audiotux said:
Jürgen,
i have a lump on the posterior of my head, it acts as a turning knob to set the language.
Many years ago i had a talk with a 27 year old American woman residing in Portugal who spoke 27 languages, after that incidence i better be modest. I post for practicing the writing, i learned German mostly from watching NDR, ZDF, and RockPalast on the WDR on television as a youngster. Noticed i missed an N here and there in my previous post.
The jail remark was just kidding, i meant marriage.
Actually, i do need a second set of wires. The new batch of amplifiers i am constructing will be placed under the floor because of heat and fan noise issues.
Asking someone for 24 meters of expensive cable is not how they teached me.
However, if you have that much and are willing to sell me the cable for a price that does not make me blush from shame, that would be nice.
Solch ein toller angebot macht mich doch ziemlich froh, dann und wann treft man hier sehr sympatische leute.
Regards,
jacco.
Tony said:
On a side note,I have an SS amp here that i've been tinkering with lately.I think I finally got it sounding pretty good,except for a tad bit of crosstalk,from the 2-cond. shielded cable I used for the input jack/volume pot wiring. My final tweak was to replace the 2-cond. cable with two seperate 1-cond. shielded cables,to get rid of the crosstalk.
The 1-cond. cables I used were from a monitor cable..and now the amp sounds wierd and "grainy".
Has anybody else noticed this when using the 'recycled' shielded wire from monitor cables?
I was so excited that the amp was going to be finished,untill I listened to it...some of the "magic' was gone!
DigitalJunkie said:On a side note,I have an SS amp here that i've been tinkering with lately.I think I finally got it sounding pretty good,except for a tad bit of crosstalk,from the 2-cond. shielded cable I used for the input jack/volume pot wiring. My final tweak was to replace the 2-cond. cable with two seperate 1-cond. shielded cables,to get rid of the crosstalk.
The 1-cond. cables I used were from a monitor cable..and now the amp sounds wierd and "grainy".
Has anybody else noticed this when using the 'recycled' shielded wire from monitor cables?
I was so excited that the amp was going to be finished,untill I listened to it...some of the "magic' was gone!
You can try microphone cable (two wires+shield), connect the two wires for signal and signal ground, and the shield only on one side, the signal ground on the amp.
This is 'semi-balanced'.
Regarding the grainy sound of that PC monitor cable, probably it was from an old, low resolution CGA monitor.
The arguments posted here are refreshingly down to earth. Way back in my post #7 I ventured with great reticence that cable matters are sometimes as mad as it gets.
One thing I would respectfully venture to say: The one thing that does NOT inspire confidence is the exotic explanations often offered by cable manufacturers themselves. Jeepers, I have never seen science turned on its head as can happen there! It is such sometimes total ignorance of even basic science that often creates the perception that a fancy piece of cable was dug up somewhere, and now someone is trying to bluff folks with floral narrative into believing that a "new development" has taken place. Yes, materials science has advanced by gigantic strides - and with it experts who knows what the characteristics of those materials are and are laughing their heads off at the science fictionlike promotion dished up. Perhaps some will recall the realistic article in Electronics World some 4 years ago by Douglas Self: "Why I buy my Cables at Woolworths".
Having said that: No one advocates the use of bell wire or lamp flex for loudspeaker cable. But stuff going into the $100+/meter or orders of magnitude higher .... I am at present trying to get into the manufacturing process of so-called "oxygen-free copper" and would appreciate some references in that direction (I am talking about metallurgy scientific stuff). Feedback I got thus far, raised some doubts .... but let me just stop there.
I am also perturbed by the reported ease with which some amplifiers appear to "go squealing" with quite low values of output cable capacitance. I must have done many dozens of analyses looking into this, and it is just simply not too difficult to avoid this. And I am not trying to sound like a know-all; we are talking basics here. But I am not knowledgeable about all the different commercial brands and must accept the experience of others.
One does find, however, that in r.f. rich environments the MHz can get onto the loudspeaker leads and into an amplifier. Someone suggested that this is hardly a problem; no, unfortunately it is, especially in instruments where heavy feedback is relied upon to get a low output impedance. Even in an analysis program, some pretty horror shows can be generated by loading an amp with a loudspeaker equivalent network and then inserting various r.f. spectra from that end. It is a sobering exercise!
