Hi Chris,
mmmm, amazing what youy can track on the net huh? But its morrin... not morrison... but not to worry I've been called worse!
Right..... I promise I will give you an answer... in detail. BUT I don't want to do it yet because these speakers are essentially not finished yet. I have yet to be sure I have the right amount of damping in there, the drivers fully run in (<100hrs now) and tonight I made some phase plugs. So I will answer that, but its not fair or useful just to do it yet. I can say they aren't embarassed by the quads though.
********************
I was going to leave this for another while, but got looking at it tonight and said what the hell, I'll give it a go. So it all actually went very smoothly (almost afriad to say that!). And here is the result:
A question though: I used 3 x countersunk M4 bolts and the plugs are held firmly - but I can pull them off. Is this OK or should I have used bigger bolts?
Listening to follow!
Fran
mmmm, amazing what youy can track on the net huh? But its morrin... not morrison... but not to worry I've been called worse!
Right..... I promise I will give you an answer... in detail. BUT I don't want to do it yet because these speakers are essentially not finished yet. I have yet to be sure I have the right amount of damping in there, the drivers fully run in (<100hrs now) and tonight I made some phase plugs. So I will answer that, but its not fair or useful just to do it yet. I can say they aren't embarassed by the quads though.
********************
I was going to leave this for another while, but got looking at it tonight and said what the hell, I'll give it a go. So it all actually went very smoothly (almost afriad to say that!). And here is the result:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
A question though: I used 3 x countersunk M4 bolts and the plugs are held firmly - but I can pull them off. Is this OK or should I have used bigger bolts?
Listening to follow!
Fran
So I've had a good listen now with the plugs in place and at the start I was not impressed. After listening for a while, I decided that they actually had taken a step backwards.... ie sounded very much like before I added some wadding. So I added some more (so now I have all the interior of the chamber covered with one layer) and things have improved greatly. I think the treble might be a little harder now than it was but its slight.
So while everything is back alright now, I'm probably only where I was before I added the phase plugs. However, I need to go back now and position the speakers properly again and I feel theres some room for improvement there.
I don't want to sound like I'm crapping on the phase plugs. In fact, I think that they will turn out to be a strong improvement, but just the speakers need another little bit of fettling after doing it.
Is this a common experience?
Fran
So while everything is back alright now, I'm probably only where I was before I added the phase plugs. However, I need to go back now and position the speakers properly again and I feel theres some room for improvement there.
I don't want to sound like I'm crapping on the phase plugs. In fact, I think that they will turn out to be a strong improvement, but just the speakers need another little bit of fettling after doing it.
Is this a common experience?
Fran
About the opposite of most people who run the P10 plugs. You tend to get fewer phase related issues (surprise) caused by reflections, a reduction in the cavity resonance (around 3.5KHz) and a general smoothing out of the HF. That's why I consider them mandatory on all the whizzer-coned FExx6E units. Still, as ever, YMMV. As for the cabinets themselves, double-horns generally are very placement sensitive, in that they make even small changes in location abundently clear, so you'll probably want to spend some time adjusting things to suit.
In case it is useful to someone, here's a slight variation on the standard
cutting plan -
1) Added dimension notations
2) Moved alternate deflectors to a different sheet, so they can be made
from different material (MDF etc) if so desired. Also, this sheet can be
a smaller 6x3" one.
3) Fran pointed out there may be a small gap in the back piece if
the sheet is 18mm thick. To eliminate this, I made the back piece full-length (72")
and reduced the top/bottom pieces accordingly.
cutting plan -
1) Added dimension notations
2) Moved alternate deflectors to a different sheet, so they can be made
from different material (MDF etc) if so desired. Also, this sheet can be
a smaller 6x3" one.
3) Fran pointed out there may be a small gap in the back piece if
the sheet is 18mm thick. To eliminate this, I made the back piece full-length (72")
and reduced the top/bottom pieces accordingly.
Attachments
Different Materials
Hello. I'm new to forums but have enjoyed pouring over the many posts about the Sachiko enclosures and have decided on constructing a pair myself. This will be my first speaker project and have a quick question.
Does using pine plywood on the internals and birch ply for the sides, bottom, top, back and baffle work differently than using all birch?
Thanks for any advice.
Hello. I'm new to forums but have enjoyed pouring over the many posts about the Sachiko enclosures and have decided on constructing a pair myself. This will be my first speaker project and have a quick question.
Does using pine plywood on the internals and birch ply for the sides, bottom, top, back and baffle work differently than using all birch?
Thanks for any advice.
Gusgus111 - you are pretty much better off just going with baltic birch for the whole thing - the sides, back and baffle take up most of the sheets anyway. If you've already paid for 2 sheets - you might as well go the whole hog rather than risk ruining it. My 2c
********************************
Well another update!
After repositioning the speakers etc the sound was back on track. So then i got to thinking about damping on the frame of the FE206e - My planet10 FE127E have this done. I thought, why not try it and see if it makes a difference. If its horrible, I can always take the stuff off.
So I had some weatherproof sealant here, its that kinda self adhesive bitumen based stuff - tarry on one side and silvered on the other. Heavy enough and also serves well as damping. just can't remember the trade name right now....
Anyway, so I cut a load of little thin strips and filled in the gap between the magnet and basket and then also added some more strips around the legs of the basket, and then more all around the magnet.
