Okay, we have all heard how amazing the seas excel line of woofers are but has anyone had any experience with the much more affordable "standard line".
The other range of drivers i have in mind are the Peerless HDS line, more speciffically the 8" HDS.
I would like to build a pair of 2way floorstanders preferably with 8" drivers. can anyone help me out.
Also what is a good tweeter available in Australia for under $100AUS. and where can i get it.
The other range of drivers i have in mind are the Peerless HDS line, more speciffically the 8" HDS.
I would like to build a pair of 2way floorstanders preferably with 8" drivers. can anyone help me out.
Also what is a good tweeter available in Australia for under $100AUS. and where can i get it.
A 2-way using the Peerless 8" HDS (850490) is going to have to crossover quite low. If think it's been designed more for a woofer in a 3-way. There's been plenty of discussions on pros and cons for 8" 2-ways.
IMO you're better off with the 6 1/2" either HDS 850594? or the CSX 850122.
Have used the CSX in a 2-way floorstander and is an amazing driver. Also used the HDS, but in the 5". A good tweeter which I've used with the HDS is the Peerless 810653 which was designed to compliment the HDS drivers. At A$53.50 from http://www.advanceae.com.au a good buy. I have used the XLS version of 8" HDS (830491) for bass output only in a small sub.
For Peerless PDF's see www.wescomponents.com.
IMO you're better off with the 6 1/2" either HDS 850594? or the CSX 850122.
Have used the CSX in a 2-way floorstander and is an amazing driver. Also used the HDS, but in the 5". A good tweeter which I've used with the HDS is the Peerless 810653 which was designed to compliment the HDS drivers. At A$53.50 from http://www.advanceae.com.au a good buy. I have used the XLS version of 8" HDS (830491) for bass output only in a small sub.
For Peerless PDF's see www.wescomponents.com.
michael said:
If you are going to make a pure bass construction in addition, no standard line or Excel (As far as I know) is able to reconstruct the bass how it is ment to be.
You'll get quite close, if you choose a 10" or 12" Peerless XLS, or the extreme Brahma series. The thing is the bowed BL parameters, which is the main issue to overcome. All bass speakers have a bowed BL parameter, which means the surround of a speaker will gradually hold back the membrane more and more at higher amplitude. This mechanism will compress the peaks in a bass signal and then compress the transient reproduction, thus not credible reproduction.
In a 2-way construction you might get help making a Linqwitz-Greiner filter which moves the speakers resonance frequency to a lower frequency, thus quite straight frequency responce, inkcuding good pulse responce, down to the 30 - 40 Hz.
The Peerless XLS speaker is not recommended for 2-way systems.
Br.
the reason i wanted to use the HDS 8" is because i wanted to have impressive bass response from a 2way floorstander. Could i cross the woofer at 2000Hz to a seas tweeter (T27TFFC), i have chosen this tweeter due to low resonance and cost and also a fabric dome. i think that this tweeter will be able to be crossed at around 1.8 or 2KHz, i think the HDS 8 crossed here or even ever so slighty below due to a bump at 1.5 woul match up well.
any and all comments are more than welcome
any and all comments are more than welcome
oh yeah, by the way, I have used the Seas 27TFFC in two design and i don't think they handle low crossover point so well. It is true that a lot of people have used them with low crossover pts like 1800 Hz or 2000hz. So i did the same thing but the sound was getting harsh at medium/high volume levels, even with steeps slopes (3rd order). I think this tweeter can handle the power OK but it is limited in linear excursion (+-0.25mm is NOT enough). I suggest trying a tweeter with more Xmax.
F
F
michael said:
I have some experience with Seas standard line drivers. Look to their older poly series for 8" drivers that might work well in a 2-way system. P21RFX/P or P21REX comes to mind.
I'm currently working on a 3-way using the new L22RN4XP. It has decent Xmax for an 8", and an F3 of about 33hz in a vented 1 cu ft box. (using actual measured driver T/S params) Seas' new L-series drivers sound incredible and measure up well to their Excel series, IMHO. I'm sure the distortion in the Excels might be a bit lower but the real difference in these drivers is inductance. The L22RN4XP could never be used in a 2-way because it's inductance is around 2.5 mH and the breakup node is at 4khz. In a 3-way though, it kicks ***.
L22RN4XP Sample 1 Vas Delta Compliance Method
Fs: 23.5600 Hertz
Qts: 0.2823
Qes: 0.3075
Qms: 3.4484
Vas: 62.0034 litres
Re: 5.8281 ohms
Le: 2.4336 mH
SPL: 86.04 dB 1w/1m
BL: 11.53 Tesla meters
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Infinite baffle measurements:
25TFFC onaxis
25TFFC 30 deg off axis
L12RCYP onaxis
L22RN4XP onaxis
gary f said:
The main problem by using small bass drivers is the loss of required air load in order to achieve a correct pulse response at very low frequencies. It's no problem making small enclosures playing deeeeep and loud with a vented system, but the drawback is, in addition to quite complex crossover design, that the bass gain is achieved at a very narrow frequency range only, not at pulses, or transients if you like. A pulse will also make a "BOOOOOM" in the vent - not a desirable sound.
That's the reason why speakers armed with 15" og 18" drivers sound very dynamic and realistic, in comparison to a dull 8" or 6,5" driver.
Br.
gary f said:
I've used the 27TFFC in about 6 designs. (obviously it's one of my favorites) I've crossed it over around 2000 many times, often with only 2nd order electrical, and it sounded great and handled sufficient power. My recent usage was with an L15 woofer, with good results. Folks who heard it at DIY 2003 Milwaukee seemed to like it.
