Having just read about envelopment, I'd say no. It's mostly what's happening between the speakers that is 3D, not the space in the rest of the room. Although the sound does spread past the speakers left and right, the 3 dimensionality is mostly between the speakers. You'll hear left and right, depth and height. When it's really good, there is a sense of dimension to individual sounds, like a singer or an instrument. That's rare, but does happen.
Sounds outside the speaker is easy to do, just flip the polarity if one speaker.
I've heard some amazing effects that way, alas it all but kills the center vocals.
I'll through my hat in the ring
I believe the only way to achieve height and depth with a stereo recording is if the recording was made with some kind of 2 mic set up with a barrier.
Whether it be a dummy head, an ambiophone or a jecklin disk.
Then it must be played back on a system that has crosstalk cancellation or crosstalk avoidance. The later is all but impossible to achieve.....because it is very hard to create such a tight radiation pattern.
If not using a barrier we must employ electronic XTC, RACE or a number of other DSP algorithms.
Even with all these considered, you will never get the amount of realism that is possible with a straight up binaural recording and using IE monitors.
I believe the only way to achieve height and depth with a stereo recording is if the recording was made with some kind of 2 mic set up with a barrier.
Whether it be a dummy head, an ambiophone or a jecklin disk.
Then it must be played back on a system that has crosstalk cancellation or crosstalk avoidance. The later is all but impossible to achieve.....because it is very hard to create such a tight radiation pattern.
If not using a barrier we must employ electronic XTC, RACE or a number of other DSP algorithms.
Even with all these considered, you will never get the amount of realism that is possible with a straight up binaural recording and using IE monitors.
That's odd Melo, because for me it's the opposite. No matter what style of headphone or recording (normal,binaural of other), the sounds stay locked inside my head. I'd love to get the imaging from headphones that speakers give me. Has never happened to me, tho.
I suppose that it's listener dependent.
I suppose that it's listener dependent.
I've noticed this as well. It's seems to vary somewhat with crossover type/integration. If you get this close to being right the rest falls into place?Having just read about envelopment, I'd say no. It's mostly what's happening between the speakers that is 3D, not the space in the rest of the room. Although the sound does spread past the speakers left and right, the 3 dimensionality is mostly between the speakers. You'll hear left and right, depth and height. When it's really good, there is a sense of dimension to individual sounds, like a singer or an instrument. That's rare, but does happen.
Sounds outside the speaker is easy to do, just flip the polarity if one speaker.
It is. HRTFs can be very different from person to person. With most headphones I get rather poor results too but a Stax SR-202 works quite well.
I've had a demo with personal calibration - very impressive with only a few minutes listening after the personalization/calibration but can't tell how it would do in a longer evaluation
but yeah I'm cheap, don't watch movies or care much about multichannel suround sound so haven't sprung for it yet
but yeah I'm cheap, don't watch movies or care much about multichannel suround sound so haven't sprung for it yet
Member
Joined 2009
Lolo,
I think that this is only due to well mastered effets at the production process.
Looking at my TV set and its stereo standard loudspeakers (drivers 17 cm with tweeters), sounds often seem to emerge further at left than the left loudspeaker real location or further at right than the right loudspeaker real location, or even vertically.
I think that this is only due to well mastered effets at the production process.
Member
Joined 2009
from Wikipedia:
Sound localization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Sound localization in the median plane (front, above, back, below)
The human outer ear, i.e. the structures of the pinna and the external ear canal, form direction-selective filters. Depending on the sound input direction in the median plane, different filter resonances become active. These resonances implant direction-specific patterns into the frequency responses of the ears, which can be evaluated by the auditory system (directional bands) for vertical sound localization. Together with other direction-selective reflections at the head, shoulders and torso, they form the outer ear transfer functions.
These patterns in the ear's frequency responses are highly individual, depending on the shape and size of the outer ear. If sound is presented through headphones, and has been recorded via another head with different-shaped outer ear surfaces, the directional patterns differ from the listener's own, and problems will appear when trying to evaluate directions in the median plane with these foreign ears. As a consequence, front–back permutations or inside-the-head-localization can appear when listening to dummy head recordings,or otherwise referred to as binaural recordings."
------------------------------
PSCYCHOACOUSTICS
"In the head related transfer function, HRTF, there appears to be a notch in the high frequency range that is a function of the elevation of the sound source. The notch itself may not be the primary cue but the left slope that varies systematically and monotonically from 6 to 13 kHz when the elevation is increasing, certainly is. This is the only cue below ear level. Although the detection of spectral slope is a difficult task for electronic equipment to measure it is simple for neural system while the detection of spectral minimum is a more complex task. Experimentally, the sensation of elevated sound source can be achieved by [HOHA94]
** 3.9...8.0 kHz low pass cutoffs. Increasing the cutoff at this frequency range, increase the elevation angle from 0 to 60 degrees.
