Well, the shop seems to have done a good job and all panels seem to be accurately cut. I hope to start some gluing up tonight!!
Dave - I'm sure this has been asked before but I can't remember seeing it: What is the preferred way of butting up the support to the back of the driver? Is it wood to driver direct, or is it better to have something else in there between the 2 (and if so what?)
Fran
Dave - I'm sure this has been asked before but I can't remember seeing it: What is the preferred way of butting up the support to the back of the driver? Is it wood to driver direct, or is it better to have something else in there between the 2 (and if so what?)
Fran
Many thanks Dave - thats what I'll do.
In the meantime I started gluing up tonight. So I glued a few of the internal panels together to make things a bit easier later on.
I decided to use some screws to help out with the clamping - I just don't have enough clamps to make the speakers in a reasonable time frame otherwise.
So heres a couple of pics, they speak from themselves.
I have a nice even glue line along each piece so I'm hoping that works out OK.
Maybe tomorrow night I will start on one of the main sides. I think what I'll do there is glue together the back, top, bottom, deflectors and one side which will give me a solid framework and then when thats set, glue in the internal pieces (?) and front baffle. Lastly then I'll glue on the other side.
Does that sound like an OK plan to you guys?
Fran
In the meantime I started gluing up tonight. So I glued a few of the internal panels together to make things a bit easier later on.
I decided to use some screws to help out with the clamping - I just don't have enough clamps to make the speakers in a reasonable time frame otherwise.
So heres a couple of pics, they speak from themselves.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I have a nice even glue line along each piece so I'm hoping that works out OK.
Maybe tomorrow night I will start on one of the main sides. I think what I'll do there is glue together the back, top, bottom, deflectors and one side which will give me a solid framework and then when thats set, glue in the internal pieces (?) and front baffle. Lastly then I'll glue on the other side.
Does that sound like an OK plan to you guys?
Fran
More pics!
I started the glue-up in earnest tonight. I have a severe shortage of big clamps so I had to figure some way of gluing securely so in the end the only way I reckoned I could do it was by using screws. It might not be the purists way, but it will give me a better glue joint than otherwise. The plan here is to screw and glue the top, bottom, back, baffle and internal panels to one side panel, and then after all that sets up, fit the driver and cut panel A to suit.
Then fit the other side panel after checking for seal. Use weights to apply pressure for the glue.
So here is the top, bottom and back glued in place along with the deflectors:
Then I added the baffle and panels attached to it:
Internal view of same:
Then I added some more internal panels, checking that the horn path measurements are correct all the time:
And this one is as far as I got tonight:
This thing is getting very heavy for manhandling on your own! So next up now is to fit the drivers temporarily and cut panel A to suit, then screw and glue in panels A, B and D as one assembly. Lastly then fit the other side.
So now a question for you gurus! Before I stick the other side onto this and close it all up, is there any lining I should put on the internal panels? The panels all meet very tightly, but should I run some caulking along the seams before finishing assembly?
Fran
I started the glue-up in earnest tonight. I have a severe shortage of big clamps so I had to figure some way of gluing securely so in the end the only way I reckoned I could do it was by using screws. It might not be the purists way, but it will give me a better glue joint than otherwise. The plan here is to screw and glue the top, bottom, back, baffle and internal panels to one side panel, and then after all that sets up, fit the driver and cut panel A to suit.
Then fit the other side panel after checking for seal. Use weights to apply pressure for the glue.
So here is the top, bottom and back glued in place along with the deflectors:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Then I added the baffle and panels attached to it:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Internal view of same:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Then I added some more internal panels, checking that the horn path measurements are correct all the time:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
And this one is as far as I got tonight:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
This thing is getting very heavy for manhandling on your own! So next up now is to fit the drivers temporarily and cut panel A to suit, then screw and glue in panels A, B and D as one assembly. Lastly then fit the other side.
So now a question for you gurus! Before I stick the other side onto this and close it all up, is there any lining I should put on the internal panels? The panels all meet very tightly, but should I run some caulking along the seams before finishing assembly?
Fran
Aaaarghh!
I've run into a problem!
I have a gap between the 2 centre panels (panel A) of 74mm instead of 64mm!
All the other measurements are ok, but these 2 panels are too far apart.
Scottmoose/Dave:
Will I get away with this or do I need to glue in a panel to fix it?
If I do need to fix it, is it ok to just glue in one 9mm (ie 3/8") piece to one of the "A" panels, or would I need to keep the symmetry and glue 5mm to each side? (Somehow I know what you are going to tell me
).
Should I now go and make the other speaker in the same way so that they match, or should I make it the correct way?
****************************
As to why it happened.... well I think I know and its down to my method of construction and using 18mm ply instead of 19mm. I started out working from each end towards the middle (didn't put much thought into it, just was easier that way) and as I count inwards I have 5 sheets of ply = 5mm short each side.
