Member
Joined 2006
Transmission protocol at the devices interface might have something to do with it?
For instance, please see Gordan Rankin's response on USB transmission protocols (towards the end of the article below).
“The three main USB transmission protocols are Bulk, Interrupt and Isosynchronous. Bulk (used for data transfer to a hard drive) and Interrupt are error correcting. Isosynchronous (used for audio) is not.”
Gordon Rankin on why USB audio quality varies | DAR__KO
For instance, please see Gordan Rankin's response on USB transmission protocols (towards the end of the article below).
“The three main USB transmission protocols are Bulk, Interrupt and Isosynchronous. Bulk (used for data transfer to a hard drive) and Interrupt are error correcting. Isosynchronous (used for audio) is not.”
Gordon Rankin on why USB audio quality varies | DAR__KO
Since we've gone through great lengths in trying
to acheive high quality playback lets be a pain about
this, how do we go about achieving high SQ ripping
into SD Card ? A friend suggested stripping programmes
in the laptop to bare minimum & use battery only.
I recalled reading Ricks computer set up but I prefer
to retain laptop instead . Hell, there's even talk about
different brands of SD card sounding differently just like
caps. Latest info I got was to go Toshiba so will try.
Thanks again Guys
to acheive high quality playback lets be a pain about
this, how do we go about achieving high SQ ripping
into SD Card ? A friend suggested stripping programmes
in the laptop to bare minimum & use battery only.
I recalled reading Ricks computer set up but I prefer
to retain laptop instead . Hell, there's even talk about
different brands of SD card sounding differently just like
caps. Latest info I got was to go Toshiba so will try.
Thanks again Guys
You are confusing analog recording with digital. Digital is far more robust and immune to noise and other problems. Similar to AM vs FM radio.
Some ripping programs provide a checksum of your rip and compare it to other rips of the same CD in the database. If your rip is identical in every way to someone else's rip, or to 100 rips, what do you think that means?
Playback is a different matter, but it has nothing to do with the data. It has to do with other things.
As long as you can't show differences in the data, then this discussion is pointless.
Some ripping programs provide a checksum of your rip and compare it to other rips of the same CD in the database. If your rip is identical in every way to someone else's rip, or to 100 rips, what do you think that means?
Playback is a different matter, but it has nothing to do with the data. It has to do with other things.
As long as you can't show differences in the data, then this discussion is pointless.
I see i have been mentioned in this thread so I have to write something.
I have found that ripping can make a difference. Whether the difference is large enough to justify the pain my process involves is unknown.
Basic things I have found is that it is best to use a SATA connected writer. USB does not sound as good. In fact, when I used USB to make copies I was hearing the same "sound" that got me to dismantle the music computer and move to the SDTrans. Amongst other things, USB does something peculiar in the midbass.
I like using SLITAZ/Linux for writing to the disk. It is the smallest OS I could find that does what you need without knowing LINUX commands.
The thing that confuses me the most about check sums being the arbiter of perfect versus trash is that when you use something like ACCURATE RIP (which I do not currently - no internet connection to my ripping computer) you are not told your copy was PERFECT or useless, you are told that it contained the numbers returned by X number of rips, or something like that, it has been quite awhile since I used it.
I guess if I knew how to get check sum information i would see how my files compare to the CD originals. My system is REDBOOK, only.
I guess what I find the most amusing thing about discussions of digital sound and its presumed robustness is how this goes in circles. Someone says they hear something wrong in digital someone else says that it impossible they are hearing that because of all of the usual reasons and then a few years later there is a new wave of DACs that have cured the problem. So many think the biggest hurdles of making a decent sounding DAC have been cleared.
I would hope not. A world bereft of the possibility of improvement is not a desired prospect.
So i stubbornly refuse to believe that ripping is deserving much more than cavalier treatment.
Whether you like it or not there is plenty of mystery surrounding digital audio. I guess all that matters is how satisfied you are with what you have.
I wish more people would try things on the ripping side. I have to believe there is something to be gained here.
I have found that ripping can make a difference. Whether the difference is large enough to justify the pain my process involves is unknown.
Basic things I have found is that it is best to use a SATA connected writer. USB does not sound as good. In fact, when I used USB to make copies I was hearing the same "sound" that got me to dismantle the music computer and move to the SDTrans. Amongst other things, USB does something peculiar in the midbass.
I like using SLITAZ/Linux for writing to the disk. It is the smallest OS I could find that does what you need without knowing LINUX commands.
The thing that confuses me the most about check sums being the arbiter of perfect versus trash is that when you use something like ACCURATE RIP (which I do not currently - no internet connection to my ripping computer) you are not told your copy was PERFECT or useless, you are told that it contained the numbers returned by X number of rips, or something like that, it has been quite awhile since I used it.
I guess if I knew how to get check sum information i would see how my files compare to the CD originals. My system is REDBOOK, only.
I guess what I find the most amusing thing about discussions of digital sound and its presumed robustness is how this goes in circles. Someone says they hear something wrong in digital someone else says that it impossible they are hearing that because of all of the usual reasons and then a few years later there is a new wave of DACs that have cured the problem. So many think the biggest hurdles of making a decent sounding DAC have been cleared.
I would hope not. A world bereft of the possibility of improvement is not a desired prospect.
So i stubbornly refuse to believe that ripping is deserving much more than cavalier treatment.
Whether you like it or not there is plenty of mystery surrounding digital audio. I guess all that matters is how satisfied you are with what you have.
I wish more people would try things on the ripping side. I have to believe there is something to be gained here.
