I've redone the Toolbox. It's now Rev 6 and uses squeezelite instead of squeezeplay as audio engine.
No need for EDO (except the EDO-kernel for 192khz and USB DACs) anymore.
I don't know if I'm gonna release it. To many smartypants out there who put a box and a ribbon around all this and make nice business with it.
In the audiophile world all this work is worth a little fortune, in the IT and consumer world it's worth nothing.
Adrian is obviously facing a similar situation with squeezelite. You'll see how many network streamers will pop up that are using squeezelite as engine.
Cheers
No need for EDO (except the EDO-kernel for 192khz and USB DACs) anymore.
I don't know if I'm gonna release it. To many smartypants out there who put a box and a ribbon around all this and make nice business with it.
In the audiophile world all this work is worth a little fortune, in the IT and consumer world it's worth nothing.
Adrian is obviously facing a similar situation with squeezelite. You'll see how many network streamers will pop up that are using squeezelite as engine.
Cheers
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Hi there.
I'd like to share an experience from last weekend.
Last weekend I've been at a friends place.
He's been using my latest Touch-Toolbox and Server-Toolbox and a HW tweaked Touch that was connected via Toslink running into a DDX320, or a TP Bufallo and just recently into a NAD M51 (a real nice DAC) for a while.
Inspired by JPLAY related discussions and hype he decided to build a PC platform from scratch that would match the JPLAY communities latest and best ever recommendations and settings. And that also includes a master/slave (two PCs) configuration.
Basically he spent quite some time and money to built a JPLAY transport.
For me it was time to figure out, where am I at with my stuff and...
...traveled to Frankfurt.
We tried all kind of interfaces (HDMI/USB/TOSLINK) on the NAD M51 running his JPLAY setup config first.
I also brought my own Toslink cables (Lifatec Silflex / Mutec / Van den Hul).
We also compared those Toslinks.
To make a long story short. We ended up feeding the NAD with Lifatec Silflex Toslink. Everything sounded clean, black ,rock solid without any hint of sharpness/edginess, which was audible via the other interfaces. The Liftatec glas Toslink was simply better then the other plastic type Toslinks.
Optical isolation - if done right - IMO rocks. I guess I mentioned that before.
That was Phase I.
Phase II
Now we tested the SBT hooked up to an old 2 CPU PC, which acted as SB server against the new PC and JPLAY. Surprise surprise. Not much of a difference. The biggest difference was the awful operation of JPLAY compared to iPeng.
Anyhow. There was no clear winner.
I have to admit, the JPLAY guys and community definately have done quite a good job with that tool regarding sound quality.
If Jplay is much better then other Windows based players such as XXHighend or Cplay I can't tell. Though I'd guess that OSX based audiophile players would have difficulties to compete. These just don't dive that deep into OS manipulations.
However. I wasn't really happy with the result for obvious reasons. A draw wouldn't be acceptable for me.
I had to make sure to have a fair comparision (and to keep some distance to JPLAY.)
Bottom line. I convinced him to use his brandnew 4 CPU i5 Jplay server as Squeezeboxserver.
I did the swap. Reconfigured and optimized the setup and kernel for that machine. And here we go.
From that point on there was no more drive to switch back to JPLAY.
It always amazes me, how much impact the server HW and SW has. Even with a wireless connection in between.
Later on he mentioned, that we've forgotten to power the server SSD ( that one with the Linux installed on it) by a battery supply. (Note: The data disk was already powered externally.)
Hmmh. Please. Let's not overdo it.
He insisted doing it. Ok. Let's go for it.
Done.
After the first 5 seconds of playback, it was clear that something had
changed. I'd say there are people out there who'd spent a couple of hundred $ to achieve similar with a new DAC.
I don't even try to find an explanation for that.
I just continue to blame the manufacturers not being able to develop DACs that wouldn't respond to slightest changes on upstream equipment.
Obviously I have to tweak my server a little further.
Conclusion. With my Touch setup, I'm still well on track.
Another learning when comparing my to his setup when I got back home Sunday night:
I probably don't need a NAD M51. My DDX seems to be doing quite well.
I rather need to look for a new tweeter. His Eton ER4 ribbon just manages to deliver slightly more air, details and texture. On the other hand my own tweeter
offers slightly better dynamics. I'd need to find a tweeter that can do both -- maybe a Beyma TPL150??? Two of them would cost me about 1 grand.
Hmmh. One grand for a little extra air. Perhaps I'd rather grep my MTB and get some fresh air for free.
Enjoy.
(Sorry, if I bore you to death with stuff like that.)
PS: The Touch was running with screen attached during the tests. He still got some room for improvement.
I'd like to share an experience from last weekend.
Last weekend I've been at a friends place.