At least thats what I think I did - it must be that because all the other measurements are bang on.
If you have any ideas for a fix, I would indeed be most grateful!
Feel like a proper gobshite now!
Fran
I've run into a problem!
I have a gap between the 2 centre panels (panel A) of 74mm instead of 64mm!
All the other measurements are ok, but these 2 panels are too far apart.
Scottmoose/Dave:
Will I get away with this or do I need to glue in a panel to fix it?
If I do need to fix it, is it ok to just glue in one 9mm (ie 3/8") piece to one of the "A" panels, or would I need to keep the symmetry and glue 5mm to each side? (Somehow I know what you are going to tell me
).Should I now go and make the other speaker in the same way so that they match, or should I make it the correct way?
****************************
As to why it happened.... well I think I know and its down to my method of construction and using 18mm ply instead of 19mm. I started out working from each end towards the middle (didn't put much thought into it, just was easier that way) and as I count inwards I have 5 sheets of ply = 5mm short each side.
At least thats what I think I did - it must be that because all the other measurements are bang on.
If you have any ideas for a fix, I would indeed be most grateful!
Feel like a proper gobshite now!
Fran
Fran,
Regarding your concerns with gaps when gluing up.
I used polyurethane construction adhesive for the sides of my Sachikos. This is a thick glue applied like caulk and expands while curing, filling up any voids or gaps between the joints.
It takes longer to set than carpenters white or yellow PVA glue, but cure time can be sped up by dampening the joints with water before applying the adhesive.
TT
Regarding your concerns with gaps when gluing up.
I used polyurethane construction adhesive for the sides of my Sachikos. This is a thick glue applied like caulk and expands while curing, filling up any voids or gaps between the joints.
It takes longer to set than carpenters white or yellow PVA glue, but cure time can be sped up by dampening the joints with water before applying the adhesive.
TT
Heres how I added in that extra layer of ply in the middle to account for the extra gap (18mm vs 19mm)
I decided to keep both speakers the same in the end - seemed sensible to match them to each other. At least they'll be consistent if nothing else.
So Scottmoose or Dave (or anyone else): Would it be better to do it as I have above and make up the extra with a shim of ply, or would you be better starting from the middle (ie with the 64mm measurement) and then working outwards? It seems to me that my way is closer to the original measurements?
So I have both horns glued up now but with the side off, no wedge or speaker terminals in yet. I will add some caulking as well to the seams even though the joints look tight and clean. At least it will be one thing I can rule out later
I don't have gaskets for the drivers. What is a good material to use for this?
Fran
EDIT: Tentoes (how are your 10fingers?) I have used the polyurethane before and its my preferred glue, but its really hard to find over here. A friend of mine used to bring in a case every now and then, but he hasn;t had any in a long time. The only one I can get is gorilla glue brand but its wildly expensive, about $20 for a very small bottle - I'd need about 10 or 15 of them for this build! Titebond is the one I always used.
AFAIK the guys told me before that titebond wouldn't ship this stuff in winter because it would go off or something. Can't remember the story exactly, but that was the reason given or something similar.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I decided to keep both speakers the same in the end - seemed sensible to match them to each other. At least they'll be consistent if nothing else.
So Scottmoose or Dave (or anyone else): Would it be better to do it as I have above and make up the extra with a shim of ply, or would you be better starting from the middle (ie with the 64mm measurement) and then working outwards? It seems to me that my way is closer to the original measurements?
So I have both horns glued up now but with the side off, no wedge or speaker terminals in yet. I will add some caulking as well to the seams even though the joints look tight and clean. At least it will be one thing I can rule out later
I don't have gaskets for the drivers. What is a good material to use for this?
Fran
EDIT: Tentoes (how are your 10fingers?) I have used the polyurethane before and its my preferred glue, but its really hard to find over here. A friend of mine used to bring in a case every now and then, but he hasn;t had any in a long time. The only one I can get is gorilla glue brand but its wildly expensive, about $20 for a very small bottle - I'd need about 10 or 15 of them for this build! Titebond is the one I always used.
AFAIK the guys told me before that titebond wouldn't ship this stuff in winter because it would go off or something. Can't remember the story exactly, but that was the reason given or something similar.
Yes, best to keep them the same.
6 of 1 half a dozen of the other probably. My inclination would be to maintain the centre of each piece as per the original and spread out the 5 mm discrepency as opposed to adding it right at the start. but i bet there isn't a whole lot of difference -- you get more difference from the driver-to-driver variances.
For some strange reason neither FE206e or FE166e come with decent gaskets. Use neoprene weather stripping (adhesive on 1-side). (aka draugh exclusion tape)
dave
woodturner-fran said:
I still had all 10 at last count. I have a healthy respect for the table saw.
