Hi everyone,
I would like to receive some sugestions for speakers of 8ohm and max 4".
I'm building my own 5.1 surround from the blanda matt bowls, currently I'm testbuilding my design and I had an old 5.1 surround speaker set that you could hook up to a pc. But now that I have put my time and money in already, I think it's only fair that I should buy some nice speakers to make the new set complete.
Now to be fair, I don't now that much about speakers and can't really read the specs sheet and see a difference in the wave lenghts (because I don't know what's good or bad)
Now because I have searched some posts and google I have some that I like, but I also read that some speakers have a different feeling about them.
So I would give some extra information from my side:
I have a 2.1 from JBL Creature II on my pc, I'm really happy with that sound
I mostly listen to hip-hop/rap/r&b/funk...but also other genre
As I live in a row house the speakers won't be turned up to there max, just normal hearing level or maybe if there's a little party ;-)
The speaker I have found that I like is a Dayton Audio PS95-8 mainly for the design with the bowls.
others:
- HiVi Research M3N (I like the brown design)
- Tangband W3-517A (It just looks good)
- Visaton B 80 (alot of people said this was good)
- markaudio-chr-70-champagne-gen3-pair (for me to much as this would really drive up the cost for the set)
So I hope this is enough information to suggest me some speakers and also why one is better then the other.
I'm currently undecided about using the smaller bowls or the medium size ones, so if anybody has a set and could tell me something about it...
Ps: The red pins are just untill the glue dry's ;-)
I would like to receive some sugestions for speakers of 8ohm and max 4".
I'm building my own 5.1 surround from the blanda matt bowls, currently I'm testbuilding my design and I had an old 5.1 surround speaker set that you could hook up to a pc. But now that I have put my time and money in already, I think it's only fair that I should buy some nice speakers to make the new set complete.
Now to be fair, I don't now that much about speakers and can't really read the specs sheet and see a difference in the wave lenghts (because I don't know what's good or bad)
Now because I have searched some posts and google I have some that I like, but I also read that some speakers have a different feeling about them.
So I would give some extra information from my side:
I have a 2.1 from JBL Creature II on my pc, I'm really happy with that sound
I mostly listen to hip-hop/rap/r&b/funk...but also other genre
As I live in a row house the speakers won't be turned up to there max, just normal hearing level or maybe if there's a little party ;-)
The speaker I have found that I like is a Dayton Audio PS95-8 mainly for the design with the bowls.
others:
- HiVi Research M3N (I like the brown design)
- Tangband W3-517A (It just looks good)
- Visaton B 80 (alot of people said this was good)
- markaudio-chr-70-champagne-gen3-pair (for me to much as this would really drive up the cost for the set)
So I hope this is enough information to suggest me some speakers and also why one is better then the other.
I'm currently undecided about using the smaller bowls or the medium size ones, so if anybody has a set and could tell me something about it...
Ps: The red pins are just untill the glue dry's ;-)
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I'm thinking of buying the RS100-8 4" from dayton audio instead of the ps95, to bad they don't have a copper phase plug. But they have 30w rms instead of 10w and there frequency is better.
For the sub woofer I'm thinking of buying a SD215A-88 or the RS225-8, but because my speakers are gonna be 8ohm does my sub also have to be 8 or can that be 4?
For the sub woofer I'm thinking of buying a SD215A-88 or the RS225-8, but because my speakers are gonna be 8ohm does my sub also have to be 8 or can that be 4?
If you use WinISD it'll give you a reasonable outlook for frequency response in the available space. There's a good topic on Home Theatre Shack forum about entering driver data into it.
I calculated volume around 2.1 litres for a pair of the 20cm bamboo bowls (pessimistic as I allowed 10mm wall thickness and measured across the flats) - and 3 litres or so for a pair of the metal ones. Deduct volume removed for the baffle and driver and possible port(s) from that.
As you mentioned adding a sub, try the Tangband W3-881SJF. It's efficient and will hit 100hz in a 1.75-2.0 litres ported box. Maybe integrate the port into the stand to avoid taking up internal volume with the port.
J.
I calculated volume around 2.1 litres for a pair of the 20cm bamboo bowls (pessimistic as I allowed 10mm wall thickness and measured across the flats) - and 3 litres or so for a pair of the metal ones. Deduct volume removed for the baffle and driver and possible port(s) from that.
