Hi Guys
Curiosity got the better off me . While I was ripping wav files
into my Sd card something came to my mind, would using different
lap tops have the same SQ. Im using Exact Copy program.
Well did the test by ripping 2 same files using 2 lap tops.
Hard to believe but there really is a difference in SQ. One lap top
is an really old Lenovo T61 while the other is the Lenovo Yoga.
Recording made from the new lap top just sounded more organic.
Bass is better, highs smooth & not spitty sounding.
Any ideas guys, noise etc etc that's causing this from the old
lap top
Thanks
Curiosity got the better off me . While I was ripping wav files
into my Sd card something came to my mind, would using different
lap tops have the same SQ. Im using Exact Copy program.
Well did the test by ripping 2 same files using 2 lap tops.
Hard to believe but there really is a difference in SQ. One lap top
is an really old Lenovo T61 while the other is the Lenovo Yoga.
Recording made from the new lap top just sounded more organic.
Bass is better, highs smooth & not spitty sounding.
Any ideas guys, noise etc etc that's causing this from the old
lap top
Thanks
Oh & here's the crunch, Im using mini Sd card & on the old lap top
theres a slot for it so mean direct downloading right. On my new lap
too there isn't, I have to use a USB base adaptor to down load the files.
So in theory the old lap top should sound better but it's not.
Head scratching time��
theres a slot for it so mean direct downloading right. On my new lap
too there isn't, I have to use a USB base adaptor to down load the files.
So in theory the old lap top should sound better but it's not.
Head scratching time��
Hello Indonesia,
Could you describe please the process ?
Is it : cd in the laptop cd player + wav via a soft (Window Media Player) on only one laptop then exact audio copy on the two laptops then copy on the same sdcard (the two files in the same time on the same sd card for a standalone listening one after the otther...or the sd card is erased with each time one file from one of the laptop only?)
The only thing I see if all is at iso perimeter is a lost of bits somewhere !
From one of the laptops to the sd card or from the sd card to the player (different areas on the sd card with some areas (caps?) wasted on the sd card ?
It could be also a variation of the AC from the wall between the two listenings, but I assume you repeated many times this test...
There is few chances than bits are lost whatever the laptop and port used towards the sdcard.
I'm not aware of a higher fragility of the flash memories over any data stocker if the material is new. (For instance in IT world we load hyperviser programs like VMWARE into the ram of a physical server from a sd card : this hyperviser soft is managing many virtuals servers... imagine a sd card was not safe enough - if not very old- !)
If the same SD card, the most thinkable is you ripped the cd twice : once in each cd player and then you had more jitter stuffs from one cd player during extraction or than one of the extraction is not bit acurate ! But I'm pretty sure but hardware problems than your copies between the hard disks towards the sd card whatever the ports are bit accurate !
Imho...
Could you describe please the process ?
Is it : cd in the laptop cd player + wav via a soft (Window Media Player) on only one laptop then exact audio copy on the two laptops then copy on the same sdcard (the two files in the same time on the same sd card for a standalone listening one after the otther...or the sd card is erased with each time one file from one of the laptop only?)
The only thing I see if all is at iso perimeter is a lost of bits somewhere !
From one of the laptops to the sd card or from the sd card to the player (different areas on the sd card with some areas (caps?) wasted on the sd card ?
It could be also a variation of the AC from the wall between the two listenings, but I assume you repeated many times this test...
There is few chances than bits are lost whatever the laptop and port used towards the sdcard.
I'm not aware of a higher fragility of the flash memories over any data stocker if the material is new. (For instance in IT world we load hyperviser programs like VMWARE into the ram of a physical server from a sd card : this hyperviser soft is managing many virtuals servers... imagine a sd card was not safe enough - if not very old- !)
If the same SD card, the most thinkable is you ripped the cd twice : once in each cd player and then you had more jitter stuffs from one cd player during extraction or than one of the extraction is not bit acurate ! But I'm pretty sure but hardware problems than your copies between the hard disks towards the sd card whatever the ports are bit accurate !
Imho...
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You make it sound confusing Eldam. Lol
Both laptops have exact copy software.
Cd downloaded into laptop via Exact Copy.
From there ripped into SD card via Sd card
slot in laptop for old laptop & via usb Sd Card
reader for new laptop.
If you say loss or inaccurate then the new lap
top should be more so cause a usb card reader
was added oh not to mention it also needed an
exterior drive to download CD into laptop & yet
Music ripped to Sd card from this laptop sounded
better
Cheers
Both laptops have exact copy software.
Cd downloaded into laptop via Exact Copy.
From there ripped into SD card via Sd card
slot in laptop for old laptop & via usb Sd Card
reader for new laptop.