I get the impression that some honourable members are using quite lengthy speaker leads. What length in the typical international household?
Regards
One thing I would respectfully venture to say: The one thing that does NOT inspire confidence is the exotic explanations often offered by cable manufacturers themselves. Jeepers, I have never seen science turned on its head as can happen there! It is such sometimes total ignorance of even basic science that often creates the perception that a fancy piece of cable was dug up somewhere, and now someone is trying to bluff folks with floral narrative into believing that a "new development" has taken place. Yes, materials science has advanced by gigantic strides - and with it experts who knows what the characteristics of those materials are and are laughing their heads off at the science fictionlike promotion dished up. Perhaps some will recall the realistic article in Electronics World some 4 years ago by Douglas Self: "Why I buy my Cables at Woolworths".
Having said that: No one advocates the use of bell wire or lamp flex for loudspeaker cable. But stuff going into the $100+/meter or orders of magnitude higher .... I am at present trying to get into the manufacturing process of so-called "oxygen-free copper" and would appreciate some references in that direction (I am talking about metallurgy scientific stuff). Feedback I got thus far, raised some doubts .... but let me just stop there.
I am also perturbed by the reported ease with which some amplifiers appear to "go squealing" with quite low values of output cable capacitance. I must have done many dozens of analyses looking into this, and it is just simply not too difficult to avoid this. And I am not trying to sound like a know-all; we are talking basics here. But I am not knowledgeable about all the different commercial brands and must accept the experience of others.
One does find, however, that in r.f. rich environments the MHz can get onto the loudspeaker leads and into an amplifier. Someone suggested that this is hardly a problem; no, unfortunately it is, especially in instruments where heavy feedback is relied upon to get a low output impedance. Even in an analysis program, some pretty horror shows can be generated by loading an amp with a loudspeaker equivalent network and then inserting various r.f. spectra from that end. It is a sobering exercise!
I get the impression that some honourable members are using quite lengthy speaker leads. What length in the typical international household?
Regards
Hi Johan,
I have seen some poorly designed amplifiers that are on the verge of oscillation all by themselves, and seen cables that pushed them over. Yes, this situation can be avoided easily
My cables are around 10' each side, but hopefully soon I'll be able to extend them to 25' or so a side. Laid out straight. I will probably use a 16 GA fine strand copper standard wire. I may be forced to using 14 GA, but we will see.
I'd rather see 25' of speaker wire than 25' of signal cable to the amps any day.
-Chris
I have seen some poorly designed amplifiers that are on the verge of oscillation all by themselves, and seen cables that pushed them over. Yes, this situation can be avoided easily
My cables are around 10' each side, but hopefully soon I'll be able to extend them to 25' or so a side. Laid out straight. I will probably use a 16 GA fine strand copper standard wire. I may be forced to using 14 GA, but we will see.
I'd rather see 25' of speaker wire than 25' of signal cable to the amps any day.
-Chris
Hehehe
Well, last week it was 15' dual ofc for left and 6' dual ofc for right, and now it's 5' "audiophile grade" lamp cord left side and 6' 6" cat5e right side. (6' would be the ideal length, I'm testing cables )
Someone already heard this phenomena happen? I see so much people here that would think that CD demagnetizers, etc. actually work that I want to get proofs before believing something.
I'm the kind of person who believes in nothing until it happens to me. Around of my amp there are tons of "RF amps", "RF modulators", etc. and a TV and I don't hear 60Hz appearing anywhere else than from the cabinet vibrations and the unshielded pre to poweramp ribbon cable.
Well, last week it was 15' dual ofc for left and 6' dual ofc for right, and now it's 5' "audiophile grade" lamp cord left side and 6' 6" cat5e right side. (6' would be the ideal length, I'm testing cables
)Someone already heard this phenomena happen? I see so much people here that would think that CD demagnetizers, etc. actually work that I want to get proofs before believing something.
I'm the kind of person who believes in nothing until it happens to me. Around of my amp there are tons of "RF amps", "RF modulators", etc. and a TV and I don't hear 60Hz appearing anywhere else than from the cabinet vibrations and the unshielded pre to poweramp ribbon cable.