Result: not a night and day difference, but there seems to be a tightening up of bass - maybe better expressed as it being a bit faster and a little less boom (not that there was much of that anyway). But now having done that, the phase plugs, adjusting the damping in the chamber and some time spent positioning the speakers, these are now a different proposition completely. Bass is tight as a ducks ****. Soundstage is pinpoint, although doesn't extend L to R past the speakers. Depth in huge. Treble is clear, clean with no fizz or spit. Ella sounds clear and clean with no sibilance. Now I have to give it the ultimate test for that - some nina!
I have yet to test on more complex music and harder rock but what I'm hearing so far is very positive. I also want to have a listen with my EL84 amp (and maybe other amps as well).
*****************************
I'm thinking of putting in some grilles at the mouth - I have some fairly lightweight frames made and I have some speaker cloth (from an old lowther speaker). Is this a major no-no?
then on to painting!
Fran
EDIT: its called flashbond
********************************
Well another update!
After repositioning the speakers etc the sound was back on track. So then i got to thinking about damping on the frame of the FE206e - My planet10 FE127E have this done. I thought, why not try it and see if it makes a difference. If its horrible, I can always take the stuff off.
So I had some weatherproof sealant here, its that kinda self adhesive bitumen based stuff - tarry on one side and silvered on the other. Heavy enough and also serves well as damping. just can't remember the trade name right now....
Anyway, so I cut a load of little thin strips and filled in the gap between the magnet and basket and then also added some more strips around the legs of the basket, and then more all around the magnet.
Result: not a night and day difference, but there seems to be a tightening up of bass - maybe better expressed as it being a bit faster and a little less boom (not that there was much of that anyway). But now having done that, the phase plugs, adjusting the damping in the chamber and some time spent positioning the speakers, these are now a different proposition completely. Bass is tight as a ducks ****. Soundstage is pinpoint, although doesn't extend L to R past the speakers. Depth in huge. Treble is clear, clean with no fizz or spit. Ella sounds clear and clean with no sibilance. Now I have to give it the ultimate test for that - some nina!
I have yet to test on more complex music and harder rock but what I'm hearing so far is very positive. I also want to have a listen with my EL84 amp (and maybe other amps as well).
*****************************
I'm thinking of putting in some grilles at the mouth - I have some fairly lightweight frames made and I have some speaker cloth (from an old lowther speaker). Is this a major no-no?
then on to painting!
Fran
EDIT: its called flashbond
Hi all,
my first post in this great forum
I have a pair of refurbished stacked Quad ESLs run with an OTL amp + DIY dipole subwoofers. They sound marvellous, but I got to have a new project started...
I don't have experience on fullrange horn speakers, but somehow Sachikos attract to build them.
Fran, are you already set up to give us a comparison between Quads and Sachikos?
my first post in this great forum
I have a pair of refurbished stacked Quad ESLs run with an OTL amp + DIY dipole subwoofers. They sound marvellous, but I got to have a new project started...
I don't have experience on fullrange horn speakers, but somehow Sachikos attract to build them.
Fran, are you already set up to give us a comparison between Quads and Sachikos?
auroraB - thanks for that, I've sent them a mail asking do they ahve stock.
Jallu: wait just a few more days, the sachikos are outside in the workshop right now getting painted. I'm having a bunch or friends over in a few days and will have a number of amps etc etc. So I'll know much better after that.
I just want to be fair to all. But, the sachikos do sound good, very different to the quads (but having had stacked quads you'll be used to a much bigger sound) but still very good. If you're using stacked quads WAF obviously isn;t a factor (!) but just to warn you, these speakers are BIG. tall and deep. Also be aware that they need to be tuned to the room - so that will take a little time.
I'd say, start looking for the parts and you can't lose.
Fran
Jallu: wait just a few more days, the sachikos are outside in the workshop right now getting painted. I'm having a bunch or friends over in a few days and will have a number of amps etc etc. So I'll know much better after that.
I just want to be fair to all. But, the sachikos do sound good, very different to the quads (but having had stacked quads you'll be used to a much bigger sound) but still very good. If you're using stacked quads WAF obviously isn;t a factor (!) but just to warn you, these speakers are BIG. tall and deep. Also be aware that they need to be tuned to the room - so that will take a little time.
I'd say, start looking for the parts and you can't lose.
Fran
Fran,
you are right, sound of stacked Quads is bigger and more dynamic than single Quads. I would survive well without subs, 95% of music I listen to they don't give anything extra.
WAF is a factor, because my wife likes the sound of Quads so much She thinks I'm crazy to even think replacing Quads with box speakers... maybe I am, but one of the reasons I would like to test full range Sachiko is to be able to use low powered SE amplification which is impossible with Quads.
you are right, sound of stacked Quads is bigger and more dynamic than single Quads. I would survive well without subs, 95% of music I listen to they don't give anything extra.
WAF is a factor, because my wife likes the sound of Quads so much
She thinks I'm crazy to even think replacing Quads with box speakers... maybe I am, but one of the reasons I would like to test full range Sachiko is to be able to use low powered SE amplification which is impossible with Quads.Photo of the damping I put on the drivers.
I know its not neat.....
Fran
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I know its not neat.....
Fran
Sachiko binding posts
I have two (probably simple) questions:
Where is it alright (or not alright) to place the binding posts on the back of the Sachiko enclosure?
Does the internal wire need to be secured in some way so it doesn't vibrate/rub against the edge of the plates and lose its insulation?
Thanks for the advice and patience, I'm still learning how speaker building works.
Gus
I have two (probably simple) questions:
Where is it alright (or not alright) to place the binding posts on the back of the Sachiko enclosure?
Does the internal wire need to be secured in some way so it doesn't vibrate/rub against the edge of the plates and lose its insulation?
Thanks for the advice and patience, I'm still learning how speaker building works.
Gus
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.