Since your hearing experience is not citable, nor independently reproducible, since your system is technically unknown nor if it is a reference in the sense of audio laboratories, I need at least to see an attempt for a scientific (not marketing) acoustic analysis.
Then I will have no problem to accept I did wrong to confuse all this work with a dubious marketing claims vs. money, and false usage practice of copy/paste from DIY-audio.
Thanks for your kind invitation. I would enjoy the presence of those guys which you mention, but I have currently other plans, inconsistent with Time-Nuts format.
I do hope to meet them in reality, someday, in a conference or other suitable meeting format.
@Ionmw,
The detailed effects of close-in phase noise on audio dacs has never been seriously studied (other than for basic effect on noise floor), at least to my knowledge. However, the effects are well known in the field of radar. A simple models is described in plain language in the attached document. Extensive mathematical treatment can be found in some texts and academic papers. For example: Phase Noise in FMCW Radar Systems | IEEE Journals & Magazine | IEEE Xplore
My suspicion is that at least in part, the same mechanism that affects radar also affects music reproduction. In the latter application, a full symphony may have many thousands of distinct frequencies at once, many just for a single instrument, that are very close in frequency and constantly changing (since musical instruments are never perfectly in tune with each other).
Also, since noise floor associated with clock phase noise is in part a function of the audio signal, it means noise floor modulation will occur to some extent. There is some proprietary research (such as by ESS) showing humans can be exquisitely sensitive to very low level noise floor modulation (noise level correlation with audio signal). In addition, the research shows normal people can be trained to hear it, whereas some people tend to hear the perceptual effect naturally. I would add that perceptually it doesn't sound like what we normally might think of as being more or less like white noise.
The detailed effects of close-in phase noise on audio dacs has never been seriously studied (other than for basic effect on noise floor), at least to my knowledge. However, the effects are well known in the field of radar. A simple models is described in plain language in the attached document. Extensive mathematical treatment can be found in some texts and academic papers. For example: Phase Noise in FMCW Radar Systems | IEEE Journals & Magazine | IEEE Xplore
My suspicion is that at least in part, the same mechanism that affects radar also affects music reproduction. In the latter application, a full symphony may have many thousands of distinct frequencies at once, many just for a single instrument, that are very close in frequency and constantly changing (since musical instruments are never perfectly in tune with each other).
Also, since noise floor associated with clock phase noise is in part a function of the audio signal, it means noise floor modulation will occur to some extent. There is some proprietary research (such as by ESS) showing humans can be exquisitely sensitive to very low level noise floor modulation (noise level correlation with audio signal). In addition, the research shows normal people can be trained to hear it, whereas some people tend to hear the perceptual effect naturally. I would add that perceptually it doesn't sound like what we normally might think of as being more or less like white noise.
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You don't know my age.
I don't give lessons to anyone, at the same time I cannot take lesson from you.
It's not me who has to observe a minimum of decency, tell this to those who continue to insult the members of this forum (and also to those who copy and paste the insults).
About my co-developer Roberto A., please ask Gerhard if you are so interested.
This is only true to prevent tax cheats; it’s not an accurate description alone. You don’t have to make profit to have a legit business, there are other factors including if you depend on it for income. If you needed to actually profit to be a business then there would be a lot fewer businesses. The IRS just wants to see you trying and not creating a vehicle for tax deductions.
I hope you meet this guy, you will learn a lot from him, humility too,
and if you can, take syn08 with you too.
Enrico Rubiola home page
I cannot help it, but now it comes to my mind as extremely enthusiastic also Rassmunsen on this forum, of curse among many others (you and I included).
Aussie or Italy, places, wines and foods do not matter. But what we do here (in the non-business sections of DIY-audio) should include a lot of efforts to position ourselves beyond any marketing BS arguments and their typical callousness approach. Andreas lack of respect for anyone daring to question him is mindblowing.
Andrea's fan club is very small, while syn08's fan club has a lot of followers.
So your business is sure to be better than mine.
But I'm not worried, instead I'm very proud for this.
You are very wrong, you can question everything, not a problem for me.
But you cannot say that you can teach me to do what I have already done and also enough well.
This is pure presumption, which ultimately equates to lack of respect.
This is what the self proclaimed guru does, often aided and abetted by their fans. It's funny really, some of them are even moderators or wannabe moderators.
Andrea, I see are you so young that you did not attend ever a serious conference. There, there is no such thing as humility per se. In scholar sense, disputes are happening every day. It is all about how you deal with disputes: by respect, consideration and scientific arguments. Rest is to be discussed outside the conference place.
You do not have either of the three qualities. One of them does not come with school or experience.
Humility, should be understood in the sense of scholars, not in the sense "Andrea has spoken, all other quiet! He is master, while he was lucky. Everyone else is idiot and obviously not qualified". Have you heard of beginners luck? 99% is your case. Rest what you display is disrespect and thug, callousness, not civilized. Good luck.
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Please, ask to become a moderator so you can ban me, then in the end only your club will remain.
You don't read carefully, I have said several times that we are just a couple of lucky hobbyists.
Having said that I stop here and I will no longer reply to those like you and syn08 (and your club).
The discussion is sterile and I prefer the read about the topic related do the title of the thread.
All I contended and demanded (no wish to teach you), is this:
- fine, you got good results (beginners luck, with 99% external help, be realistic and really humble about it, even if later you understood the topics)
- for RF you proved it, somehow you've got yourself a Demonstrator unit which measures well.
- for audio, NOT YET.
- before making claims of success in audio, and look to obtain support, prove them!
- until then, and especially after success if ever, be respectful. This one you irreparably blew it very bad, for a very long time to come.
Did you read this sentence too? Do you acknowledge it, and still let it pass like nothing interesting happened here, concerning your behavior?
For now, this promise is enough. Please keep it. The door to your own OP threads is only a click away. Keep your club there, on those topics, until you solve the issues. Until then, this topic is adverse to your business dreams, and poisonous to many of us, especially when dealing with your disrespect and limited knowledge.
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