Banned
Joined 2002
But Wait! , no , you see Planet 10 actually flipped it for me!
And now he's trying to make me look CRAZY - It's a conspiracy --that's what it is. I'm innocent I tell ya!!
awwww never mind....
Here is a very interesting coax reference:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=578597#post578597
Well actually the coax's are here:
http://www.assistanceaudio.com/17_BMSC&C.html
Assistance Audio makes a variation also -click on the link!
reasonably cheap (+- $300 ) and some claims of the best horn driver ever!
And now he's trying to make me look CRAZY - It's a conspiracy --that's what it is. I'm innocent I tell ya!!
awwww never mind....
Here is a very interesting coax reference:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=578597#post578597
Well actually the coax's are here:
http://www.assistanceaudio.com/17_BMSC&C.html
Assistance Audio makes a variation also -click on the link!
reasonably cheap (+- $300 ) and some claims of the best horn driver ever!
PAudio
I have looked into these coax's and they are very nice for the money. I think the 15cxa was very reasonable. I almost bought a set from US Speaker but went for the Radians instead. For what it is worth Coomonsense Audio suggests just using one cap for the crossover on all of the Paudio coax drivers. He sells the entire line but he is not the cheapest around. US Speaker is the best I could find. When i talked to the Distributor about my project he said to stay away from the drivers with the built in horn. In his opinion they did not sound as good as the ones without.
I have looked into these coax's and they are very nice for the money. I think the 15cxa was very reasonable. I almost bought a set from US Speaker but went for the Radians instead. For what it is worth Coomonsense Audio suggests just using one cap for the crossover on all of the Paudio coax drivers. He sells the entire line but he is not the cheapest around. US Speaker is the best I could find. When i talked to the Distributor about my project he said to stay away from the drivers with the built in horn. In his opinion they did not sound as good as the ones without.
http://www.commonsenseaudio.com/
According to these guy everything they sell is better than anything else
which can't ALSWAYS be true- but they are a good resource.
I guess by "the built in horns" , you mean the ones with a rectangular horn visable. not the ones with the smaller horn hidden under the dustcap.
According to these guy everything they sell is better than anything else
which can't ALSWAYS be true- but they are a good resource.
I guess by "the built in horns" , you mean the ones with a rectangular horn visable. not the ones with the smaller horn hidden under the dustcap.
I think it really depends on your budget and goals. The seleniums are good for the money, but the build quality isn't there and the tweeters are rough for anything but a party cab. The PAudio stuff is built like a tank but it's designed for PA, so it would be great for a party cab you'll own forever. In the in-between price range are the HE kits at Adire. You still get the efficiency, but HE's are much smoother in the upper range. If you really want the low end slam for use as a party cab too, maybe add an LF woofer along the lines of the Hurricane by Adire. I have both the selenium 15 coax's and the Adire HE8.1's and would recommend spending the extra $100 or so and get the adire 10's or 12's unless you are on a really tight budget.
Radian coax's
well, i got my Radian 15 inch coax's yesterday. Right off the bat I was dissappointed in the way they were boxed. I put them in a ported cab that I use for testing. I can adjust the port size on it so it works out fairly well. While these speakers sound ok (nothing great) I do not feel they are worth $550 each! If you want to try a coax I suggest something less costly Like a PAudio 15cxa. While I will still continue with the Imperial project, I do not think I will be using these. maybe the problem is pro drivers have to be heavy duty and to do that maybe you have to lose some clarity, I dont really know. When I listened to these my setup was biamping with electronic crossover set to Radians suggestion. I used a doc bottlehead Parasex amp for the top end and a Audionote tube amp fo the bottom. believe me, this stuff is good gear so it's not that. I have one suggestion though. If you plan on buying a set I would demand that they be packed in something other than what Radian uses. These are heavy pieces and one of mine had the bottom foam crushed and the driver was just flopping around in a flimsy(my opinion)single walled box. Lets face it, UPS is rough. In my opinion company's should take this into account. Enough said.
well, i got my Radian 15 inch coax's yesterday. Right off the bat I was dissappointed in the way they were boxed. I put them in a ported cab that I use for testing. I can adjust the port size on it so it works out fairly well. While these speakers sound ok (nothing great) I do not feel they are worth $550 each! If you want to try a coax I suggest something less costly Like a PAudio 15cxa. While I will still continue with the Imperial project, I do not think I will be using these. maybe the problem is pro drivers have to be heavy duty and to do that maybe you have to lose some clarity, I dont really know. When I listened to these my setup was biamping with electronic crossover set to Radians suggestion. I used a doc bottlehead Parasex amp for the top end and a Audionote tube amp fo the bottom. believe me, this stuff is good gear so it's not that. I have one suggestion though. If you plan on buying a set I would demand that they be packed in something other than what Radian uses. These are heavy pieces and one of mine had the bottom foam crushed and the driver was just flopping around in a flimsy(my opinion)single walled box. Lets face it, UPS is rough. In my opinion company's should take this into account. Enough said.
Craig the Imperial is picky about what drivers work well . At a minimum you should download HornResp and plug in the Imperial horn dimensions and the specs for different drivers to get an idea before you spend any more money. Even though they are far from ideal, I already have a pair of the selenium 15's and I've been wanting to try a styrofoam based horn. Worst case, I can use them as subwoofers with almost any LF driver.
Before writing off the radians, I'd give them at least a good overnight run in. Just put your temporary cabs face to face with an out of phase mono signal and play them at high levels overnight.
Before writing off the radians, I'd give them at least a good overnight run in. Just put your temporary cabs face to face with an out of phase mono signal and play them at high levels overnight.