** 4.0...7.2 kHz bandpass filtering is perceived in front with an elevation of 60 degrees.
** 7.4...10.8 kHz notches cause elevation increase from 0 to 60 degrees when the notch frequency increases.
** 10.3 kHz low pass filtering causes the elevation of 90degrees.
** 8.1...9.1 kHz bandpass signal causes the sensation of 90 to 60 degrees elevation in rear section.
** 12.0...17.8 kHz notch causes elevation of 90 degrees. "
Figure 6 Frequencies of judgment front (f), behind (b) and above (a) for one-third octave bands of noise [JEBL70]. Directional bands: Bordered- at 90 % level of significance and shaded- most likely
----------------------------------------------------
from Wikipedia:
Head-related transfer function - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Recording technology
Recordings processed via an HRTF, such as in a computer gaming environment (see A3D, EAX and OpenAL), which approximates the HRTF of the listener, can be heard through stereo headphones or speakers and interpreted as if they comprise sounds coming from all directions, rather than just two points either side of the head. The perceived accuracy of the result depends on how closely the HRTF data set matches the characteristics of one's own ears.
Sound localization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Sound localization in the median plane (front, above, back, below)
The human outer ear, i.e. the structures of the pinna and the external ear canal, form direction-selective filters. Depending on the sound input direction in the median plane, different filter resonances become active. These resonances implant direction-specific patterns into the frequency responses of the ears, which can be evaluated by the auditory system (directional bands) for vertical sound localization. Together with other direction-selective reflections at the head, shoulders and torso, they form the outer ear transfer functions.
These patterns in the ear's frequency responses are highly individual, depending on the shape and size of the outer ear. If sound is presented through headphones, and has been recorded via another head with different-shaped outer ear surfaces, the directional patterns differ from the listener's own, and problems will appear when trying to evaluate directions in the median plane with these foreign ears. As a consequence, front–back permutations or inside-the-head-localization can appear when listening to dummy head recordings,or otherwise referred to as binaural recordings."
------------------------------
PSCYCHOACOUSTICS
"In the head related transfer function, HRTF, there appears to be a notch in the high frequency range that is a function of the elevation of the sound source. The notch itself may not be the primary cue but the left slope that varies systematically and monotonically from 6 to 13 kHz when the elevation is increasing, certainly is. This is the only cue below ear level. Although the detection of spectral slope is a difficult task for electronic equipment to measure it is simple for neural system while the detection of spectral minimum is a more complex task. Experimentally, the sensation of elevated sound source can be achieved by [HOHA94]
** 3.9...8.0 kHz low pass cutoffs. Increasing the cutoff at this frequency range, increase the elevation angle from 0 to 60 degrees.
** 4.0...7.2 kHz bandpass filtering is perceived in front with an elevation of 60 degrees.
** 7.4...10.8 kHz notches cause elevation increase from 0 to 60 degrees when the notch frequency increases.
** 10.3 kHz low pass filtering causes the elevation of 90degrees.
** 8.1...9.1 kHz bandpass signal causes the sensation of 90 to 60 degrees elevation in rear section.
** 12.0...17.8 kHz notch causes elevation of 90 degrees. "
Figure 6 Frequencies of judgment front (f), behind (b) and above (a) for one-third octave bands of noise [JEBL70]. Directional bands: Bordered- at 90 % level of significance and shaded- most likely
----------------------------------------------------
from Wikipedia:
Head-related transfer function - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Recording technology
Recordings processed via an HRTF, such as in a computer gaming environment (see A3D, EAX and OpenAL), which approximates the HRTF of the listener, can be heard through stereo headphones or speakers and interpreted as if they comprise sounds coming from all directions, rather than just two points either side of the head. The perceived accuracy of the result depends on how closely the HRTF data set matches the characteristics of one's own ears.
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Yeah, the one problem is frontal imaging.
And yes using around ears or especially angled ones helps with this.
I notice that when I use my sennheiser 558.
I've been making my own binaural recordings lately and the main problem with frontal imaging is that you have to see the objects in front of you to attach sound to them. If we don't see them, we assume they are behind us or in our heads.
I know this is true because I used my own ears for the recordings.
How about this idea......
A single speaker in front along with headphones.
Then a binaural recording with LRC matrix wiring?
A spin off of the Watson.
Thats even more suggestive that you simply enjoy distorted sound. You enjoy the sound of a speaker which does weird things to the stereo image. Thats fine but its not correct.
What is "correct"? Can you yell me that? If I have speakers and whatever else upstream that can reveal more differences in space than headphones, how is that wrong? Wherein lies the distortion? How is that "weird"? I find it very real and very convincing, so do others who've heard it. And it changes from one recorded space to another. If it were some weird trick or distortion, it would always sound the same. It does not.
I've heard the same argument many times, it's not new. "Oh, it's just a trick." Really? Darn good trick that can produce lifelike images of things big or small, loud or soft, flat or full and different from one record to another.
Some people have a very narrow view of what they imagine is "correct." A sort of slavish devotion their own idea of the signal. That works well enough with sources and amps, but not speakers. The real world is not like that. I hope some day you get to hear it, you'll not forget it nor doubt it again. But it will spoil you for typical dull, flat, non-resolving systems forever after. It's a blessing, and a curse.
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