He's been using my latest Touch-Toolbox and Server-Toolbox and a HW tweaked Touch that was connected via Toslink running into a DDX320, or a TP Bufallo and just recently into a NAD M51 (a real nice DAC) for a while.
Inspired by JPLAY related discussions and hype he decided to build a PC platform from scratch that would match the JPLAY communities latest and best ever recommendations and settings. And that also includes a master/slave (two PCs) configuration.
Basically he spent quite some time and money to built a JPLAY transport.
For me it was time to figure out, where am I at with my stuff and...
...traveled to Frankfurt.
We tried all kind of interfaces (HDMI/USB/TOSLINK) on the NAD M51 running his JPLAY setup config first.
I also brought my own Toslink cables (Lifatec Silflex / Mutec / Van den Hul).
We also compared those Toslinks.
To make a long story short. We ended up feeding the NAD with Lifatec Silflex Toslink. Everything sounded clean, black ,rock solid without any hint of sharpness/edginess, which was audible via the other interfaces. The Liftatec glas Toslink was simply better then the other plastic type Toslinks.
Optical isolation - if done right - IMO rocks. I guess I mentioned that before.
That was Phase I.
Phase II
Now we tested the SBT hooked up to an old 2 CPU PC, which acted as SB server against the new PC and JPLAY. Surprise surprise. Not much of a difference. The biggest difference was the awful operation of JPLAY compared to iPeng.
Anyhow. There was no clear winner. I have to admit, the JPLAY guys and community definately have done quite a good job with that tool regarding sound quality.
If Jplay is much better then other Windows based players such as XXHighend or Cplay I can't tell. Though I'd guess that OSX based audiophile players would have difficulties to compete. These just don't dive that deep into OS manipulations.
However. I wasn't really happy with the result for obvious reasons. A draw wouldn't be acceptable for me.
I had to make sure to have a fair comparision (and to keep some distance to JPLAY.)
Bottom line. I convinced him to use his brandnew 4 CPU i5 Jplay server as Squeezeboxserver.
I did the swap. Reconfigured and optimized the setup and kernel for that machine. And here we go.
From that point on there was no more drive to switch back to JPLAY.
It always amazes me, how much impact the server HW and SW has. Even with a wireless connection in between.
Later on he mentioned, that we've forgotten to power the server SSD ( that one with the Linux installed on it) by a battery supply. (Note: The data disk was already powered externally.)
Hmmh. Please. Let's not overdo it.
He insisted doing it. Ok. Let's go for it.
Done.
After the first 5 seconds of playback, it was clear that something had
changed.
I'd say there are people out there who'd spent a couple of hundred $ to achieve similar with a new DAC. I don't even try to find an explanation for that.
I just continue to blame the manufacturers not being able to develop DACs that wouldn't respond to slightest changes on upstream equipment.
Obviously I have to tweak my server a little further.
Conclusion. With my Touch setup, I'm still well on track.
Another learning when comparing my to his setup when I got back home Sunday night:
I probably don't need a NAD M51. My DDX seems to be doing quite well.
I rather need to look for a new tweeter. His Eton ER4 ribbon just manages to deliver slightly more air, details and texture. On the other hand my own tweeter
offers slightly better dynamics. I'd need to find a tweeter that can do both -- maybe a Beyma TPL150??? Two of them would cost me about 1 grand.
Hmmh. One grand for a little extra air. Perhaps I'd rather grep my MTB and get some fresh air for free.
Enjoy.
(Sorry, if I bore you to death with stuff like that.)
PS: The Touch was running with screen attached during the tests. He still got some room for improvement.
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He has been testing several options for quality digital audio output from his PC.
He ended up with an external powered PCIe card, an Asus Xonar D2X.
Of course our comparison is not Apples vs. Apples and my conclusion can't be seen as "absolute" conclusion.
The conclusion, as usual, is pretty subjective -- without any commericial interest in mind.
It's one system vs. another system, with hundreds of different variables in the game.
However. I do think the systems act very similar. The same tweaks on either system will have very similar effects.
That's what makes them comparable to me.
Cheers
He ended up with an external powered PCIe card, an Asus Xonar D2X.
Of course our comparison is not Apples vs. Apples and my conclusion can't be seen as "absolute" conclusion.
The conclusion, as usual, is pretty subjective -- without any commericial interest in mind.
It's one system vs. another system, with hundreds of different variables in the game.
However. I do think the systems act very similar. The same tweaks on either system will have very similar effects.
That's what makes them comparable to me.
Cheers
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Thanks, so i have to read how to do the EDO app on SBT.
As to the external 5V ... at USB plugs pin 1 is GND and 4 is +5V.
So have to get USB female-male connector and fit in external 5V PSU.
