You're right, the top woofer to midrange would be about 20 inches ctc. In my plan though, the WWTM wouldn't move the mid at all, it would just place the tweeter in that 20 inch space.
I was thinking I could make a 9 or 10 inch hole and suspend the Neo in it, and chamfer the front and back of the cutout. It wouldn't be perfectly "free space" for the Neo, but in your opinion do you think it'd be acceptable?
Weren't you the one who wanted to lift the acoustic scene somewhat by placing a woofer above the tweeter? Now you are going to lower the acoustic scene even more.
I can't approve that. Even a 10 inch hole would leave less than a wavelength distance from the driver to the cutout at lower frequencies. At least you would need to place the Neo off center in that hole - nearer to the midrange of course.
Rudolf
Weren't you the one who wanted to lift the acoustic scene somewhat by placing a woofer above the tweeter? Now you are going to lower the acoustic scene even more.
I can't approve that. Even a 10 inch hole would leave less than a wavelength distance from the driver to the cutout at lower frequencies. At least you would need to place the Neo off center in that hole - nearer to the midrange of course.
Rudolf
Yeah, I was thinking hang it from the lower two screws of the mid, leaving just a millimeter or two between the basket and Neo frame.
I suppose I can add that to the list of things to test once my second minidsp gets here
I do really appreciate all the time / advice / guidance on this, I'm looking forward to hearing these at their full potential soon!
Ugh, another severe thunderstorm warning..I was planning some outdoor measurements today but I guess that's out.
Oh, about "acoustic scene" honestly, I was just looking for a way to balance having a lot of drivers, and I'd seen a lot of designs where drivers are arranged like that over the years, so I had it on my list of "stuff I wanna try"...when I see designs, for instance, like the "statements" or the "tempest" I really want to try them, as I've never tried to build anything big, it's always blah 2 ways or an occasional 3 way.. I've been tinkering with 2 ways for nearly 20 years now and I'm just bored with them.
So really, this experiment represents my breaking away from doing another boring little 2 way that always ends up the same, in my scrap wood pile a few months after I build it and get bored with it.
So far, I'm enjoying the open baffle concept. It's challenging to EQ and balance, but that's what I'm after, something that's not going to bore me to tears. I enjoy the input and advice, especially "what not to do"... it saves me wood!
<3
Edit: Oh, and this MiniDSP is starting to cheese me off really badly...I can't believe nobody has issues driving an amplifier with these. I guess I need to DIY some amplifiers that reach full power with 0.5-0.8v.. if I ask the MiniDSP for any more than that, it starts to sound like a damn teddy ruxpin. Maybe it's my power supply, but it shouldn't be.
Oh, about "acoustic scene" honestly, I was just looking for a way to balance having a lot of drivers, and I'd seen a lot of designs where drivers are arranged like that over the years, so I had it on my list of "stuff I wanna try"...when I see designs, for instance, like the "statements" or the "tempest" I really want to try them, as I've never tried to build anything big, it's always blah 2 ways or an occasional 3 way.. I've been tinkering with 2 ways for nearly 20 years now and I'm just bored with them.
So really, this experiment represents my breaking away from doing another boring little 2 way that always ends up the same, in my scrap wood pile a few months after I build it and get bored with it.
So far, I'm enjoying the open baffle concept. It's challenging to EQ and balance, but that's what I'm after, something that's not going to bore me to tears. I enjoy the input and advice, especially "what not to do"... it saves me wood!
<3
Edit: Oh, and this MiniDSP is starting to cheese me off really badly...I can't believe nobody has issues driving an amplifier with these. I guess I need to DIY some amplifiers that reach full power with 0.5-0.8v.. if I ask the MiniDSP for any more than that, it starts to sound like a damn teddy ruxpin. Maybe it's my power supply, but it shouldn't be.
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I'd disagree with that. Although it will work, you'll loose dynamics compared to a larger baffle. That's been my experience.
Over the weekend I built a pair of OB that are 24"Wx51"H with shallow wings. (61cm wide x 130cm high) Each has 2x15" woofers and an 8" fullrange. Seems a good size.
Pano,
DrDyna explicitely doesn't expect anything below 90 Hz from this system.
I have used my Ultradrive for more than 5 years now. I know about those complaints, but there has never been any lockup/crashing or excessive distortion problem for me.
I have to admit that I don't have the DCX switched on 365/24. And it has never left the house, so no throwing on and off any trucks by any roadie/rowdy.
Since the Ultradrive isn't exactly carved from a solid block of steel, I would expect it to quit service under SOME abuse.
Sorry, I missed that part.About the WWTM layout ... with the heil at least its "plumb line" position has a lot to do with the overall sound. I have tried the same layout on my framed arrangement. If the heil isn't truly vertical or tilted back a little and the mid slightly pitched down the response seemed overly midrange heavy. If I stood up the top end vanished .. was overpowered.
Tilting the heil slightly back and the mid driver slightly down cured that issue entirely. I also keep the volume of the upper mid down 2db from the heil and 1db down from the lower mid in that WWTM arrangement (pink noise measure). Worked fine xo @ 800hz (lo M-hi M) that way as well .... try it.
