"was" would be the operative word here - unfortunately P13WH is now out of production - it was certainly a joy to work with as it behaved very benignly at both ends of its range.
At the risk of blasphemy - is the reverence with which this design is blessed really that deserved? I've heard three examples of it in my 40+yrs of serious listening - one a Rogers back in the mid 80s, and more recently something along the lines of the GINI -one displayed at a VSAC show ( 2003? ) by Two Bald Guys, and a house branded version marketed by Grant Fidelity about 6 or 7 years later. To be completely honest, compared to many other commercial products and DIY projects approx the same form factor, they were all nice enough, but nothing transcendental.
Thanks for posting mtc. Thats great you got yours done, I remember back when you purchased them. Would love to see how they turned out hint hint
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....down by the river.
Their website address doesn't connect to anything, so we'll assume the GINI has escaped.
There seems to be a lot of people happy with "nice enough".
jeff
I'm beyond happy. Its like having a hd-650 but in my room. I have a decent sub with it. I see why it won many events, they really sound fun, musical, clear. They are really transparent, detailed good soundstage, good tone, good highs. Definitely a hi end speaker that I will enjoy fr a long time I feel. You really dont think about the sound or if you do, its just to be amazed and with a sense of satisfaction!Thanks for posting mtc. Thats great you got yours done, I remember back when you purchased them. Would love to see how they turned out hint hint
I have had a couple of goosbumps moment already. After all my attempts with fullrange, I am really more happy with a two way, its at a totally other level of transparency and definition ime.
Highly recommended.
I have not heard a lot of hifi gear, but the continuums shares many quality that blew me away after listening to the wilson audio cubs. With a sub, you have plenty of bass for a average room and more importantly, clean undistorted well defined bass.
I think you can see that im happy!
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ineed, i have heard a ls3 pair and was not impressed.
Continuum are much better
Continuum are much better
Interesting stuff
To correct some misconceptionsof some earlier posts. Falcon Acoustics now make exact reproductions of the B110 & T27. The Gini is a part of a whole litany of speakers
Including the Kef LS50 cashing in on the LS35A phenomena. But unlike the Kef the Gini unless they have corrected it since the StereoMojo speaker shootout a linear distortion issue Subjectively benign for some but hardly "monitor"
materal.
I have owned 2 sets of speakers running B110s A Krix DN 12 which was an Aussie Kef Concerto clone. Virtually the same cabinet but way better cross overThan the Kef (no resistors, mill spec pcb done at the Salsbury weapons
research base & all air Core inductors with half the Resistance of the originals.)
I modernized it with high quality polypropylene caps, back radiused the mids. Stuck a neodymium backing magnet on the bass & mid & rewired. There was
something right a about the sound. Always regret selling them. I also had in
possession 2 pairs of Linn Isobariks one Kef equipped, the other modded with the
Japanese Monacor replacement mid for the ceramic tweeter version. Having both back to back mated witb a Sudgen C51 P51 mint combo that I picked up at a junk shop for $40 bucks was pure sonic bliss. The Monacor version that is. Made it painfully obvious why Linn made the changes. The B110 still imaged slightly better. I also had some TS spec tested. They were still within factory spec after over 30 years. Credit where credit is due. I also attempted a 4 speaker line array pairusing the 2 inch Chinese made Jordans. It was a disaster! 36Hz variance in Fs for a" Matched" set shouty harsh and generally horrible. I contacted Ted about it and the rights to those drivers were sold a week later. I returned the drivers to the dealer and waited for a refund. My requests were met with excuses that I started publshing on the web. I sent the dealer several pages i
of the preliminary links. Ihad my refund exactly 15 minutes later. Good to hear that Jordan is back on track and manufacturing in the UK with a tighter grip on QC . Cheers.
l
To correct some misconceptionsof some earlier posts. Falcon Acoustics now make exact reproductions of the B110 & T27. The Gini is a part of a whole litany of speakers
Including the Kef LS50 cashing in on the LS35A phenomena. But unlike the Kef the Gini unless they have corrected it since the StereoMojo speaker shootout a linear distortion issue Subjectively benign for some but hardly "monitor"
materal.
I have owned 2 sets of speakers running B110s A Krix DN 12 which was an Aussie Kef Concerto clone. Virtually the same cabinet but way better cross overThan the Kef (no resistors, mill spec pcb done at the Salsbury weapons
research base & all air Core inductors with half the Resistance of the originals.)
