Blab away all you want, we are all trying to become more knowledgable of Vinyl translation methods. The way you are so strait up about what you hear, and think you hear is rare, and is greatly appreciated. If I make a change it takes me more than a week of critical listening to a wide range of stuff to verify what I think I heard.
By the way in my area a good pie costs about $16 and yes I would eat it off the floor too! I do hope your floor is cleaner than mine.
By the way in my area a good pie costs about $16 and yes I would eat it off the floor too! I do hope your floor is cleaner than mine.
Fortunately my pizza was of the frozen variety with some additions, unfortunately it made quite a mess. We have cats and bunnies so in short the kitchen floor is always dirty, add winter mud and salt, and I probably got a goodly dose of micro-organisms with the pizza.. lol
So far still listening to records. Everything seems ok, no unwarranted noises, skipping or other carrying on. Still experimenting but I think I've got a reasonable compromise going, the sound is a little more detailed and coherent sounding, when things get a bit busy it stays more composed. It's less in your face, although I have to admit I am not finding the other set up pleasant to listen to and am using this table almost exclusively now which is ironic since this table and pre-amp always seemed like the bastard step child compared to the other arm.
Thanks for the kind comments.. I experiment a lot and I'm delighted if one of two people enjoy the tales of the road now traveled.
So far still listening to records. Everything seems ok, no unwarranted noises, skipping or other carrying on. Still experimenting but I think I've got a reasonable compromise going, the sound is a little more detailed and coherent sounding, when things get a bit busy it stays more composed. It's less in your face, although I have to admit I am not finding the other set up pleasant to listen to and am using this table almost exclusively now which is ironic since this table and pre-amp always seemed like the bastard step child compared to the other arm.
Thanks for the kind comments.. I experiment a lot and I'm delighted if one of two people enjoy the tales of the road now traveled.
Congrats on the tonearm kevinkr.
Have always wondered what forces move such linear tonearm ? If we can make some arrangements to the horizontal rod (holding the main cartridge+arm) so it can be inclined we can arrange the more easy movement towards the center or vice versa by gravity. Or a bias weight on pulleys at two ends.
Regards.
Have always wondered what forces move such linear tonearm ? If we can make some arrangements to the horizontal rod (holding the main cartridge+arm) so it can be inclined we can arrange the more easy movement towards the center or vice versa by gravity. Or a bias weight on pulleys at two ends.
Regards.
Funny that you ask, some people apparently do install the arm so that it is at a slight incline, this has not proven necessary at all in my case. I suspect clean rods and bearings are what are needed.
I can't imagine adding weights or pulleys to this thing. Getting it to work correctly takes some patience but once understood just keeping it really clean is most of the battle.
I replaced the bearings last week and so far so good, it is noticeably quieter in operation now.
I have stuck two little blobs of blue tack behind the rear bearings, looks stupid, but it seems to be doing something positive. I have no explanation but it sounds more coherent, it almost seems like the noise floor dropped. Probably deluding myself, but since it looks stupid I took it off and ended up putting it back.
All I can say is it is getting a lot more use than the other arm/cartridge combination.
Waiting on some parts and a cartridge for the other arm and I will perform the same surgery on the other table...
I can't imagine adding weights or pulleys to this thing. Getting it to work correctly takes some patience but once understood just keeping it really clean is most of the battle.
I replaced the bearings last week and so far so good, it is noticeably quieter in operation now.
I have stuck two little blobs of blue tack behind the rear bearings, looks stupid, but it seems to be doing something positive. I have no explanation but it sounds more coherent, it almost seems like the noise floor dropped. Probably deluding myself, but since it looks stupid I took it off and ended up putting it back.
All I can say is it is getting a lot more use than the other arm/cartridge combination.
Waiting on some parts and a cartridge for the other arm and I will perform the same surgery on the other table...
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The litz wiring should be longer and looped higher so its influence is out of question.
At CES in Jan. Clear audio had a spin off the Souther on there cheaper versions with added weight on the shaft and a considerable headschell mass that bolts to the cartridge directly.
Grabbing the headschell and checking how loose the 90 degree integrity to bearing wiggle was , I was rather alarmed at how sloppy it felt.
The added mass I concluded was to counteract this loose feel in operation.
