excellent price indeed on the "lift" - by any chance was the factory stamping in Cyrillic? The material I obtain in BC, Canada is clearly marked "Made in Russia"
As for dual outside layers, on a box as well braced internally as this one, you might only need an extra layer on the lower 2/3 or so of the mouth. There are of course other methods to deal with panel resonances than brute force mass.
bb ply
the darker parts are not voids, it is void free.
as with any resource pricing will vary, i'll check when we're ready. it's supposed to snow again this tues.!
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
the darker parts are not voids, it is void free.
as with any resource pricing will vary, i'll check when we're ready. it's supposed to snow again this tues.!
1772 is a good driver
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
hey Pit - I'd put a driver in a slop jar to avoid woodwork - - -yeah Dave - stock BK20 - doesn't sound like its peaking on the low end.
here's a little kongested sounding 8K next to BK20 (got to damp the rear chamber and hope its less resonant)
here's a little kongested sounding 8K next to BK20 (got to damp the rear chamber and hope its less resonant)
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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>>> I'd put a driver in a slop jar to avoid woodwork...
Yes, but i see you took the time to cut up a baffle to mount the driver... the TB 8" does not fit the standard 8" hole. Funny how i also have a Betsy and TB similar to what you have but in totally different 'cabinets.' Do not have the venerable Klipsch's tho... would love a pair. Was fortunate enough to listen to Belle's powered by Mcintosh many years ago when i was a budding audiofile(fool). Tandberg reel to reel or Thorens turntable provided source... i remember Spyro Gyra sounding very detailed and clear but not quite 'in the room.'
Godzilla
Yes, but i see you took the time to cut up a baffle to mount the driver... the TB 8" does not fit the standard 8" hole. Funny how i also have a Betsy and TB similar to what you have but in totally different 'cabinets.' Do not have the venerable Klipsch's tho... would love a pair. Was fortunate enough to listen to Belle's powered by Mcintosh many years ago when i was a budding audiofile(fool). Tandberg reel to reel or Thorens turntable provided source... i remember Spyro Gyra sounding very detailed and clear but not quite 'in the room.'
Godzilla
hey Bob - I agree 1772 could use a highpass filter - one of mine is in the 1954 Karlson 12 (its tuning is higher than your MLTL) - there's some passages on "The Spirit Of The Chinese Drum" whose low frequency content falls below cutoff and Fb, wasting excursion and exceeding its rated xmax. In contrast IIRC, FE206EN just kinda pooped out past 2mm one-way movement and didn't jump. Either driver in the Karlson12 sound better than my Klipschorn. Playing the single driver game there's dynamic limits - modulation, voice-coil heating, non-linear BL - - those drum CDs tend to eat up much more excursion than pop music. I ran ~25W (SM70 or AlpehJ clone) - dunno how often it clips on that type music. I like BIG sound from little speakers.
Z-in Karlsonette 1772 versus FE206EN - some of the excursion in this case may be due to 1772's lower Z
http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/2520/karlsonettezin1772vsfe2.gif
Z-in Karlsonette 1772 versus FE206EN - some of the excursion in this case may be due to 1772's lower Z
http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/2520/karlsonettezin1772vsfe2.gif
TB's build quality seems good - never the pleasure of hearing any Lowther. 1772 gives a smooth & mellow impression compared to Super10 and 1772 might be deemed listenable without any filters. My applications are Karlson-based so maybe Bob Brines and others will see the bumped thread and give updated opinions.
Freddi,
The 207 and the 1772 are worlds different. While I have never actually dissected a 207, I believe that the underhung voice coil is very narrow and once it leaves the gap, there is no further excursion. The upshot here is that the 207 and its siblings suffer early dynamic compression and it is impossible to bottom one out. The 1772 with a much longer voice coil required by its 3mm Xmax is going to (duh!) produce much more excursion than the possible from the 207.
I'm a little puzzled as to why you would want to use drum tracks to test full-rangers in resonant boxes. Drums tend to put a lot of energy in the 60-100Hz range, exactly where an 8" full-ranger in a resonant box is going to reach maximum excursion. So, yes, you get a large jump from the 1772 and you push the voice coil out of the gap with the 207.
I design speakers to produce polite music very well. The 207 and the 167 run out of gas once you get beyond classic rock. The 1772 does much better, though.