If you say loss or inaccurate then the new lap
top should be more so cause a usb card reader
was added oh not to mention it also needed an
exterior drive to download CD into laptop & yet
Music ripped to Sd card from this laptop sounded
better
Cheers
Not confusing : there is a sense in what I said... that's why I ask if it was the same sd card and if you are sure than the datas on the sd card are in the same areas on this sd card !
Nowadays there is FIFO stuffs to prevent jitter from the data hardwares towards the dac chip ! But Hifi world had no talked too much yet of bits lost with time by aging of these supports : sectors losts on hard disks, caps fried on flash memories support !
One should test its Library with checksums with reference tracks... Usefull ? Not sure, but a scratched song the mind if not aware will not see the difference with a little quality alteration (it was easier with LPs... when the cat played with them to notice such différences between two listenings !)
Here yo notice a difference because imho one of the laptop is bad at extraction (PS : cd ripping I mean !) : jitter, not bit perfect... And here the old cauldron seems better for the magic soup, yeah !
(it's a hardware problem, not softs related !)
PS : you rip one cd disc towards a file store, but when you coppy a file from an hardware area to an other one : you should talk of copy (not ripping) !
So that's why I asked if the cd disc was ripped twice or if you just copied a file towards the two laptops (it's important to know for an answer for the people who knows computers...)
Nowadays there is FIFO stuffs to prevent jitter from the data hardwares towards the dac chip ! But Hifi world had no talked too much yet of bits lost with time by aging of these supports : sectors losts on hard disks, caps fried on flash memories support !
One should test its Library with checksums with reference tracks... Usefull ? Not sure, but a scratched song the mind if not aware will not see the difference with a little quality alteration (it was easier with LPs... when the cat played with them to notice such différences between two listenings !)
Here yo notice a difference because imho one of the laptop is bad at extraction (PS : cd ripping I mean !) : jitter, not bit perfect... And here the old cauldron seems better for the magic soup, yeah !
(it's a hardware problem, not softs related !)
PS : you rip one cd disc towards a file store, but when you coppy a file from an hardware area to an other one : you should talk of copy (not ripping) !
So that's why I asked if the cd disc was ripped twice or if you just copied a file towards the two laptops (it's important to know for an answer for the people who knows computers...)
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If you search around diyAudio, you'll find this has been covered several times. If there is a difference in sound then the data is different. That is easily tested with a checksum, as Eldam says.
If you find that the rips of the same track do not contain the same data on different SD cards, then there is a fault with your equipment or the ripping software. I'm betting the data is the same.
If you find that the rips of the same track do not contain the same data on different SD cards, then there is a fault with your equipment or the ripping software. I'm betting the data is the same.
I think I understand now what Sumotan wrote : by chance he loaded from a same external hard-disc a same material from it towards two lap-tops.
Then from each laptop towards the same sd card via "Exact copy" soft at different time !
Imho one of the laptop lost bits during the first operation (external hard disk towards laptops' hard disks) or the sd card has a problem (it is not the same exacts areas used on it during the two listenings : datas lost on one area) !
But it's more than very rare... that's why I talked also of AC walls fluctuations ! CD rippings difference from the two laptops would be more logical... first time I'm hearing about datas lost like that (from hard disk to hard disks to a sd card in a close time copies operations!)
selamat tinggal
Then from each laptop towards the same sd card via "Exact copy" soft at different time !
Imho one of the laptop lost bits during the first operation (external hard disk towards laptops' hard disks) or the sd card has a problem (it is not the same exacts areas used on it during the two listenings : datas lost on one area) !
But it's more than very rare... that's why I talked also of AC walls fluctuations ! CD rippings difference from the two laptops would be more logical... first time I'm hearing about datas lost like that (from hard disk to hard disks to a sd card in a close time copies operations!)
selamat tinggal
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Yes Eldam now you get the picture.
Thks Pana I read Ricks post on how
he rips his SD card for me it was
out of curiousity to rest.
Funny thing Eldam the better recording
really sounded much like LP ya
Btw your commend on Fifo before dac,
what's the point of it it infact some
data was lost during ripping.
Also in Exact Copy it tells you if your
downloads are 100% or ??? So if both
laptops are 100% error free then something
must have been lost during transfer to SD
Card right
Thks Pana I read Ricks post on how
he rips his SD card for me it was
out of curiousity to rest.
Funny thing Eldam the better recording
really sounded much like LP ya
Btw your commend on Fifo before dac,
what's the point of it it infact some
data was lost during ripping.
Also in Exact Copy it tells you if your
downloads are 100% or ??? So if both
laptops are 100% error free then something
must have been lost during transfer to SD
Card right
That's the point ! Fiffo can not save you from data lost before it 
: it is just for acurate timing transfer (one calls Jitter when bad) on several bus (I2S has 3 lines for instance.)