The last thing you want is the pivot point of the cartridge,s shaft to wander with the tracking ability of the cartridge assembly platform while moving across the record
I will post a pic of the mass (probably seen it on their most expensive versions) added that must counteract what seems obvious from here
There exsists no perfect bearing that won,t add some low frequency component thru that rail system connected to the platter shaft-this must go asp!
Regards
David
At CES in Jan. Clear audio had a spin off the Souther on there cheaper versions with added weight on the shaft and a considerable headschell mass that bolts to the cartridge directly.
Grabbing the headschell and checking how loose the 90 degree integrity to bearing wiggle was , I was rather alarmed at how sloppy it felt.
The added mass I concluded was to counteract this loose feel in operation.
The last thing you want is the pivot point of the cartridge,s shaft to wander with the tracking ability of the cartridge assembly platform while moving across the record
I will post a pic of the mass (probably seen it on their most expensive versions) added that must counteract what seems obvious from here
There exsists no perfect bearing that won,t add some low frequency component thru that rail system connected to the platter shaft-this must go asp!
Regards
David
The litz tonearm wiring is a bit longer than it appears, but would benefit from being a bit longer. Placement is critical, the way the wire is currently oriented results in the carriage travel twisting the wire near the connector block rather than pushing on the wire which so far has greatly reduced the skipping I initially experienced.. I hope eventually to find a good source for the right kind of wire and make some new longer tonearm cables.
The new arm will get the outboard support set up I have on hand, at some point I may be able to come up with a clone for this arm, but will need a new arm board in order to be able to implement it. I assume bearing noise is being coupled into the arm this way but don't hear anything untoward, its absence is probably the only way to tell.
I haven't seen the inexpensive CA arm at a show yet, hopefully I will get to check one out at Son et Image next month.
Thanks for the insights, they are helpful and help confirm future plans.
The new arm will get the outboard support set up I have on hand, at some point I may be able to come up with a clone for this arm, but will need a new arm board in order to be able to implement it. I assume bearing noise is being coupled into the arm this way but don't hear anything untoward, its absence is probably the only way to tell.
I haven't seen the inexpensive CA arm at a show yet, hopefully I will get to check one out at Son et Image next month.
Thanks for the insights, they are helpful and help confirm future plans.
An advantage that the linear arm has is relative immunity from scrubbing along the groove during horizontal plane disturbances compared to an offset arm. Scrubbing is related to offset angle. A 12" arm is better than a 9" arm in this regard, and a linear arm fares best.
Ray K
Diyrayk,
i fully understand why it is better to use a tangential arm. What I was stating was the fact that it takes a pound of hardware and a bunch of shaky clunges to accomplish the goal. For many years I used a Koetsu on a Grace 707 arm. I was never able to hear just how good it was because the high compliance of the cart over came the mass of the arm. The type of platter and it's mass also contributes to the coloration of the original signal cut into the vinyl. Something as simple as a mat or clamp can change the output tremendously. What is the tracking error of a 9" arm? Maybe + or = 2 degrees. i am in no way saying that it we shouldn't try to get there, but who is going to tell us when we do. It just seems to me there are just too many variables that will affect the final signal output. Back in the day I had an old Rabco arm but it was never right. I have been at this for a long time, maybe my ears aren't what they used to be, but I still just love the MUSIC!
i fully understand why it is better to use a tangential arm. What I was stating was the fact that it takes a pound of hardware and a bunch of shaky clunges to accomplish the goal. For many years I used a Koetsu on a Grace 707 arm. I was never able to hear just how good it was because the high compliance of the cart over came the mass of the arm. The type of platter and it's mass also contributes to the coloration of the original signal cut into the vinyl. Something as simple as a mat or clamp can change the output tremendously. What is the tracking error of a 9" arm? Maybe + or = 2 degrees. i am in no way saying that it we shouldn't try to get there, but who is going to tell us when we do. It just seems to me there are just too many variables that will affect the final signal output. Back in the day I had an old Rabco arm but it was never right. I have been at this for a long time, maybe my ears aren't what they used to be, but I still just love the MUSIC!
You are right. pardon me as I dont know what I was thinking. Weights/Pulleys would make it complicated. Even if it were somehow made the weight would not have height to move up and down as one end will be on vinyl.
Regards.
