I've starred at it all morning and afternoon, that easy error isnt materializing and I am about to decide the transformers got buggered, but I dont see how
really. but there are four primary wires and 4 secondary wires per transformer. They are hooked to a terminal block, only right now! There is only so much to stare at! I think I will "unstack" the middle connection between green and blue, just straight out. May seem silly, but if they are buggered that way, then the primary wires must have been damaged I guess. Or, maybe only one got damaged, but hooked together they both get hot. One doesnt seem hotter than the other, but they shouldnt be anywhere near this, especially with no load.
Russellc
really. but there are four primary wires and 4 secondary wires per transformer. They are hooked to a terminal block, only right now! There is only so much to stare at! I think I will "unstack" the middle connection between green and blue, just straight out. May seem silly, but if they are buggered that way, then the primary wires must have been damaged I guess. Or, maybe only one got damaged, but hooked together they both get hot. One doesnt seem hotter than the other, but they shouldnt be anywhere near this, especially with no load.
Russellc
Even if I connected the secondaries willy nilly, I don't think I could replicate this without shorting at the primaries? I can't see how mixing up secondary output leads would cause this. I'm thinking the primaries got damaged in the meantime, like when the previously mentioned mishap.
All I know for sure is they worked previously, commented back then, before it hibernated for a bit. I also know that hooked up to only a power cord and Variac, it gets hot around 80-90 volts. (120 wall voltage)
This is with the secondaries screwed down to a 6 section terminal block. Three for each side, one blue on first terminal, one blue combined with one green on second terminal, then single green secondary on third terminal. Repeat for other half with remaining transformer's secondaries in the same manner in the three remaining terminals.
There is nothing hooked to the opposite side, which will lead around edge of case to power supply, but not yet. Successful testing was back before "hibernation period" and was out of case.
I can just stare at cord, inlet, transformers primary and secondary wires hooked to a terminal block. There isn't even anything hooked to it to be a problem.
Albert Einstein was said to have noted, "The Simplist answer is usually right" so I am ordering new transformers. If that doesn't do it, I'm moving to a home for the befuddled.
Assuming the secondaries we're ALL mis marked, (which I am sure they are not, or it wouldn't have worked earlier) or I went color blind on green and blue so they look opposite, is there any mix up that could cause this?
Only difference between then and now is: time went by, "incident" falling to floor. The primaries we're attached to a terminal block, all red wires together, all black wires together. The terminal block was not yet bolted to floor, not were transformers. Box shifted and tilted up, caught box but transformers spilled over. The primaries and their terminal blocks snagged on something in case and primaries had a tug, then came loose. I figure this caused the damage.
Russellc
Really? So it is possible to replicate by mixing up primaries? then I'm still in boat despite not knowing why!
I guess Enstein was still right, Simplist answer is I messed up.
Russellc
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Maybe the color coding got mixed in a batch? I can only speculate. Many people used Antek in this thread and were happy.
Oh btw the method I used to sort primary wires was like this:
using continuity buzzer, found the blue and green that buzzed and made two groups, a blue and green that buzzed with each other, then took a green from one and paired it with the green from the other group. That made the center connection on terminal block.
Which wire should I alter? I assume you mean try the remaining pair as a match? Or some other way? I can do that, I have ring soldered to the lead ends.
Of all the things I have built, I have never had this sort of trouble at this early stage. I will play with attachment of secondaries and hold off a minute on ordering new transformers.
Thanks,
Russellc
using continuity buzzer, found the blue and green that buzzed and made two groups, a blue and green that buzzed with each other, then took a green from one and paired it with the green from the other group. That made the center connection on terminal block.
Which wire should I alter? I assume you mean try the remaining pair as a match? Or some other way? I can do that, I have ring soldered to the lead ends.
Of all the things I have built, I have never had this sort of trouble at this early stage. I will play with attachment of secondaries and hold off a minute on ordering new transformers.
Thanks,
Russellc
I suggest you email Antek on what it maybe happens and on how to wire correctly although it looks obvious. Me I normally measure unloaded AC voltages to verify the configuration than buzzing it out. Series mode should not be able to react by creating over-current anyway.
I have used a ton of Antek in poweramps preamps, phono amps, etc. I have only had one transformer in all these years fail. It was flaky from the start, they replaced it. And this was after considerable use too. Another didn't have a primary connected which they also replaced. I bought them for this project as well as the phono pre, which is dynamite, thxk Salas!!!!