Member
Joined 2006
“The three main USB transmission protocols are Bulk, Interrupt and Isosynchronous. Bulk (used for data transfer to a hard drive) and Interrupt are error correcting. Isosynchronous (used for audio) is not.”
Gordon Rankin on why USB audio quality varies | DAR__KO
This is not only the smps power supply which is Noisy in a laptop : but all the laptop layout ! So battery is not effective ! Better to try a little Odroid C1+ at 30 euros with a Fifo in front of it : it could be better than a SD Trans imho . Digital needs a quite ground : this why everybody has not the knowledge to make a good dac pcb
About the noise when Play back : serious designers like IanCanada or P. Rogic use ground chips isolator or isolator coils (traffo).
But bits are bits : it's 0 or 1 : and copy and transmission are very reliable : all the world around us works thanks to that !
I really think it is an alteration somewhere during a reccording process; as said Pano or as I said also: not Noisy bit !
Now playback is an other story !
Me uses a NAS with a FIFO & isolator and high quality clock!
When I ripp the cd there is a sort of checksum with some soft sharing the ripping datas of several users (Foobar2000) on a same track/album, but it's not very precise as each cd player introduce some différences !
As the batteries : I tried LiPoFe4 which is one of the best technology because it's low ESR : I'm not convinced : a very low noise sota regulator was better with Ian's clock and AYA II 2014 (I can listen to 192 upsampling with the simultaneous mode and the TDA1541A).
About NAS : I use classic 3.5 HDD but the flash units of today are very reliables but expensive : and speed is not mandatory for our hobby !
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Well this argument can go on & on & yet get no where if one keeps
insisting that there should be no difference if ripping is 100% error
free. It's just like guys saying caps cannot & should not change the sound
of the system & if it does it means something wrong with the circuit.
Performance of caps can be measured & yet when two different brands
measures the same they sound different so how do we come to terms with
this ? Well I perform another test & this time using a Sony Viao which has
an SD Card slot without having to use a USB SD card reader. Guess what
SQ better not alot but things like percussion instrument came out clearer
better then the old Lenovo T61 & the Lenovo Yoga. So is it the design of
the computer or is it the software that causes the difference ? One is on XP
the other on Windows 7 & Yoga on Windows 10
insisting that there should be no difference if ripping is 100% error
free. It's just like guys saying caps cannot & should not change the sound
of the system & if it does it means something wrong with the circuit.
Performance of caps can be measured & yet when two different brands
measures the same they sound different so how do we come to terms with
this ? Well I perform another test & this time using a Sony Viao which has
an SD Card slot without having to use a USB SD card reader. Guess what
SQ better not alot but things like percussion instrument came out clearer
better then the old Lenovo T61 & the Lenovo Yoga. So is it the design of
the computer or is it the software that causes the difference ? One is on XP
the other on Windows 7 & Yoga on Windows 10
You need to checksum to know ! Again no Noisy bits : it's a fact. You can not talk of reccording by checking with a playback : playback has its own issues ! If the culpritt is reccording : data checksum is the answer! Operation system software during reccording is not the culprit !
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Well Eldam my fren I can't really agree that Ian's fifo with Ordriod C1 would have better SQ. What's nice about the SDtrans is it's as direct as you can get with Red Book playback
and being such a well design transport Im hard pressed to think that you can get better
with another playback system.
Re check sum in Exact Audio there is a column that checks the data after ripping you can
view if the ripping is 100% or if there's some error
Lastly I've not gone I2S connection to Aya as yet who knows once connected SQ will be up
by another magnitute
Thks n cheers
and being such a well design transport Im hard pressed to think that you can get better
with another playback system.
Re check sum in Exact Audio there is a column that checks the data after ripping you can
view if the ripping is 100% or if there's some error
Lastly I've not gone I2S connection to Aya as yet who knows once connected SQ will be up
by another magnitute
Thks n cheers
Member
Joined 2006
Eldam, its all right that data are bit perfect as stored in the harddrive from the ripping, but according to Gordan Rankin above (please read).. its surprising that data transmission thru USB for audio part doesnt do error correction!
Similarly, could it be the transmission protocol issue too for causing inconsistent sonic results in SD card writing from using different PCs?
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Sony : give us back your fire wire port
Me using soon just TC/IP with a Pi/Odroid + fifo + isolator + clock after all linked with ud-l cables : I think it's reliable enough ! I will tell you if I hear a difference with the actual Wabe I/O usb as streamer ! I never noticed to have two different playback with one tune till now.
All remoted fro smartphone/tablett/pc/tv... with a NAS : Cloud synchronised back uped with a NAS friend elswhere on the planet : bi directional copy when one has an album : the other one has it at the next backup synchronisation : and it's bit perfect
Me using soon just TC/IP with a Pi/Odroid + fifo + isolator + clock after all linked with ud-l cables : I think it's reliable enough ! I will tell you if I hear a difference with the actual Wabe I/O usb as streamer ! I never noticed to have two different playback with one tune till now.
All remoted fro smartphone/tablett/pc/tv... with a NAS : Cloud synchronised back uped with a NAS friend elswhere on the planet : bi directional copy when one has an album : the other one has it at the next backup synchronisation : and it's bit perfect
Member
Joined 2006
Me buying tomorrow a salad and one LP at the country markett with my wicker shopping baskett ! Yah !
and this for the pcbs above : http://www.mondialextincteur.fr/Ext...ort-de-fixation-Panneau-signaletique-411.html
and this for the pcbs above : http://www.mondialextincteur.fr/Ext...ort-de-fixation-Panneau-signaletique-411.html
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