Radians
Hi. yea, you are right about the drivers for the Imperial. I ran the speakers all night in the basement and gave them a listen this morning before going to work. They still did not sound so hot. maybe they are broken and maybe it's just me but i still say that in my opinion they are overpriced. As far as the Imperial goes, i am going to go back to a three way which is how I started the project. That might not work either but what the hell, it's a hobby right?
Hi. yea, you are right about the drivers for the Imperial. I ran the speakers all night in the basement and gave them a listen this morning before going to work. They still did not sound so hot. maybe they are broken and maybe it's just me but i still say that in my opinion they are overpriced. As far as the Imperial goes, i am going to go back to a three way which is how I started the project. That might not work either but what the hell, it's a hobby right?
Radians
Hi MCP. I have been using tubes for a long time and find them to sound much better than transistor. I will be the first to admit that a transistor amp has better control over a woofer than a tube amp but I still prefer the sound of the tubes plus I use these amps every day and know their weaknesses. naturally it's a matter of choice as to which you prefer. Dont get me wrong, I appreciate the advice. If I can bum a transistor amp, I will certainly give it a try but i think the issue at least for me is using pro drivers may not be the way to go. I have puchased a lot of drivers and the only ones that I have found to date to be consistently good have been Fostex. The problem for me is they do not make a driver that I can use on this project. And Speaking of them, I used to buy these drivers directly from Japan and each and every one was packaged well, and I recieved well. Why cant the co's that I deal with here in the states do the same. i could tell you some real horror stories about deliveries. Sorry for ranting. Craig
Hi MCP. I have been using tubes for a long time and find them to sound much better than transistor. I will be the first to admit that a transistor amp has better control over a woofer than a tube amp but I still prefer the sound of the tubes plus I use these amps every day and know their weaknesses. naturally it's a matter of choice as to which you prefer. Dont get me wrong, I appreciate the advice. If I can bum a transistor amp, I will certainly give it a try but i think the issue at least for me is using pro drivers may not be the way to go. I have puchased a lot of drivers and the only ones that I have found to date to be consistently good have been Fostex. The problem for me is they do not make a driver that I can use on this project. And Speaking of them, I used to buy these drivers directly from Japan and each and every one was packaged well, and I recieved well. Why cant the co's that I deal with here in the states do the same. i could tell you some real horror stories about deliveries. Sorry for ranting. Craig
Radians
Hi Hornlover. Yes that is correct. The Radian is pretty darn close at 39 but i feel a couple of the other specs are important like qts and xmax too. I am no expert on horns but have been told it is very hard to figure out on paper which driver to use. I dont mind trial and error, after all this is our hobby. I have also heard that this cabinet (the Imperial) is pretty forgiving when it comes to woofers yet someone else said to me just the opposite. When i was starting to look into drivers I was considering a set of PAudios I was told by the dealer that he was 90% sure they would work in these cabs but he was 100% sure that a pair of old Electro-Voice triaxials would work Naturally he was selling both for about the same price I might add. I asked him what the reason was. he said the Electro-Voice had very little cone motion compared to the PAudio and there was a possiblity that that driver would overload the cab. I think that's how he put it. Go figure.
Craig
Hi Hornlover. Yes that is correct. The Radian is pretty darn close at 39 but i feel a couple of the other specs are important like qts and xmax too. I am no expert on horns but have been told it is very hard to figure out on paper which driver to use. I dont mind trial and error, after all this is our hobby. I have also heard that this cabinet (the Imperial) is pretty forgiving when it comes to woofers yet someone else said to me just the opposite. When i was starting to look into drivers I was considering a set of PAudios I was told by the dealer that he was 90% sure they would work in these cabs but he was 100% sure that a pair of old Electro-Voice triaxials would work Naturally he was selling both for about the same price I might add. I asked him what the reason was. he said the Electro-Voice had very little cone motion compared to the PAudio and there was a possiblity that that driver would overload the cab. I think that's how he put it. Go figure.
Craig
Not sure what he meant, but a BLH is nothing more than a BR with a very big vent, and just like a BR, the main problem is the driver running out of excursion trying to drive such a big vent above its tuning frequency so more linear excursion is a plus.
Anyway, look at the size of the filter chamber/throat, they're huge, so it was designed for a highish Qt system, ergo with lower Qt drivers significant series R is required to 'fill' it.
GM
hey GM. Maybe I got it wrong in what he said but I am almost sure that was accurate. If what you are saying is true, and I believe it is, then it would make the project a lot easier because low QTS drivers are tougher to find. I never thought of the blh as a large br. That is very interesting and I can see what you are saying. I have never heard that description. What is your definition of highish QTS. number wise? Thanks for the input. Craig
Over at the Decware forum, they like drivers with a Qt in the mid to high .3 range. This is in the build-in version, which Jensen recommended the same P15-LL driver. I have tried to find numbers on the P15-LL, but nobody seems to know the parameters of that driver, other than Jensens published Fs of 37Hz.
I see what appears to be a lot of misinformation floating around on the net (the net is a great place for anyone to act like an expert, huh!). I think the higher Fs myth is from an article on driver selection that Jensen did based on a different version of the Imperial build-in. This was not the original version of the imperial, but a variation, utilizing a different rear chamber (with 'W' foldings). This is the only place in the published Jensen material I have seen that mentions a driver Fs higher than 40Hz. I have never seen any info from Jensen on modifying the P15-LL for the original Imperial. If anybody knows otherwise, please give a url of the article. I like to find out all I can about these legendary enclosures. The article I am refering to is here:
http://www.hifilit.com/hifilit/Jensen/Jensen.htm
Look at the 'March 1952' article.
http://www.hifilit.com/hifilit/Jensen/Jensen.htm
Look at the 'March 1952' article.
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