Hi Kevin, Nice looking setup you have there now. I have been looking at pictures of the Souther and have not been able to tell exactly what the third rail was all about and how the carriage and bearings were positioned on the rails. Your photos of the bearings make them look like they have concave outer races to roll on cylindrical rails. Drawings of the specified bearing show flat outer races. Please post a simple line drawing showing how the rods and bearings relate to each other and what the third rod does.
Rgds,
BillG
Hi Bill,
The center rod is just to stiffen the plate.. The bearings are exactly as described in the patents and run on cylindrical quartz rods. The bearing outer races are flat, there is a flange at the rear of each bearing that keeps the carriage from running off the rods. The optics in my cell phone camera probably conspire against a better picture, but I will try. You can certainly see the effects of 30yrs+ of use on the rods and elsewhere. I try hard to keep the rods and races as clean as possible, wipe downs with swabs is frequent. I am at this point not having many issues with the arm, it works quite well in general, and I am rather pleased with the resulting sound. There are some issues still to address, the rubber washers used in place of the perished rubber pads perhaps need to be revisited.
The center rod is just to stiffen the plate.. The bearings are exactly as described in the patents and run on cylindrical quartz rods. The bearing outer races are flat, there is a flange at the rear of each bearing that keeps the carriage from running off the rods. The optics in my cell phone camera probably conspire against a better picture, but I will try. You can certainly see the effects of 30yrs+ of use on the rods and elsewhere. I try hard to keep the rods and races as clean as possible, wipe downs with swabs is frequent. I am at this point not having many issues with the arm, it works quite well in general, and I am rather pleased with the resulting sound. There are some issues still to address, the rubber washers used in place of the perished rubber pads perhaps need to be revisited.
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The new arm is mounted on the TD-124 MKII, I think the armboard is a bit ridiculous and I guess I could have used a standard sized one instead. Live and learn.
The arm is self supporting and despite appearances is not resting on the spindle.
I have some adjustments to make and then I will install the cartridge (a used windfeld) sometime later today or tomorrow.
The original cables are all in working order so I will use them initially with the arm completely stock.
The arm is self supporting and despite appearances is not resting on the spindle.
I have some adjustments to make and then I will install the cartridge (a used windfeld) sometime later today or tomorrow.
The original cables are all in working order so I will use them initially with the arm completely stock.
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I've installed the Windfeld on the SLA-3, which definitely shares many of better qualities of the gifted Tri-Quartz, I'm not sure I will be in any big rush to modify the arm.
The Windfeld is definitely at the upper end of the weight spectrum for this arm. I had to use two of the counter weights to be able to set the tracking force at my target 2.7gms.
It sounds pretty good, so my brief moment of buyer's remorse is assuage. It differs in a lot of ways from the Tri-Quartz I have in that it's not broken. The cuing mechanism on this arm actually locks which I have quickly discovered is a good thing. The mechanism on the Tri-Quartz has been modified and doesn't prevent the arm wand and carriage from crashing into the end of the arm, until I set up this arm I had no idea this was a feature of this arm.
It is also, um, much quieter than the well worn Tri-Quartz, in fact there is no comparison. It basically doesn't make any of the noises I hear in my gifted arm - so clearly more work to do on the older arm which is as I suspected.
It is also quite happily will play Soul of Man "The Drum" which is one of my acid test recordings.
The Windfeld is definitely at the upper end of the weight spectrum for this arm. I had to use two of the counter weights to be able to set the tracking force at my target 2.7gms.
It sounds pretty good, so my brief moment of buyer's remorse is assuage. It differs in a lot of ways from the Tri-Quartz I have in that it's not broken. The cuing mechanism on this arm actually locks which I have quickly discovered is a good thing. The mechanism on the Tri-Quartz has been modified and doesn't prevent the arm wand and carriage from crashing into the end of the arm, until I set up this arm I had no idea this was a feature of this arm.
It is also, um, much quieter than the well worn Tri-Quartz, in fact there is no comparison. It basically doesn't make any of the noises I hear in my gifted arm - so clearly more work to do on the older arm which is as I suspected.
It is also quite happily will play Soul of Man "The Drum" which is one of my acid test recordings.
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Dept of better to have loved and lost? Bar an MC2000 you seem to have every MC that I have dreamed of owning over the decades in one place! Let me know if you ever need to give the Benz a new home.
Most would sell on the work arm now. I suspect you have the bit between your teeth to get it to better than new spec?
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