on the subject...
at a shallow look the whole sound stage/imaging thing doesn't seem to make sense but if you really think about it there's no reason why 3D shouldn't be possible. it's a matter of recreating a meaningful wave at the ear, preserving the important information that concerns positioning.
it would seem that pinna cues can't be reproduced if the sound emanates from two speakers but I think it's possible to recreate a wave at the ear canal that sounds just as if there were real pinna cues. how that combines with actual pinna cues and the brain still gets to be fooled into recreating height... beats me.
or maybe, just maybe, it has something to do spaced drivers that actually don't integrate perfectly by the time the waves reach our ears, so somehow instruments occupying mostly the spectrum that is reproduced by a certain driver seem to come from that specific height, or a height determined partially by the sound of the other drivers?
just speculating with no scientific basis, don't mind me.
at a shallow look the whole sound stage/imaging thing doesn't seem to make sense but if you really think about it there's no reason why 3D shouldn't be possible. it's a matter of recreating a meaningful wave at the ear, preserving the important information that concerns positioning.
it would seem that pinna cues can't be reproduced if the sound emanates from two speakers but I think it's possible to recreate a wave at the ear canal that sounds just as if there were real pinna cues. how that combines with actual pinna cues and the brain still gets to be fooled into recreating height... beats me.
or maybe, just maybe, it has something to do spaced drivers that actually don't integrate perfectly by the time the waves reach our ears, so somehow instruments occupying mostly the spectrum that is reproduced by a certain driver seem to come from that specific height, or a height determined partially by the sound of the other drivers?
just speculating with no scientific basis, don't mind me.
Although it's fun to argue the different views, it's hopelessly circular, I'm afraid.
Those with very strict idea of what High Fidelity is, simply can't allow that any other view is correct. If they did, then why wouldn't (by definition) have a strict view of it, would they?
That's OK with me, because it's someone else's idea or option, not mine. And mine has certainly evolved over the years.
Those with very strict idea of what High Fidelity is, simply can't allow that any other view is correct. If they did, then why wouldn't (by definition) have a strict view of it, would they?
That's OK with me, because it's someone else's idea or option, not mine. And mine has certainly evolved over the years.
IMO each and every argument in audio is circular, only the circle circumference varies so to speak LOL
I've used this kind of setup for movies with good results. Note that I lie down so my head is still. I play Dolby Headphone over the headphones with some EQ. The speaker can help a lot depending on the level.
What's interesting is how you need less bass output than you might expect to have a tactile sense added to the headphone sound.
I use very open modded T50rp headphones. In the past I used Porta Pros sitting more towards the temple.
3D and vertical image extension depends mostly on the recording, and somewhat on the reproducing chain. Anybody can experience 3D image depth and height on the Chesky Jazz Sampler and Audiophile Test CD. There is a track where some scratching noise point source starts from the left speaker, goes up in a semicircle between the speakers, ends at the right speaker, then goes back. Obviosly some electronic trick, but a good stereo recording of orchestral music can do something similar illusion. Or have you heard Pink Floyd's Animals? The dog barking comes from behind you, even on a cheap system.
Well it's hardly perfected. I started this before I knew about measuring exact FR graphs, HRTFs etc. As I learnt more I thought that this trick with headphones + speakers must be naughty and low-fi, because of the staggered arrival times and attenuation of the direct speaker sound by the earpads. Of course Watson has such a delay as well.
If you look at the impulse response from Dolby headphone, the generated reflections arrive too soon ( < 6 ms I think). I want to do better with my own HRTFs but I don't yet have the ideal test setup in my apartment.
Personally, I find that reducing the sensation of having headphones on helps to suppress the learnt response of in-head-localization.
Btw, I think that Audyssey are working on headphones + speaker tech but I haven't seen any real info.
If you look at the impulse response from Dolby headphone, the generated reflections arrive too soon ( < 6 ms I think). I want to do better with my own HRTFs but I don't yet have the ideal test setup in my apartment.
Personally, I find that reducing the sensation of having headphones on helps to suppress the learnt response of in-head-localization.
Btw, I think that Audyssey are working on headphones + speaker tech but I haven't seen any real info.
And I thought I had the next great invention.....
not sure I know what you're talking about.
tried it on the plastic PC speakers in the bedroom connected to built-on laptop headphone out, playing the song from YouTube. so "cheap" condition is met. no dog behind me.
then tried on the living room system (cheap condition not satisfied). nope, still no dog behind me.
haven't heard the song on very expensive systems but if I think I would've noticed similar effects.
I know that occasionally when listening to music on cheap headphones while at work I would suddenly take them out thinking that there was a noise coming from inside the office but I think that's more of an artifact than a feature and IME it's not consistent. the real difficult part IMO is to make a system always place the perceived sound source where it's supposed to be.
You mean the Chesky LEDR test, I've got a copy and this isn't done electronically as the announcer is also in extreme left and right positions.
As far as Animals is concerned, no dog barking from behind, maybe a bit more to left and right and a man whisteling from a bit more right but that's all on track 2. :-/
A better test for good phase behavior imho is Roger Water's Amused to death. With Q-sound it manages to throw sound left, right and in the back.
I'm sure he must be talking about roger waters "amused to death" album with the Q sound.
my narrow dispersing flat electrostats (accoustat spectra 11) would throw sounds over my right shoulder. Right wall was brick. Left opened (bottom room in a raised ranch house). Yes "owner of a lonely heart" would do it. As would a small thunder roll in the distance but I can't remember which cd or song.
A narrow dispersing setup with back wall scattering should do the "behind you" trick.
A narrow dispersing setup with back wall scattering should do the "behind you" trick.
very good headphones those T50 RP
and the idea is very interesting - actually I bought a pair of extremely open Sony MDR-F1's with exactly such an idea in mind - Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.