Reasonable price and great customer service keeps me coming back! In this case if it is the transformer, I will eat that and get two more. I don't think they anticipated me flying it by the primaries.
Hopefully it's just the anti phase thing. Us there a method utilizing continuity to pair them up?
Russellc
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That's what I was doing when I discovered this. I was just going to verify voltages and then run lines to power supply. But no. I'm pretty sure I've damaged the primaries. They worked before. Too many others have used this transformer, I've used a bunch (including this one) trouble free.
Can this anti phase wiring create these symptoms? It got really hot really quickly. Seems like a direct short. Like my other builds, these transformers are bolted to floor pan, one of those perforated steel inner pans, chassis is from Diystore. Top of chassis is off, so is bottom of chassis.
I'm thinking damaged my primaries. I've never spent this long looking at something this simple!
A green should be mated with a blue for center tap is what I see in that model's datasheet
Yes, no matter if in primary or secondary side when you parallel windings, if their phases cancel out it behaves like a short
Holy what I don't know about electronics batman part 2.
Took transformers out and looked them over. All wiring looks totally normal with no signs of obvious damage. Hooked primarys up to terminal block, cord and plug, into variac. The secondary wires I laid out straight to another terminal block, no blue green mix, just straight out for measuring. Fired up, 40 volts, cold, 70 volts, cold, 100 volts and wait a little longer, still cold. 120, still cold. Well, with no load they ought to be cold.
I measured secondary wires and got all sorts of weirdness, then switched meter to DC....secondary wires still measuring oddly. Then I got an idea.
Then I hooked them back up, but not bolted to chassis, just sitting up on end. I traded on one transformer side, the two green leads positions, and same on other end, I think, or maybe it was the two blue leads. Fired up, 40v, 70v, 100v, 120v still transformer remains cold. Ok.
Now to measure secondary with blue green mix combo to see if voltages are correct. Referenced to ground, the two three positions measure thusly"
first side, Terminal 1 (green single wire) 30.3 vac
Terminal 2 (blue/green wires) 14,5 vac
Terminal 3 (single blue wire ) 1.3 vac
second side, Term 1 (single green wire) 1.6 vac
Term 2 (blue/green wire )14.3 vac
Term 3 (single blue wire ) 30.5 vac
At least they are consistent and transformers remain cool. How do these voltages look straight out of transformer secondaries?
Maybe these transformers are just fine. If so, I will proceed to wiring to power supply. I didnt know about the lesser voltages at the other positions.
Russellc
Took transformers out and looked them over. All wiring looks totally normal with no signs of obvious damage. Hooked primarys up to terminal block, cord and plug, into variac. The secondary wires I laid out straight to another terminal block, no blue green mix, just straight out for measuring. Fired up, 40 volts, cold, 70 volts, cold, 100 volts and wait a little longer, still cold. 120, still cold. Well, with no load they ought to be cold.
I measured secondary wires and got all sorts of weirdness, then switched meter to DC....secondary wires still measuring oddly. Then I got an idea.
Then I hooked them back up, but not bolted to chassis, just sitting up on end. I traded on one transformer side, the two green leads positions, and same on other end, I think, or maybe it was the two blue leads. Fired up, 40v, 70v, 100v, 120v still transformer remains cold. Ok.
Now to measure secondary with blue green mix combo to see if voltages are correct. Referenced to ground, the two three positions measure thusly"
first side, Terminal 1 (green single wire) 30.3 vac
Terminal 2 (blue/green wires) 14,5 vac
Terminal 3 (single blue wire ) 1.3 vac
second side, Term 1 (single green wire) 1.6 vac
Term 2 (blue/green wire )14.3 vac
Term 3 (single blue wire ) 30.5 vac
At least they are consistent and transformers remain cool. How do these voltages look straight out of transformer secondaries?
Maybe these transformers are just fine. If so, I will proceed to wiring to power supply. I didnt know about the lesser voltages at the other positions.
Russellc
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One of the single wires is about 1/2, wasnt sure about other single wire a just over a volt or so. Perhaps I am not measuring the best way. I'm used to the Pass power supply that uses separate + and - sides, wasn't sure so just used chassis ground as a reference? Is the 1.3 to 1.6 on the other single wire correct? Again, this is measuring from chassis ground to that single wire, maybe not best way....
Russellc