Tilting the heil slightly back and the mid driver slightly down cured that issue entirely. I also keep the volume of the upper mid down 2db from the heil and 1db down from the lower mid in that WWTM arrangement (pink noise measure). Worked fine xo @ 800hz (lo M-hi M) that way as well .... try it.
keyser uses this "hanging Tweeter under Mid" concept in his daudio speaker. Generally LR2 has a lobing type that favors TM arrangement. DrDyna - I guess that you got the idea from him. It can't be all bad... But generally we listen to speaker while sitting and sometimes we stand up - not the other way around. Like puppet said, there are ways to tilt vertical lobes to correct that somewhat. I personally just don't like the top-heavy looks of daudio or similar systems 
keyser uses this "hanging Tweeter under Mid" concept in his daudio speaker. Generally LR2 has a lobing type that favors TM arrangement. DrDyna - I guess that you got the idea from him. It can't be all bad... But generally we listen to speaker while sitting and sometimes we stand up - not the other way around. Like puppet said, there are ways to tilt vertical lobes to correct that somewhat. I personally just don't like the top-heavy looks of daudio or similar systems
That's almost exactly what I was thinking of. I hadn't seen that speaker before! I've been merrily following advice, put the woofers near the bottom, put the mid at the top of the baffle..and I was looking at that space and thinking...hm, I wonder if I can get enough of that baffle out of there to not interfere with the tweeter...
I'm glad to know the Ultradrive unit has been reliable for you, Rudolf. Used 2 in / 6 out (I even already downloaded the software and programmed it) is pretty much exactly what I need at the moment. I also need to upgrade a few things, like my HTR, using a voltage divider resistor at the speaker output is a terrible solution, I need to go ahead and just get a pre-pro that offers line outs, as well as rebuild a decent 2 channel rig.
It's a shame there isn't a unit that has an HDMI passthrough and then I2S outputs so I could go right from HDMI output digitally and into a MiniSHARC and then out to 4 stereo DACs. Or better yet, maybe someday they'll make a MiniDSP that has an HDMI input and enough outputs to do 3 ways on 7 channels
!BLAH!
Pano: Yeah, the baffles really only need to go down to about 80-90 hz ,which they do quite easily. I run a pair of these OD-ML-TL subs to fill in below that and it works wonderfully.
I did some crossover adjusting by ear yesterday because of the rain, I couldn't go outside. So far, they seem to be doing very, very well. If I keep the volume down to around -10 on the HTR so I don't irritate the microscopic voltage stages in the MiniDSP, it sounds phenomenal. They seem to do a nice job of appearing wider than they are. I get that sensation that if I were to put up a sheet that covered that half of the room, it would be nearly impossible to point a finger at a speaker and say "there it is."
So, on the agenda for today:
1.) Rummage around for a better power supply for the MiniDSP and see what happens. I know I have an old laptop power brick around here somewhere that offers 16v / 3A.
2.) Relocate the tweeter ala Keyser / daudio.
3.) Continue staring at all these browser pages I have open with gear I want to order
I'd still say that the miniDSP is more versatile.
You mean a voltage divider at the DCX outputs? I have mine in the outgoing XLR connectors - no big job.
Do you need digital inputs, analog inputs or both?
Nice to hear that the dipole is already doing its "magic" on you.
Naw, on the L and R speaker outputs of my receiver, it lacks pre-outs so I have one of these on it.
Nice to hear that the dipole is already doing its "magic" on you.
It is, it is! I very much like it so far.
Well, tha;s one way to get volume control!
It probably has enough level to drive the analog inputs of the DCX, too. But there are better ways to do it.FWIW, I've plugged speaker outs from a tube amp into the DCX analog inputs to use it as a subwoofer crossover & EQ. Worked OK.
Well, tha;s one way to get volume control!
FWIW, I've plugged speaker outs from a tube amp into the DCX analog inputs to use it as a subwoofer crossover & EQ. Worked OK.
Yeah, it seems to work predictably well, when the receiver is at -0 on the volume scale, the MiniDSP input monitor is just nearly where it's going to come out of the yellow area and into red, so it seems to be about where it needs to be.
It would appear that my latest repair attempt on the decrepit 7-360 Hex has been successful, so they're back in play.
They should probably still be replaced at some point. Oh well.
Here's how it looks now with the tweeter relocated. If it stays there or not, I don't know yet.
They should probably still be replaced at some point. Oh well.
Here's how it looks now with the tweeter relocated. If it stays there or not, I don't know yet.
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Yeah, removing the center piece is something I've been considering, along with various schemes for using thread rod supports.
It should be pretty nifty by the time it's 100% done.
Edit: I believe I've selected a midrange driver, the Neo 10. Time to start saving my pennies!
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I'm not sure I like the tweeter there, even with my temporary (read: terrible) crossover, I keep getting the urge to put the entire panel up on stands.
Also, something I've noticed, which I'm not sure that I can attribute to the slightly screwy passive crossover, but they seem to be a little light on transients..or dynamics..I'm not sure how to describe what I mean, but using box speakers, I'm used to sounds like tom drums and hard-struck piano keys in the middle register that are almost jarring. These seem to lack that..visceral impact?
I hate to use stupid buzzwords, but I really can't come up with a way to convey the idea. It's a softer quality that lends itself nicely to some types of music, but when you have a beer and put on some Floyd or something...these seem to have a really hard time "bearing their teeth".
Perhaps that'll all go away once I can get them fully active and get some LT filters in place.
Also, something I've noticed, which I'm not sure that I can attribute to the slightly screwy passive crossover, but they seem to be a little light on transients..or dynamics..I'm not sure how to describe what I mean, but using box speakers, I'm used to sounds like tom drums and hard-struck piano keys in the middle register that are almost jarring. These seem to lack that..visceral impact?
I hate to use stupid buzzwords, but I really can't come up with a way to convey the idea. It's a softer quality that lends itself nicely to some types of music, but when you have a beer and put on some Floyd or something...these seem to have a really hard time "bearing their teeth".
Perhaps that'll all go away once I can get them fully active and get some LT filters in place.
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