As you mentioned adding a sub, try the Tangband W3-881SJF. It's efficient and will hit 100hz in a 1.75-2.0 litres ported box. Maybe integrate the port into the stand to avoid taking up internal volume with the port.
J.
Important thing with the bamboo bowls is that you need some internal diffusors. Completely round interior has only one major standing wave inside it which makes a huge spike in the frequency response. I'd vouch for a sealed cabinet for these, I tried a similar build with the largest bowls with CHR-70 on BR. Wasn't that good tbh, never got them to sound right. Sold them to a guy who just wanted designer speakers for casual kitchen listening. Here you can see how they turned out:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...ge-speaker-photo-gallery-297.html#post4005200
4" driver is a better opinion to a sealed cabinet, it will give you more LF for better integration with sub. Not sure what your budget is and what drivers are available for you, but I'd go for Scanspeak 10F/8414 or Visaton B80 and crossover to sub at about 100Hz. Flush mount the drivers if possible. Glue a wooden board with large-ish diameter holes on the inside of the sphere, asymmetrically if possible. This should make it harder for standing waves to form, and give smoother FR. If these go over your budget, look for a driver with high QTS (0.5-1). Remember to use plenty of dampening material on the enclosure
I really like your stand + sphere design. Very artsy.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...ge-speaker-photo-gallery-297.html#post4005200
4" driver is a better opinion to a sealed cabinet, it will give you more LF for better integration with sub. Not sure what your budget is and what drivers are available for you, but I'd go for Scanspeak 10F/8414 or Visaton B80 and crossover to sub at about 100Hz. Flush mount the drivers if possible. Glue a wooden board with large-ish diameter holes on the inside of the sphere, asymmetrically if possible. This should make it harder for standing waves to form, and give smoother FR. If these go over your budget, look for a driver with high QTS (0.5-1). Remember to use plenty of dampening material on the enclosure
I really like your stand + sphere design. Very artsy.
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I will probably be like that guy who you sold them to, I want a nice looking design and casual listening ;-) I hate those black box speakers.
Thanks for the tip in regards to the standing wave, as right now I just used some glass wool insulation in the bowls.
Well I'm going to have a look at those QTS value's when I have some time.
Currently I don't use WINISD, I have seen you guy's on the forum posting print screens about this program. But my knowledge of speakers isn't that big, so maybe when I find some time I will check out the Home Theatre Shack forum. But thanks for the information about the volume
Ps: This is a testbuild for the stand of the rear speakers
Thanks for the tip in regards to the standing wave, as right now I just used some glass wool insulation in the bowls.
Well I'm going to have a look at those QTS value's when I have some time.
Currently I don't use WINISD, I have seen you guy's on the forum posting print screens about this program. But my knowledge of speakers isn't that big, so maybe when I find some time I will check out the Home Theatre Shack forum. But thanks for the information about the volume
Ps: This is a testbuild for the stand of the rear speakers
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Very pretty. WinISD is quite easy to use, you just input the parameters from manufacturers datasheet for the driver, then selected the box alignment you want and it calculates the optimal enclosure. Results may look dissapointing at first, but keep in mind that they are without room gain, which gives sealed enclosures a lot more audible bass. If you are aiming for 5.1 system, I recommend some driver with a very wide dispersion range, for example: TEBM65C20F-8. It has a huge dip at 2kHz, but it doesn't sound too bad. Very good for casual listening and home theater use IMO.
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I simulated the spheres for you in WinISD, with TEBM65C20F-8 as driver. I rounded the internal volume down because you don't have a spacer between the bowls. Total enclosure vol is approximately 8,5l including the amount taken by driver, but perceived volume is bigger due to fiberglass filling. It looks quite alright, only a ~2db bump at 125Hz and f-3db frequency at 74Hz. If you cross this on about 80-120Hz freq with subwoofer, it will sound very good, especially since you like bass-heavy music.