I modernized it with high quality polypropylene caps, back radiused the mids. Stuck a neodymium backing magnet on the bass & mid & rewired. There was
something right a about the sound. Always regret selling them. I also had in
possession 2 pairs of Linn Isobariks one Kef equipped, the other modded with the
Japanese Monacor replacement mid for the ceramic tweeter version. Having both back to back mated witb a Sudgen C51 P51 mint combo that I picked up at a junk shop for $40 bucks was pure sonic bliss. The Monacor version that is. Made it painfully obvious why Linn made the changes. The B110 still imaged slightly better. I also had some TS spec tested. They were still within factory spec after over 30 years. Credit where credit is due. I also attempted a 4 speaker line array pairusing the 2 inch Chinese made Jordans. It was a disaster! 36Hz variance in Fs for a" Matched" set shouty harsh and generally horrible. I contacted Ted about it and the rights to those drivers were sold a week later. I returned the drivers to the dealer and waited for a refund. My requests were met with excuses that I started publshing on the web. I sent the dealer several pages i
of the preliminary links. Ihad my refund exactly 15 minutes later. Good to hear that Jordan is back on track and manufacturing in the UK with a tighter grip on QC . Cheers.
l
Well, there were B110s and B110s.... The only one available for retail was an SP1003, if I remember correctly. Some development work was done late in the life, and the B110s found in the Reference 101s were SP1054 (not sure, and I'm not taking mine apart tonight). They're much better controlled, and I'm still quite happy with the results. Yes, sub needed.
Interesting stuff
To correct some misconceptionsof some earlier posts. Falcon Acoustics now make exact reproductions of the B110 & T27. The Gini is a part of a whole litany of speakers
Including the Kef LS50 cashing in on the LS35A phenomena. But unlike the Kef the Gini unless they have corrected it since the StereoMojo speaker shootout a linear distortion issue Subjectively benign for some but hardly "monitor"
materal.
I have owned 2 sets of speakers running B110s A Krix DN 12 which was an Aussie Kef Concerto clone. Virtually the same cabinet but way better cross overThan the Kef (no resistors, mill spec pcb done at the Salsbury weapons
research base & all air Core inductors with half the Resistance of the originals.)
I modernized it with high quality polypropylene caps, back radiused the mids. Stuck a neodymium backing magnet on the bass & mid & rewired. There was
something right a about the sound. Always regret selling them. I also had in
possession 2 pairs of Linn Isobariks one Kef equipped, the other modded with the
Japanese Monacor replacement mid for the ceramic tweeter version. Having both back to back mated witb a Sudgen C51 P51 mint combo that I picked up at a junk shop for $40 bucks was pure sonic bliss. The Monacor version that is. Made it painfully obvious why Linn made the changes. The B110 still imaged slightly better. I also had some TS spec tested. They were still within factory spec after over 30 years. Credit where credit is due. I also attempted a 4 speaker line array pairusing the 2 inch Chinese made Jordans. It was a disaster! 36Hz variance in Fs for a" Matched" set shouty harsh and generally horrible. I contacted Ted about it and the rights to those drivers were sold a week later. I returned the drivers to the dealer and waited for a refund. My requests were met with excuses that I started publshing on the web. I sent the dealer several pages i
of the preliminary links. Ihad my refund exactly 15 minutes later. Good to hear that Jordan is back on track and manufacturing in the UK with a tighter grip on QC . Cheers.
l
To correct some misconceptionsof some earlier posts. Falcon Acoustics now make exact reproductions of the B110 & T27. The Gini is a part of a whole litany of speakers
Including the Kef LS50 cashing in on the LS35A phenomena. But unlike the Kef the Gini unless they have corrected it since the StereoMojo speaker shootout a linear distortion issue Subjectively benign for some but hardly "monitor"
materal.
I have owned 2 sets of speakers running B110s A Krix DN 12 which was an Aussie Kef Concerto clone. Virtually the same cabinet but way better cross overThan the Kef (no resistors, mill spec pcb done at the Salsbury weapons
research base & all air Core inductors with half the Resistance of the originals.)
I modernized it with high quality polypropylene caps, back radiused the mids. Stuck a neodymium backing magnet on the bass & mid & rewired. There was
something right a about the sound. Always regret selling them. I also had in
possession 2 pairs of Linn Isobariks one Kef equipped, the other modded with the
Japanese Monacor replacement mid for the ceramic tweeter version. Having both back to back mated witb a Sudgen C51 P51 mint combo that I picked up at a junk shop for $40 bucks was pure sonic bliss. The Monacor version that is. Made it painfully obvious why Linn made the changes. The B110 still imaged slightly better. I also had some TS spec tested. They were still within factory spec after over 30 years. Credit where credit is due. I also attempted a 4 speaker line array pairusing the 2 inch Chinese made Jordans. It was a disaster! 36Hz variance in Fs for a" Matched" set shouty harsh and generally horrible. I contacted Ted about it and the rights to those drivers were sold a week later. I returned the drivers to the dealer and waited for a refund. My requests were met with excuses that I started publshing on the web. I sent the dealer several pages i
of the preliminary links. Ihad my refund exactly 15 minutes later. Good to hear that Jordan is back on track and manufacturing in the UK with a tighter grip on QC . Cheers.
l
The variations and difficulty in establishing quality control was one of the reasons Jordan and EAD parted company.