Gorilla Glue is still pricey on this side of the other pond. I haven't used it, but it seems to have a viscosity similar to white PVA glue. The construction grade polyurethane adhesive I use is cheap and sticks to everything. I used less than one tube per enclosure.
TT
In Canada we can get Elmer's 'Ultimate' Glue which is similar to GorillaGlue- not cheap, but under $10 (Cdn) for 236mL. Works well, but is slippery stuff- no 'tack' like yellow glue- and you need to wear gloves...possible skin irritant and difficult to get off your skin as well. BTW, folks refer to polyurethane glue as 'gap-filling' - it isn't, except for perhaps controlling air leakage. You need to use epoxy if you need strength across gaps- not usually a factor in speaker boxes.woodturner-fran said:
Titebond doesn't take well to freezing, so possibly that's the problem with winter shipping.
Cheers
John
Just thought of something here that might be of use in the future for those using 18mm ply.
There are 2 areas where you need to account for it:
1. is as I have said above where you end up with 10mm extra in the centre (see above)
2. Watch the back panels - they are made to fit inside the sides and top/bottom - lose 1mm each end and you are 2mm out. Now you can get away with it because the deflectors cover it, but its probably something to watch out for.
Fran
There are 2 areas where you need to account for it:
1. is as I have said above where you end up with 10mm extra in the centre (see above)
2. Watch the back panels - they are made to fit inside the sides and top/bottom - lose 1mm each end and you are 2mm out. Now you can get away with it because the deflectors cover it, but its probably something to watch out for.
Fran
So things proceeded on pretty nicely tonight. I glued up the second horn last night - here they are as a pair:
As you can see I opted for the angled deflector rather than the "steps" but I decided to add in some shot blast material for some extra weight (whether thats right or wrong?)
And then I only had to glue on the sides:
So woohooo!! They are glued up at last!!!! The temptation was very strong to stick the drivers in and see..... but I managed to resist. I'll let the glue dry first though. I have to scrounge some draught excluder somewhere to act as a gasket too. What about filling? I suppose the thing to do is listen first and probably I need to let the drivers run for a couple of days (they were very low hour 2nd hand but have done nothing now for a year or more).
Apart from the visual traces - the screw and glue method worked really well. Thats one thing I'm really happy about. If they sound good I'll be painting them anyway so the screwholes don't matter. I feel I did pretty well on all the panels and the actual construction (apart from the 18mm thing - but even that was sorted ok). So I'm really hoping now that they sound good
I am prepared for doing things like phase plugs, enabling, BSC, stuffing but I just hope they sound ok (pre-fire-up jitters anyone?)
Fran
PS: don't comment now and tell that something is wrong inside the horn!
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
As you can see I opted for the angled deflector rather than the "steps" but I decided to add in some shot blast material for some extra weight (whether thats right or wrong?)
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
And then I only had to glue on the sides:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
So woohooo!! They are glued up at last!!!! The temptation was very strong to stick the drivers in and see..... but I managed to resist. I'll let the glue dry first though. I have to scrounge some draught excluder somewhere to act as a gasket too. What about filling? I suppose the thing to do is listen first and probably I need to let the drivers run for a couple of days (they were very low hour 2nd hand but have done nothing now for a year or more).
Apart from the visual traces - the screw and glue method worked really well. Thats one thing I'm really happy about. If they sound good I'll be painting them anyway so the screwholes don't matter. I feel I did pretty well on all the panels and the actual construction (apart from the 18mm thing - but even that was sorted ok). So I'm really hoping now that they sound good
I am prepared for doing things like phase plugs, enabling, BSC, stuffing but I just hope they sound ok (pre-fire-up jitters anyone?)
Fran
PS: don't comment now and tell that something is wrong inside the horn!
I'm not planning on doing it - in fact I just hope they sound good without any of that stuff. I suppose they're the list of things that I wouldn;t be dissappointed to have to do....if you know what I mean. I don't even know if thats appropriate for horns!
Anyway that sentence was premature as I haven't even listened to them yet - just was buzzin' last night after gluing them up and was wondering how they would sound after the investment of T&M so far is all
I'll know more later!
Anyway that sentence was premature as I haven't even listened to them yet - just was buzzin' last night after gluing them up and was wondering how they would sound after the investment of T&M so far is all
I'll know more later!
Step loss compensation is predicated on the assumption that you're not doing anything else to compensate for any losses incured -in the case of Sachiko, the cabinet is self-correcting. Phase plugs are generally beneficial (practically mandatory in my book) on the whizzer cone Fostex drivers, particularly the FExx6E series units. Worth doing. As for the sound, you might find them a bit of a shock to the system if you haven't heard anything like them before.
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