As far as SQ, I find the 1772 much nicer than the 207, and about on a par with the DX2 (although the sound of these two is very different) The DX3, however is worth its price.
One comment comparing the 1772 and DX2 -- The DX2 can be overly bright if attention is not paid to the contour filtering. The 1772, at least is my implementation, is somewhat laid back with a bit of BBC dip and very smooth.
Bob
The 207 and the 1772 are worlds different. While I have never actually dissected a 207, I believe that the underhung voice coil is very narrow and once it leaves the gap, there is no further excursion. The upshot here is that the 207 and its siblings suffer early dynamic compression and it is impossible to bottom one out. The 1772 with a much longer voice coil required by its 3mm Xmax is going to (duh!) produce much more excursion than the possible from the 207.
I'm a little puzzled as to why you would want to use drum tracks to test full-rangers in resonant boxes. Drums tend to put a lot of energy in the 60-100Hz range, exactly where an 8" full-ranger in a resonant box is going to reach maximum excursion. So, yes, you get a large jump from the 1772 and you push the voice coil out of the gap with the 207.
I design speakers to produce polite music very well. The 207 and the 167 run out of gas once you get beyond classic rock. The 1772 does much better, though.
As far as SQ, I find the 1772 much nicer than the 207, and about on a par with the DX2 (although the sound of these two is very different) The DX3, however is worth its price.
One comment comparing the 1772 and DX2 -- The DX2 can be overly bright if attention is not paid to the contour filtering. The 1772, at least is my implementation, is somewhat laid back with a bit of BBC dip and very smooth.
Bob
I like oriental music with drum foundation and a speaker full-range or not needs to render some semblance of the performance. 1772 does well within its rated + - 3mm rating and I typically see 2mm - p-p on most drums with this nice CD (its a CD-R!) - Some of the music is very sparse and beautiful and some has very little space. Re: FE206EN in the little Karlson - that compression is useful as is the tilted up nature. I get a fairly "big" bass drum sound from FE206EN/Karlsonette and would say its better than my BK20 - FE206EN was good enough to elicit a couple of "d*mns" on the drums (for a little speaker) 1772 does nice on bells, gongs and cymbals within this album - it would probably sound very good on your MLTL 1772 combo.
Zhu Xiao-lin | Spirit Of The Chinese Drum | CD Baby
picture of 1772 in 3.3 cubic foot external bulk Karlson
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/530/kette1772head.jpg
Zhu Xiao-lin | Spirit Of The Chinese Drum | CD Baby
picture of 1772 in 3.3 cubic foot external bulk Karlson
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/530/kette1772head.jpg
I haven't looked at the BR's yet. At the momet I need a replacement for the FT-1600 MLTL. The only real candidate driver is the Alpair 12. Problems with this driver are:
1. the Alpair12 delivered is ~$200. That means ~$300 kick up in the price of my base speaker.
2. The darned thing is slightly over 200mm in diameter, which means that it is physically too big to go fit on the subra baffle, and therefore is not an upgrade for existing FT-1600's. This is a total redesign, not a drop in replacement.
I will have to purchase a pair of Alpair12's and see what happens. I also need to get a pair of the new FE166En's to see if there is any potential there. THEN I get to BR's with the TB's.
Bob
OK, I looked into the 1772 and 1808 in BR's. First, I ran the T/S specs through Unibox to get a starting point and then fine tuned the results with the MJK worksheets.
The 1808 needs a QB3 box of 120L. I reduced this to 80L and then tuned it low. This gives an interesting FR plot, and the project is doable. But....
The 1772 needs a QB3 box of 49L. Reducing that to 40L and tuning it low give the type of EBS plot I like.
W8-1808 in 80 liter BR............W8-1772 in 40 liter BR
The 1808 needs a QB3 box of 120L. I reduced this to 80L and then tuned it low. This gives an interesting FR plot, and the project is doable. But....
The 1772 needs a QB3 box of 49L. Reducing that to 40L and tuning it low give the type of EBS plot I like.
W8-1808 in 80 liter BR............W8-1772 in 40 liter BR
Attachments
Bob, would you have any specific recommendations (back horn or similar?) for a box design for the 1772 as this is what I am thinking of building with next. (The half chili changs I discussed in another thread are finally settling in so I want to do another FR next winter...) The 1772 driver looks appealing on a number of fronts..
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