I beg to differ on the midrange theme, though I must add that my information is now 10 years old.
My own Son Audax 4.5" midrange is a good example. It is essentially linear up to around 6 kHz, where the breakup begins to occur and by 8 kHz, it's no longer usable. It has a phase plug, too. In my case, it uses their version of aerogel for the cone, and from 11 years' worth of listening, I can attest to the fact that they are quite revealing and detailed. Reasonable sensitivity as well.
I do agree that good midrange drivers, especially dome types, are very hard to come by, however I would also suggest that a part of the reason for that is pure and simple fashon. These days, some manufacturers are highly favored, which is fine, but what is not fine is that because of this effect, other no less worthy manufacturers are being overlooked. For example, Isophon and ITT from Germany, Peerless of Denmark/Germany, and a slew of smaller and newer German companies might as well not exist. Yet, they did and still do have excellent drivers for just about any range.
Don't take my word for it Tom, take a look yourself, God bless the Internet.
Agreed, but 2 kHz is a bit too low. The good ones will go nicely up to 3-4 kHz, thus practically covering the entire mid range, thus taking the crossover points out of the most sensitive part of the spectrum for our ears.
I do belive, right or wrong, that AR's crossover points, 500 Hz/ 5kHz, thus squarely making the midrange dome do all of the midrange, was one of the reasons why their loudpeakers were so coherent and untainted, I believe even by modern standards.
Check out http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/anal...ng-analog-switches-multiplexers-opinions.html, and post #7 and discussions following. The advantages include speed, absence of dry contact problems, and especially cost.
One engineer said that the ideal crossover frequency for a 2 way speaker would by 7 kHz or higher . Then the phase shift and loss of the crossover is less important . This was leading on from an ideal speaker that can reproduce square-waves ( his design ) . In other words using the accepted route where would the compromises do least harm ?
That Philips unit I think was used with their mini Futtermans type amplifier . Quasi complimentary PP valve OTL about 4 watts used in TV's . The Croft OTL might be a generic of that design ?
Went to the hi fi show near Siverstone UK . One thing I heard that was great was a Lenco turntable in Inspire Hi Fi room through his wonderful ATC speakers . The Technics SP 10 not as good to my ears . Some 805 valves ( ? ) driven by 300 B . For once solid bass and 40 watts .
http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/index.php/amplifiers/46-valvetube-amps/498-ming-da-mc805-a-review.html
That Philips unit I think was used with their mini Futtermans type amplifier . Quasi complimentary PP valve OTL about 4 watts used in TV's . The Croft OTL might be a generic of that design ?
Went to the hi fi show near Siverstone UK . One thing I heard that was great was a Lenco turntable in Inspire Hi Fi room through his wonderful ATC speakers . The Technics SP 10 not as good to my ears . Some 805 valves ( ? ) driven by 300 B . For once solid bass and 40 watts .
http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/index.php/amplifiers/46-valvetube-amps/498-ming-da-mc805-a-review.html
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A Serbian alcoholic , one who whizzes out info .......
It's probably my 25% of Austrian blood speaking, but I do not consider beer to be an alcoholic beveradge, rather a kind of a strong milk, sort of.
With that in mind, I can honestly swear on the Bible and/or Playboy that I don't touch any alcoholic beverage whatsoever. Even beer only with barbeque, though in hot summer days, a cold beer is a gift from Heven.
My personal booze is orange juice, as cold as possible, and gallons of it. If none, then cold milk will also do the trick.
Lately, I have also taken up aronia. Who says Siberia is badlands?
This prompted my question about whizzers, and despite your comprehensive response, I still don't know what that is.
Beer is food . Bread . In England it saved our lives as it was the only sterile water in the pre Victorian times .
I was told of an irony . New York has some of the best water in the world in terms of purity and supply source . The irony is the bottle water sold is almost certainly isn't as good . New York happens to be a place where bottled water sales are way above average . The power of marketing hey !
I was told of an irony . New York has some of the best water in the world in terms of purity and supply source . The irony is the bottle water sold is almost certainly isn't as good . New York happens to be a place where bottled water sales are way above average . The power of marketing hey !