What do you recommend here?
greetings Ulf
I cut the USB cable on the positive lead. Leave the positive on Touch/PC side open and feed the external 5V lead towards the DAC.
The ground of the external suppply gets soldered to the USB cable ground, which still connects Touch and DAC.
As 5V supply I'd recommend to try a Li-Ion 5V USB-battery (those you'd use for charging your phones).
Just cut an old USB cable and use that as supply cable.
If you'd introduce a switch you might even be able to load the battery via the Touchs USB-5V during idle time.
Cheers
The ground of the external suppply gets soldered to the USB cable ground, which still connects Touch and DAC.
As 5V supply I'd recommend to try a Li-Ion 5V USB-battery (those you'd use for charging your phones).
Just cut an old USB cable and use that as supply cable.
If you'd introduce a switch you might even be able to load the battery via the Touchs USB-5V during idle time.
Cheers
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Hi Soundcheck,
DragonFly arrived this morning with DHL. Instaloxlation of EDO was unexpectedly
easy. Set the Toolbox back to original configuration. Plugged in the Fly
and it worked but with a very low volume-level. Preamp-volumeknob has
to be set to 12 o´clock to reach the level of using analog-out of the SBT
(set to 9o´clock).
Are you expecting any problems with the toolbox-settings for playing the
DragonFly?
Greetings ulf
DragonFly arrived this morning with DHL. Instaloxlation of EDO was unexpectedly
easy. Set the Toolbox back to original configuration. Plugged in the Fly
and it worked but with a very low volume-level. Preamp-volumeknob has
to be set to 12 o´clock to reach the level of using analog-out of the SBT
(set to 9o´clock).
Are you expecting any problems with the toolbox-settings for playing the
DragonFly?
Greetings ulf
The Toolbox is not compliant with EDO and without EDO you ususally face
issues withh USB DACs.
Try EDO + your DF.
The Meridian Explorer is a rather new 300$ bus powered DAC + Toslink + headphone out, which has been compared to the DF in quite some reviews recently. I havn't seen any review that would put the DF above the Meridian.
Though I'm not sure if the Meridian will work with the Touch USB driver. It got an XMOS interface ship. Still there is always a chance that the DAC is not 100% compliant/recognized with the ALSA USB driver.
Hi Soudcheck,
oh bugger! I bought the DFly second-hand, so can not return it. I got me
an DFly ´cause Otto (you know him well) highly recommended it to be used
with Mac. Tought it would be a tip for SBT too. But that is not a real problem,
cause i can use it with my MacBook. But where to go with the SBT? What kind
of DAC can you recommend? I read that you used to play with a saber DAC too!
greetings Ulf
oh bugger! I bought the DFly second-hand, so can not return it. I got me
an DFly ´cause Otto (you know him well) highly recommended it to be used
with Mac. Tought it would be a tip for SBT too. But that is not a real problem,
cause i can use it with my MacBook. But where to go with the SBT? What kind
of DAC can you recommend? I read that you used to play with a saber DAC too!
greetings Ulf
Hi Soundcheck,
okay - i did it - unscrewed my SBT. And now i´m thinking about what to modify.
You recently recommended upgrading the isolation of the toslink transmitter with
some lytics and a foil. But where to solder them? if i´m looking right into the LED
of the transmitter there are three solder tags. I think the one at the right is gnd.
But where is the b+?
What else would you really recommend to change / add ?
Greetings Ulf
got a bit quiet at this channel - right :-(
okay - i did it - unscrewed my SBT. And now i´m thinking about what to modify.
You recently recommended upgrading the isolation of the toslink transmitter with
some lytics and a foil. But where to solder them? if i´m looking right into the LED
of the transmitter there are three solder tags. I think the one at the right is gnd.
But where is the b+?
What else would you really recommend to change / add ?
Greetings Ulf
got a bit quiet at this channel - right :-(
Wireless
I fail to see what the problem with WiFi is. I do see problems with an Ethernet connection. As the latter creates a galvanic connection between the digital world (LAN) and the audio world it is much more prone to induce mid-high frequency (Mhz) and low frequency noise (hum). Wifi is operating at a 2GHz or 5GHz freq band that is not very likely to end up in the audio stream.
Just to quote myself:
"Hi folks.
For those who can't skip the wireless:
I fail to see what the problem with WiFi is. I do see problems with an Ethernet connection. As the latter creates a galvanic connection between the digital world (LAN) and the audio world it is much more prone to induce mid-high frequency (Mhz) and low frequency noise (hum). Wifi is operating at a 2GHz or 5GHz freq band that is not very likely to end up in the audio stream.
Ethernet is galvanically isolated too, it has ballancing transformers on both sides of the link. Some people say the noise gets coupled through the transformer, I cannot comment on that as I have never tested the issue or made corresponding blind listening tests (which I do not think they have either).