This driver does have a little top octave energy storage. One thing I often do is tame the top octave a bit with a shelving circuit. This results in a much more natural and non-fatiguing sound. The 27TFFC has good, extended top octave response for such a large tweeter and surprisingly the shelving circuit does not make the tweeter sound dull but in fact makes the tonal balance seem just right.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
ok all of your advice has been really good.
here are the conclusions i have drawn so far.
The seas 27TFFC is a very good tweeter. good.
Any 8" woofer is going to have an annoying crossover design, bummer.
It would be so easy to just get a mid here, but it cost more, lots more, adds another 50% to my initial costs.
So help me out with a crossover to apply to that HDS woofer, and btw do you think i could try the predesigned crossover on the PFD?
all help appreciated. thanks
here are the conclusions i have drawn so far.
The seas 27TFFC is a very good tweeter. good.
Any 8" woofer is going to have an annoying crossover design, bummer.
It would be so easy to just get a mid here, but it cost more, lots more, adds another 50% to my initial costs.
So help me out with a crossover to apply to that HDS woofer, and btw do you think i could try the predesigned crossover on the PFD?
all help appreciated. thanks
Rabbitz said:
"You can get F3=34Hz with the 850122 6 1/2" CSX which betters the 850490 8" HDS (with WinISD)."
Yeah, what gives with those 8" Peerless drivers. I banged on about this a while back concerned that the HDS and CSX 8" units would be weak in bass--they just don't seem to model well.
Mos
"You can get F3=34Hz with the 850122 6 1/2" CSX which betters the 850490 8" HDS (with WinISD)."
Yeah, what gives with those 8" Peerless drivers. I banged on about this a while back concerned that the HDS and CSX 8" units would be weak in bass--they just don't seem to model well.
Mos
MICHAEL my young friend you should check out Bob BRINES PEERLESS pipe design at http:// geocities. com/rbrines1/ Pages/ Peerless_Pipe. html and in answer to your tweeter query check out the Richter shielded soft dome tweeter on offer at www.speakerbits.com for au $24.50 ea thereis a PDF download with all specs on this driver normal ret au$75 you can email Tom Manning at ortofon@labyrinth.net.au for more detail
cheers and best regards Tomcat
ps; ok this may not be what you are exactly looking for but the peerless pipes have a solid bottom down to 40Hz only using a 61/2"driver and on top of that the box isn't very complicated; quite straight forward in fact.....
cheers and best regards Tomcat ps; ok this may not be what you are exactly looking for but the peerless pipes have a solid bottom down to 40Hz only using a 61/2"driver and on top of that the box isn't very complicated; quite straight forward in fact.....ok, everyone hates the Peerless 8" woofers, i better choose something else.
I know that lots of people like that 6.5" CSX woofer.
Anyone had any experience with its big brother the HDS 6.5" which has been compared to SS drivers?
I think it offers some high potential (im refering to the Phase plug version (850467 btw)
Do you think there is anything in the Seas line to compare it against fairly.
thanks guys and also do you think phase plugs are worth the while?
I know that lots of people like that 6.5" CSX woofer.
Anyone had any experience with its big brother the HDS 6.5" which has been compared to SS drivers?
I think it offers some high potential (im refering to the Phase plug version (850467 btw)
Do you think there is anything in the Seas line to compare it against fairly.
thanks guys and also do you think phase plugs are worth the while?
NO if you check the data sheets of the other driver without phase plug you will see that the top end roll off is much smoother in this case the phase plug isnt doing the driver[ as the top end roll off is quite a bit ragged} or your pocket any favours as it is a bit more expensive for something that is going to be more difficult to intergrate with the tweeter....
Well, no, not everyone hates the 8" HDS. If you go to:
http://wescomponents.com
and look at the data and comments on the 850490 8" HDS it is highly regarded and quite capable of good reults in a 2 way.
How about pairing it with a Peerless D27 tweeter (fs=600?) or a Vifa XT25 (fs=500)?
or you could do what I'm doing and build a 3 way tower with 2 x 850490, 1 x 850488 and XT25
Mos
http://wescomponents.com
and look at the data and comments on the 850490 8" HDS it is highly regarded and quite capable of good reults in a 2 way.
How about pairing it with a Peerless D27 tweeter (fs=600?) or a Vifa XT25 (fs=500)?
or you could do what I'm doing and build a 3 way tower with 2 x 850490, 1 x 850488 and XT25
Mos
could you help me in a 2way XO design? im not very good with crossover design, i was just going to use the one recomended on the HDS 8" data sheet.
I would like to use a high quality tweeter but cant afford SS, so this led me to the Seas tweeters, i thought id give them a shot since the XT is just a little pricey for me.
I would like to use a high quality tweeter but cant afford SS, so this led me to the Seas tweeters, i thought id give them a shot since the XT is just a little pricey for me.
michael, there is no valid reason you can't use an 8"driver in a two way'specially the hds from peerless so apply the kiss principle ie; KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID so stay with a 2 way almost any tweet of respectable parantage should be able to work down to at least 2.5k which should be twice fs and as for x/overs again applying the kiss principle visit
[url]http://users.tpg.com.au/users/ gradds/series_cross-overs.htm
I can vouch for series x/overs as I have used them in the past and if you do you will more than likely come up with a system that will work first time rather than fumbling around in the dark trying to find an acceptable section network that will work and sound good too my suggestion is:
0.45 mh
.
.
4.7 uf
and of course the ballancing resistor you'll know what I'm talking about once you visit the above site..... cheers and best regards TOMCAT
I can vouch for series x/overs as I have used them in the past and if you do you will more than likely come up with a system that will work first time rather than fumbling around in the dark trying to find an acceptable section network that will work and sound good too my suggestion is:
0.45 mh
.
.
4.7 uf
and of course the ballancing resistor you'll know what I'm talking about once you visit the above site..... cheers and best regards
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