Since that is not very practical, as it assumes a "bass/mid" driver capable of staying linear up to 7 kHz, a true division to bass and mid drivers will probably be required.
What may be possible to do is to have the bass/mid crossover at say 350 Hz or so, and keep it going to 5, or perhas even 6 or 7 kHz.
However you spin it, it all comes back down to a 3 way loudspeaker, as I have maintained for over 30 years now, this being the possibly best overall arrangement for minimum fuss and maximum linearity without becoming too complicated.
Back to AR, but this time, JBL also. AR did it at 500 Hz and 5 kHz, JBL didi it one their 4312 monitor at 1 and 6 kHz. I do believe those gentlemen knew eaxctly what they were doing.
Nige, I just couldn't trust a "bass/mid" driver extended to 7 kHz to do anything even only seeming to be true bass at say -3 dB at 40 Hz anechoic.
Not losing hope, I dug this up:
Products - PeerlessAudio.com
A 3" soft midrange dome, rated from 500 Hz to 7 kHz, neodymium magnet, afficiency 94 dB, 8 Ohms.
This is just one example from Peerless. There are sure to be more.
Products - PeerlessAudio.com
A 3" soft midrange dome, rated from 500 Hz to 7 kHz, neodymium magnet, afficiency 94 dB, 8 Ohms.
This is just one example from Peerless. There are sure to be more.
DVV, this is a good example of what I mean. At 2.5 khz, beaming becomes an issue already. And this is only a 3''.
Another observation is that the Fs is almost 400 Hz. This implies that if you cross over at 500 Hz, there still is some considerable phase shift to contend with. Not at all trivial to design a crossover that does this right.
Another observation is that the Fs is almost 400 Hz. This implies that if you cross over at 500 Hz, there still is some considerable phase shift to contend with. Not at all trivial to design a crossover that does this right.
Agreed, but I never said it was without fault, despite the company name.
Agreed on the low end, it should be taking over at 600 or 700 Hz.
Vacuphile, when my friend and I were developing my speakers, it took us less than 3 weeks to have a working prototype.
It then took us 6 MONTHS to get the crossover just right. I don't remember how many versions in between, but it sure was many. Just when you get one thing exactly right, something else shifts and is no longer just right. Quite maddening. And to add insult to injury, we wanted a constant impedance XO (or as near as we can get to it).
But it paid off. Its impedance is nominally 8 Ohms, minimum 6.5 Ohms, worst case phase shift -27 degrees, efficiency 92 dB/2.83V/1m. A really easy load to drive, any 5 Watt SET would be happy with it. Heck, I drove it with my headphones amp in my room, and for quiet listening, it was just fine, except that on particular very high dynamic passages you could hear the lack of drive power. BTW, my BJT version of the headphone amp uses Motorola/ON Semi MJE 15030/15031 in a SEPP, hand selected and matched pairs. The FET version (FETs in the input, MOSFETs at the output) uses 70W complementary output devices. So yes, both can actually drive loudspeakers in rooms, but at a low power only from their shunt regulated PSUs.
I never regretted a second of time spent on that loudspeaker. No plans to change. We couldn't have done it without all that Nescafe.
measurement vs sound quality.. i think those two aspects should go hand and hand, measurements ensures amps are working properly and wont burn out and amps that works well are more likely to sound better. im not an engineer,but i think one should compliment the other rather continue the never ending debate. anyway why does height and vital stats are crucial in beauty pageant? again these are measurements but does not show the contestants level of intelligence. and just like beauty, a good sound depends to the person listening, so lets end the long debate
and for us, isnt it good to have an amp with good specs?somehow we are assured that this amp wont burn up and spoil the party, and that amp is a good contender for fine tuning according to ones preference. i dont think you want to keep a good sounding amp thats hotter than an oven and good at eating tweeters for snackA lot of trouble is cased here . We dare say what we hear . A love of music is mostly what is needed .
I went to the Whittlebury hi fi show yesterday ( and today helping Loricraft my friend of 22 years ) . Pretty boxes that somehow aren't working too well .