If you twice used Exact copy from the external disk and then towards sd card with 100 % score each time : i surmise the sd card to have some areas wasted... In the meantime I 'm not aware if Exact copy is reliable ?! But it's not rocket science and copying datas is not a difficult thing !
Buy a high grade SD card, then do again the test whith this brand new stuff (or with the old : copy from each laptop several times the files on the sdcard one after the others : song laptop 1, song laptop2, song laptop 1, song laptop 2 ! listen the 4 files in once listening to see if you can check difference ! If you putt 4 files on the sd card you can assume it is not the same areas on the sd card which are used...) ! Than you will know if one laptop is the culpritt or the sd card !
: it is just for acurate timing transfer (one calls Jitter when bad) on several bus (I2S has 3 lines for instance.)If you twice used Exact copy from the external disk and then towards sd card with 100 % score each time : i surmise the sd card to have some areas wasted... In the meantime I 'm not aware if Exact copy is reliable ?! But it's not rocket science and copying datas is not a difficult thing !
Buy a high grade SD card, then do again the test whith this brand new stuff
(or with the old : copy from each laptop several times the files on the sdcard one after the others : song laptop 1, song laptop2, song laptop 1, song laptop 2 ! listen the 4 files in once listening to see if you can check difference ! If you putt 4 files on the sd card you can assume it is not the same areas on the sd card which are used...) ! Than you will know if one laptop is the culpritt or the sd card !
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high grade is speed of transfer : class 10 for instance.... https://www.sdcard.org/developers/overview/speed_class/
I don't think speed is usefull at reading music here, more important during reccording process with huge files : high resolution photographs for instance or even more high def video !
Plus I believe there is a buffer on your SD Tans reader : so the datas are buffered before (I surmise) to be sended to the dac chip !
An other thing could be the two laptops hard disks have not exactly the same systeme files (one with FAT16, the other with FAT32 for instance) or the same sector sizes on their disks (you talked about two laptops générations) and there will be a lost due to a software fault during the copies ???? I doubt of that ! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital
But I wanted more to say : good quality/reliable brand! ScanDisk is ok.
You can try to re format your sd card to see if the thing happens yet !
I don't think speed is usefull at reading music here, more important during reccording process with huge files : high resolution photographs for instance or even more high def video !
Plus I believe there is a buffer on your SD Tans reader : so the datas are buffered before (I surmise) to be sended to the dac chip !
An other thing could be the two laptops hard disks have not exactly the same systeme files (one with FAT16, the other with FAT32 for instance) or the same sector sizes on their disks (you talked about two laptops générations) and there will be a lost due to a software fault during the copies ???? I doubt of that ! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital
But I wanted more to say : good quality/reliable brand! ScanDisk is ok.
You can try to re format your sd card to see if the thing happens yet !
If the bits are not the same on both cards, you have a fault. It is simple to check if they are the same.
If the bits are the same, the sound is the same. That's how it works. If they ARE the same, they will sound the same. There is no jitter on an SD card. There are no weak bits, or good bits or bad bits or blue bits or green bits. It is simple to run a checksum on the files to see if they are the same. You can also transfer the files to your hard drive or another SD card and run a checksum. Check them to see if you have a problem.
Until you do that, all claims are moot.
If the bits are the same, the sound is the same. That's how it works. If they ARE the same, they will sound the same. There is no jitter on an SD card. There are no weak bits, or good bits or bad bits or blue bits or green bits. It is simple to run a checksum on the files to see if they are the same. You can also transfer the files to your hard drive or another SD card and run a checksum. Check them to see if you have a problem.
Until you do that, all claims are moot.
yep i will be curious to know where the bits are lost : if from the external disk to one of the laptop or from one of the laptop to the unique sdcard used from the beginning !
green bits are bits made with solar energy and cooled in Groenland Datacenters !
jitter is not from the sd card but may happen between the reader and the dac chip ! ghost bits (or red if you prefer)!... but we don't care here (Sumotan time to buy a NAS with a fifo for your AYA ?!)
... not important we are all deaf and use OBs today! (you know the bit which pass from 0 to 1 at 15 K Hz ! lol....
green bits are bits made with solar energy
and cooled in Groenland Datacenters !jitter is not from the sd card but may happen between the reader and the dac chip ! ghost bits (or red if you prefer)!... but we don't care here (Sumotan time to buy a NAS with a fifo for your AYA
?!)... not important we are all deaf and use OBs today! (you know the bit which pass from 0 to 1 at 15 K Hz ! lol....
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As long as they produce the same checksum, they are identical. The process of Digital-to-Analog Conversion is extremely sensitive. It could be affected by many factors, including media (as in your case), reader chip, controller...etc. They produce different jitter and passed by stray capacitance and interference to DAC. Even the file location on the media matters! It's hard to believe, but some people claimed they can hear the difference. All I can say is the difference in sound is determined by the moment you play the music, not the digital content.
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