In the background of the simulation you can see a page about baffle step correction, found here: Baffle Step Compensation. The spherical shape is the best possible one for baffle step correction, and you should add that to the driver, otherwise it's going to sound very "shallow" since the low frequencies are attenuated compared to the high ones. You need a baffle step correction circuit with zobel for it. It's very simple, just connect the components to the leads going to the driver.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I also calculated the values for you: Lbsc= 1.2[mH], Rbsc 3.1[ohms], Rz=9.2625 [ohms], Cz=0.68[uF]. These give you -3db attenuation on higher frequencies to bring them down to the same level. You only need full -6db attenuation if you listen outside, -3db is good for normal rooms. If you want to try for other drivers, here's the calculator: http://www.mh-audio.nl/bdl.asp
Remember the internal diffusor, otherwise you will have problems with one frequency spiking! If you completely fill the enclosure with fiberglass, you can for example put a piece of normal corrugated cardboard or egg crate between the fiberglass layers in there to diffuse a bit. Just make sure to glue it securely at bottom so it doesn't move and rattle.
Have fun building and tinkering, and ask if you have questions.
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Wow Thanks Mayuri, I really apreciate it... When I find time this weekend, I think I'm gonna read up on some stuff...
If anybody needs it, A friend sent me this site with some explination about speakers and testing:
Measuring Loudspeaker Driver Parameters
I do have a spacer between the bowls and stand, 5mm triplex board (don't know if that really would make a difference in peak, but I get the picture)
If anybody needs it, A friend sent me this site with some explination about speakers and testing:
Measuring Loudspeaker Driver Parameters
I do have a spacer between the bowls and stand, 5mm triplex board (don't know if that really would make a difference in peak, but I get the picture)
Yes, I use the 20cm one's
I have a question about an active sub: If I would use a "mivoc am 80" and a Dayton Audio DC200-8, would that be OK for a "normal" sub? As I don't want to buy a "SPA250" for the RS225-8, orthewise I would just buy a sub.
I have read some bad things about amp plates from dayton audio, also some stuff about pcb plates from ebay to power a sub? Anybody that can recommend a amp plate? As I want the price for the sub to be below 150-200€
I have a question about an active sub: If I would use a "mivoc am 80" and a Dayton Audio DC200-8, would that be OK for a "normal" sub? As I don't want to buy a "SPA250" for the RS225-8, orthewise I would just buy a sub.
I have read some bad things about amp plates from dayton audio, also some stuff about pcb plates from ebay to power a sub? Anybody that can recommend a amp plate? As I want the price for the sub to be below 150-200€
If you power the speakers from a HT amplifier with sub out, Hypex DS 1.2 can't be beaten for it's price. Very good and clear output. I haven't seen that Mivoc unit before, no idea how it will perform.
The Dayton Audio DC200-8 is a regular woofer, and it's not suitable to be used as a subwoofer. Years ago I build a Peerless SLS 10 along with Hypex DS 1.2 in a 60l sealed enclosure filled with polyfill as my first subwoofer. I've build others after that, but still believe that combo had a bit of magic in it. Worked unbelievably well together. My friend still uses it daily with no need to upgrade.
The Dayton Audio DC200-8 is a regular woofer, and it's not suitable to be used as a subwoofer. Years ago I build a Peerless SLS 10 along with Hypex DS 1.2 in a 60l sealed enclosure filled with polyfill as my first subwoofer. I've build others after that, but still believe that combo had a bit of magic in it. Worked unbelievably well together. My friend still uses it daily with no need to upgrade.
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One driver I've had great success with is the Fountek FR88EX. Would fit very well to your 20cm bowls I believe.
Fountek Breitbandlautsprecher FR88EX
Remember the BSC for your bowls! With this Fountek driver and 20cm bowl, the correct components for it would be: Lbsc 0.7 [mH], Rbsc 2.5 [ohms], Rz 7.5 [ohms], Cz 0.8 [uF].
Fountek Breitbandlautsprecher FR88EX
Remember the BSC for your bowls! With this Fountek driver and 20cm bowl, the correct components for it would be: Lbsc 0.7 [mH], Rbsc 2.5 [ohms], Rz 7.5 [ohms], Cz 0.8 [uF].