Then went to meet Bruce Windwood who was showing his film to the village to say thank you for our help ( 12 in a box ) . It is the village halls digital cinema . Here is the bad news . Our village cinema beat 90 % of the show . Sorry guys it did and not subtly . Same limitations as the show or worse .
One exception was the Inspire Hi Fi room whose Lenco was excellent and to my ears better than an SP 10 . The SP10 nearly does everything well . I never exactly gets to the peaks somehow . He was using ATC speakers which I am pleased to say are noticeably better than our village cinema . His LP12 upgrades seem cheap and correct to my eyes . Was tempted to buy some bits for my in the loft LP12 .
Some 805 valves driven by 300 B were sounding very OK . The heat in the room was oppressive . How can a 40 watt output do that ? My little 8 watt version seem the best it gets . I mostly dislike valves so to say anything says a lot . I have never much liked 300 B , as driver it seems to shine ( good way to say it as it did have sparkle ) . I often prefer EL 34 as an output device . It has 300 B strengths with more punch .
I went to the Whittlebury hi fi show yesterday ( and today helping Loricraft my friend of 22 years ) . Pretty boxes that somehow aren't working too well .
Then went to meet Bruce Windwood who was showing his film to the village to say thank you for our help ( 12 in a box ) . It is the village halls digital cinema . Here is the bad news . Our village cinema beat 90 % of the show . Sorry guys it did and not subtly . Same limitations as the show or worse .
One exception was the Inspire Hi Fi room whose Lenco was excellent and to my ears better than an SP 10 . The SP10 nearly does everything well . I never exactly gets to the peaks somehow . He was using ATC speakers which I am pleased to say are noticeably better than our village cinema . His LP12 upgrades seem cheap and correct to my eyes . Was tempted to buy some bits for my in the loft LP12 .
Some 805 valves driven by 300 B were sounding very OK . The heat in the room was oppressive . How can a 40 watt output do that ? My little 8 watt version seem the best it gets . I mostly dislike valves so to say anything says a lot . I have never much liked 300 B , as driver it seems to shine ( good way to say it as it did have sparkle ) . I often prefer EL 34 as an output device . It has 300 B strengths with more punch .
The cinema PA setup beating most show hifi I can understand - some of the best audio I've heard has come from correctly done commercal gear; because the latter usually has dynamics well and truly under control, whereas the home stuff is struggling to get to first base ...
Good audio is no mystery: it's a combination of the dynamic effortlessness of competent professional equipment, with the lack of disturbing artifacts that well sorted out audiophile systems are capable of achieving at low levels. Just combine the two elements in one hybrid - and job's done ...
Good audio is no mystery: it's a combination of the dynamic effortlessness of competent professional equipment, with the lack of disturbing artifacts that well sorted out audiophile systems are capable of achieving at low levels. Just combine the two elements in one hybrid - and job's done ...
Nigel, the Beta 12 LTA is a fine driver. Some folks use it without a tweeter, just let it go all the way up. You may like it that way. IMO, it sounds best when you get out of it by 6K.
The problem being, the whizzer makes it hard to get a smooth transition to the the tweeter. I suppose one could remove the whizzer, or put cotton around its base to tame the ragged top end.
Speaking of whizzers - isn't part of what they do simply to prevent beaming at high frequencies? Do they actually add any HF on axis, or do they just spread it around?
The problem being, the whizzer makes it hard to get a smooth transition to the the tweeter. I suppose one could remove the whizzer, or put cotton around its base to tame the ragged top end.
Speaking of whizzers - isn't part of what they do simply to prevent beaming at high frequencies? Do they actually add any HF on axis, or do they just spread it around?
The main thing is make a start . Nice for me some paying work has turned so I must not moan . Tax return needs doing also .
Whizzer cone is what some call a parasitic tweeter .
Did my stint at the hi fi show today . What beautiful people , if the whole world could be this way . Too exhausted to say more .
Whizzer cone is what some call a parasitic tweeter .
Did my stint at the hi fi show today . What beautiful people , if the whole world could be this way . Too exhausted to say more .
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