Jordan drivers are now made either by a small UK specialist (the Eikona 1) or Scan-speak (Eikona 2) and there is a tight control on quality.
http://www.ejjordan.co.uk/drivers
Back to the LS3/5a - I have never been a great fan but they were designed for a specific purpose. The BBC paper about it is worth reading if anyone is serious about building one.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/publications/rdreport_1976_29
New versions from Stirling Broadcast and others will have had to have been approved by the BBC to match their specifications. This is important so that individual units can be swapped out without changing sound balance in the studio. When I last visited the BBC, they were still in regular use in smaller monitoring areas. The newer models will have improved bass and power handling but otherwise a very similar balance to the originals.
As I mentioned, the one area which is still up to modern standards is the cabinet technique, which can be adapted to other sizes and designs. Indeed, Falcon themselves used to sell a LS3/5a clone in the 1980s which extended the cabinet to 7 litres to get more bass and an ideal Qts approaching 0.707.
Jordan drivers are now made either by a small UK specialist (the Eikona 1) or Scan-speak (Eikona 2) and there is a tight control on quality.
http://www.ejjordan.co.uk/drivers
Back to the LS3/5a - I have never been a great fan but they were designed for a specific purpose. The BBC paper about it is worth reading if anyone is serious about building one.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/publications/rdreport_1976_29
New versions from Stirling Broadcast and others will have had to have been approved by the BBC to match their specifications. This is important so that individual units can be swapped out without changing sound balance in the studio. When I last visited the BBC, they were still in regular use in smaller monitoring areas. The newer models will have improved bass and power handling but otherwise a very similar balance to the originals.
As I mentioned, the one area which is still up to modern standards is the cabinet technique, which can be adapted to other sizes and designs. Indeed, Falcon themselves used to sell a LS3/5a clone in the 1980s which extended the cabinet to 7 litres to get more bass and an ideal Qts approaching 0.707.
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So much to digest, a choice isn't proving to be nearly as cut and dry as I was thinking. I don't need or want exact replicas but some that closely resemble and sound good, have clean clear mid and upper reproduction and smooth natural flow, and closed boxes. These points are what interested me in the start. I also strongly like the studio reference sound. I loved late 70s british studio monitors I owned prior. Voicing was incredible and so life like through them, and strung instruments, acoustic pieces and that sort of thing. Good bass is nice but that isnt as big of a requirement as I usually employ subwoofers in all of my systems. Thanks to all posting the info is very helpful and interesting.
Kinda like an LS3 5A on steroids eh? I was thinking the same thing cause I have spare vifa I could put to use.
If you have P13 youmight look up the diyA 2-way ref project thread which will have a lot of grist for this kind of project.
dave
Hi,
There is nothing exact about Falcons versions of the LS3/5A drivers.
The Continuum is a very intelligent homage to the LS3/5A.
IMO FWIW you won't be able to better in a general sense DIY.
Cheaper, and better bang for buck, oh yes, lots of
good smaller designs out there, the usual suspects.
rgds, sreten.
There is nothing exact about Falcons versions of the LS3/5A drivers.
The Continuum is a very intelligent homage to the LS3/5A.
IMO FWIW you won't be able to better in a general sense DIY.
Cheaper, and better bang for buck, oh yes, lots of
good smaller designs out there, the usual suspects.
rgds, sreten.
LS5/9s are available new from Graham Audio (LS5/9 speakers).
As far asI understand it they are properly licensed and approved by the BBC.
However they use 8" woofs and they are seemingly not available for diy as they are specially made for Graham Audio by Volt and not featured in Volts regular line up.
As far asI understand it they are properly licensed and approved by the BBC.
However they use 8" woofs and they are seemingly not available for diy as they are specially made for Graham Audio by Volt and not featured in Volts regular line up.
Hi,
Good grief, they are from the dinosaur age. The original
LS5/9 was a huge flop years ago and they are no better.
24 elements in a x/o for a 2 way is patching up utter crap,
it is, IMO, in all respects an awful design methodology.
rgds, sreten.
(FWIW the the LS5/9 was a poorly developed and
investigated speaker fom the BBC. It was based
much on pure conjecture from previous designs,
and they got cocky and failed very miserably.)
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Personally I am not a great fan of any BBC speakers or the drivers used.
Probably because I am a great fan of cones made from paper and active speakers.
Either that or it is because of all those KEF based diy speakers I grew up with as a child. The first speakers I really liked were Wharfedale E90s driven by a Technics SE-A1.
Odd statement. As near exact as possible surely? Original materials as close as available, original spec., original designer. What differences have you uncovered? Do they measure differently to original units in practice? Surprising if so. How about the new T27s? Problems there too?
Sorry Im a little tired. I meant to delete it but obviously that didnt work.
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