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I played around with Winisd and I would like to know if this is correct? Because when I look at this information, the Mark audio has the lowest Hz as opposed to Tang bang (but the volume when I open the project is alot higher 7.98 as opposed to Fountek FR88 which has 1.04
My volume of the 20cm bowls is around 2.8L (optimal, so with the driver it's gonna be around 2.4-2.6)
When I check volume its between the Omnes audio BB4 and the Dayton Audio RS100, but the dayton has a better Hz.
Mark Audio CHR70
-3dB 86.86Hz
original volume 7.98
Dayton Audio RS100
-3dB 116Hz
original volume 2.91
Dayton Audio PS95
-3dB 122Hz
original volume 4.33
Omnes audio BB4
-3dB 135Hz
original volume 2.03
Fountek FR88
-3dB 150Hz
original volume 1.04
Tang Bang W4-1320
-3dB 154Hz
original volume 1.88
Tang bang W4-655
-3dB 182Hz
original volume 1.29
So how can I know what type of speaker is gonna fit best with my type of music and bowls?
I created a ring with different holes this time, so standing waves will have less of an inpact. Is this OK or is a difference in diameter better?
My volume of the 20cm bowls is around 2.8L (optimal, so with the driver it's gonna be around 2.4-2.6)
When I check volume its between the Omnes audio BB4 and the Dayton Audio RS100, but the dayton has a better Hz.
Mark Audio CHR70
-3dB 86.86Hz
original volume 7.98
Dayton Audio RS100
-3dB 116Hz
original volume 2.91
Dayton Audio PS95
-3dB 122Hz
original volume 4.33
Omnes audio BB4
-3dB 135Hz
original volume 2.03
Fountek FR88
-3dB 150Hz
original volume 1.04
Tang Bang W4-1320
-3dB 154Hz
original volume 1.88
Tang bang W4-655
-3dB 182Hz
original volume 1.29
So how can I know what type of speaker is gonna fit best with my type of music and bowls?
I created a ring with different holes this time, so standing waves will have less of an inpact. Is this OK or is a difference in diameter better?
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The spacer should be alright, you shouldn't run into problems with it. All of those drivers except CHR-70 have a -3db point too high for comfort. If you cross with a sub at 100Hz, ideal f3 would be about that.
How about Dayton ND90-8 or Fountek FR89EX-8? Both have low fs for a small driver, and should work better than most of the above in that volume.
How about Dayton ND90-8 or Fountek FR89EX-8? Both have low fs for a small driver, and should work better than most of the above in that volume.
Alright. Well, sealed cabinet is pretty versatile for drivers. Maybe this one? But I think you got the hang of it now Just simulate the drivers, see which one gives a nice low bass extension until around 100Hz, and put it in the enclosure with the BSC.
Tangband W4-1052SDF
Just simulate the drivers, see which one gives a nice low bass extension until around 100Hz, and put it in the enclosure with the BSC. Tangband W4-1052SDF
Yeah I'm getting the hang of it ;-), thanks for all the help so far.
When I first started thinking about this project, I thought the design was gonna be the hardest part of it... finding the right speaker is something different.
I tested these too in the bowls:
VISATON B80
-3dB 139Hz
original volume: 3.67
TANG BANG W4.1052
-3dB 121Hz
original volume: 3.01
FOUNTEK FE83
-3dB 152Hz
original volume: 4.76
TANG BANG W3.2141
-3dB 144Hz
original volume: 1.47
HiVi-M3N
-3dB 91Hz
original volume: 5.81
Currently the top 3 spots are:
-1 DAYTON AUDIO ND90 -3dB 81.48Hz
-2 MARK AUDIO CHR70 -3dB 86.86Hz
-3 HiVi-M3N 91Hz
When I first started thinking about this project, I thought the design was gonna be the hardest part of it... finding the right speaker is something different.
I tested these too in the bowls:
VISATON B80
-3dB 139Hz
original volume: 3.67
TANG BANG W4.1052
-3dB 121Hz
original volume: 3.01
FOUNTEK FE83
-3dB 152Hz
original volume: 4.76
TANG BANG W3.2141
-3dB 144Hz
original volume: 1.47
HiVi-M3N
-3dB 91Hz
original volume: 5.81
Currently the top 3 spots are:
-1 DAYTON AUDIO ND90 -3dB 81.48Hz
-2 MARK AUDIO CHR70 -3dB 86.86Hz
-3 HiVi-M3N 91Hz
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