeter to fill in the highs. For the money the B20 is still a great driver.
A BIB using a 165k trounces a sealed box using a B20 IMO. Not an even match up by any means.
I'd think the $11.60 Sammi at e-bay might do OK in BIB and models ok for Cyburg's "Viech". It may need a helper due to 2" voice coil. It has high fs. is stiff but pretty lively with ~2.17% caculated efficiency. $11.60 isn't a bad gamble - but a horn might be.
rough guess at BIB set to get 1st z peak higher than 2nd (if that matters in pipehorn-?)
Sammi - guess at BIB vs Viech
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/4532/roughbibvsviechum6.jpg
rough guess at BIB set to get 1st z peak higher than 2nd (if that matters in pipehorn-?)
Sammi - guess at BIB vs Viech
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/4532/roughbibvsviechum6.jpg
In my office rig, I've got the B20s on small OBs, nearfield, but I'm using my Emu 0404 soundcard to apply EQ before the DACs.
I've got my EQ stack for the B20s refined down to where I'm not boosting anything. I've got a pretty deep notch around 2200Hz (I think this is a personal issue, not a driver issue because I like a notch of some sort there regardless of what drivers I'm using, including my Grado SR80s) with a shallow dip basically from about 100hz to about 6khz. This brings the top and bottom in line with the middle giving me flat, basically 50Hz to 16khz (I don't know about above that because, again, regardless of what drivers I'm using, including my Grados, I can no longer hear the fundamental of any test tone I play above that point)
Guess I'm cheating. These speakers could never actually stand on there own if I just moved them over into another system without the same level of electronics in the chain (like, say, my living room where all I have is a cheap and really old Panasonic DVD player and an even cheaper old Pioneer D411 receiver).
What I would be interested in doing is (for once) building a speaker that is good to go in any room of the house, with any set of electroncs driving it, and I would prefer to not use helper tweeters. Would I be well served with FF165, or should I move to smaller/better HF drivers like, say FE126/7 or FF125 (though the FF125 don't seem to have much more extension than the FF165). I'm definitely talking about a BiB here, as it would seem that a BiB will likely be the only type of "box" speaker that I would be able to stand the sound of, especially nearfield.
Kensai
I've got my EQ stack for the B20s refined down to where I'm not boosting anything. I've got a pretty deep notch around 2200Hz (I think this is a personal issue, not a driver issue because I like a notch of some sort there regardless of what drivers I'm using, including my Grado SR80s) with a shallow dip basically from about 100hz to about 6khz. This brings the top and bottom in line with the middle giving me flat, basically 50Hz to 16khz (I don't know about above that because, again, regardless of what drivers I'm using, including my Grados, I can no longer hear the fundamental of any test tone I play above that point)
Guess I'm cheating. These speakers could never actually stand on there own if I just moved them over into another system without the same level of electronics in the chain (like, say, my living room where all I have is a cheap and really old Panasonic DVD player and an even cheaper old Pioneer D411 receiver).
What I would be interested in doing is (for once) building a speaker that is good to go in any room of the house, with any set of electroncs driving it, and I would prefer to not use helper tweeters. Would I be well served with FF165, or should I move to smaller/better HF drivers like, say FE126/7 or FF125 (though the FF125 don't seem to have much more extension than the FF165). I'm definitely talking about a BiB here, as it would seem that a BiB will likely be the only type of "box" speaker that I would be able to stand the sound of, especially nearfield.
Kensai
thanks scottmoose! you're great!Scottmoose said:
Something about the wood...........
Ok , birch plywood is the first choice but what about other materials? Some builders use ,as they said, exotic ones....
Any advice on this?
About the suprabaffle, is there a problem if I'll use another shape than a circle? For example, oval?
resident said:
Unless you're John in CR, the cost of exotic hardwoods for large BIB or metronomes can easily surpass even architectural grade Appleply,
and of course unless humidity conditions are well controlled, I'd be concerned that movement / warpage might be an issue as well. I've tried square, octagonal and round, but been waiting to try something like a vertically oriented golden ratio ellipse (major axis = 1.618 x minor)
loninappleton said:
Greets!
I guess you need to define 'fullrange' since its BW has grown considerably in recent decades. When I started messing with speaker building, ~flat from ~75 - 11 kHz sufficed and is still over two octaves wider than a driver can go without elaborate engineering/materials/manufacturing.
Anyway, most tweeters operate in break-up mode over a good portion of its BW, so these also require elaborate engineering/materials/manufacturing to sound 'good enough', with ribbons, electrostats, planars being the most accurate.
GM
Thanks much !
Concerning BIB's , I've read that the response could be smoother if the drivers location is @ about 40% of line length , but that a different percentage is typically used to raise the driver to a more appropriate ear level.
Is this true, and if so , which driver location is the graph based on ?
How much does the "proper" location smooth the response ?
Thanks again.........................Blake
Concerning BIB's , I've read that the response could be smoother if the drivers location is @ about 40% of line length , but that a different percentage is typically used to raise the driver to a more appropriate ear level.
Is this true, and if so , which driver location is the graph based on ?
How much does the "proper" location smooth the response ?
Thanks again.........................Blake