Hi DragonMaster,
It happened to me from two sources at the same time. I used to live near a big AM transmitting site in Mississauga. I also had an illegal amplified CBer next door. The CBer could be heard with the amplifier off! The AM station was strong enough to make non-shielded CD players not function.
I made a pair of RF pi filters for my speaker leads at the amp end. The cables were only about 6' long each side. I do hope it never happens to you. The CBer was not a very nice or responsible person. I got him back
Arrrr de arrrrr. (I didn't pin his coax, I caused other, directed EMI - Harrrr harrr harrr).
-Chris
It happened to me from two sources at the same time. I used to live near a big AM transmitting site in Mississauga. I also had an illegal amplified CBer next door. The CBer could be heard with the amplifier off! The AM station was strong enough to make non-shielded CD players not function.
I made a pair of RF pi filters for my speaker leads at the amp end. The cables were only about 6' long each side. I do hope it never happens to you. The CBer was not a very nice or responsible person. I got him back
Arrrr de arrrrr. (I didn't pin his coax, I caused other, directed EMI - Harrrr harrr harrr).-Chris
Ugh!
I used to have a neighbor with an illegal amp on his CB,in his truck..
He'd drive by every morning at the crack of dawn and I'd get a loud ear-full of "BREAKER BREAKER" even if my stereo was off.
I tried filters,ferrite,caps,etc..nothing got rid of it.
Right about the time I was almost seriously going to pin his coax,it stopped..Maybe somebody beat me to it?
God that was obnoxious.
SS output stages make good AM detectors..
Between the output stage,speaker wire and speaker,you've got an X-tal radio!
Get an RF signal thats strong enough,and you'll hear it loud and clear.
I used to have a neighbor with an illegal amp on his CB,in his truck..
He'd drive by every morning at the crack of dawn and I'd get a loud ear-full of "BREAKER BREAKER" even if my stereo was off.
I tried filters,ferrite,caps,etc..nothing got rid of it.
Right about the time I was almost seriously going to pin his coax,it stopped..Maybe somebody beat me to it?
God that was obnoxious.
SS output stages make good AM detectors..
Between the output stage,speaker wire and speaker,you've got an X-tal radio!
Get an RF signal thats strong enough,and you'll hear it loud and clear.
Oh, I see.
Here, in the suburbs of Montreal, there's absolutely no transmitters near us. The only thing is that in the room where one of my systems is, there was a fax before and we could hear some AM channels on it. But even with any speaker wires, I never heard the AM disturb anything.
Hehehehe.
Well I think that my lamp cord was 3' and that's why it was too short because both speakers are not ftoo far from the amp.
Here, in the suburbs of Montreal, there's absolutely no transmitters near us. The only thing is that in the room where one of my systems is, there was a fax before and we could hear some AM channels on it. But even with any speaker wires, I never heard the AM disturb anything.
Hehehehe.
Well I think that my lamp cord was 3' and that's why it was too short because both speakers are not ftoo far from the amp.
DragonMaster said:
DragonMaster,
I absolutely agree with you. (You may have noticed that I am also on the conservative side. As Douglas Self said: In audio it pays to be sceptical.)
Having said that, I have not experienced r.f. effects myself as I am also far from r.f. sources, but I have found it in the equipment of others, and as said, one could establish this in simulation. Adding Anatek's remarks as to how easily some amplifiers tend to go into oscillation I will not be surprised; anything is possible these days, especially with long speaker leads. I would however not go over the top and advise extravagant screening, etc. per se. One must first establish that this is in fact a threat in your particular situation.
Would you think that my Toshiba amp could oscillate easily? It's the kind of amp that I can pull out the 1/4 jacks off my PAs without blowing it. Last week I short the speaker terminals for 5 minutes without even knowing it and the amp just made a lot of heat, and once it started distorting I found that something was wrong. After cooling down it was OK. It seems pretty fragile when you see it's rated 8 ohms BTW and it connects the speakers in series when the A/B switches are both on.
Hi DragonMaster,
The Toshiba is reasonably well designed and reliable. It isn't the most powerful, or maybe the best sounding. It is a decent amplifier when run within it's ratings.
It will eventually die when given enough chances to do so, don't encourage it. I am glad it's survived so far.
The reason they put the speakers in series is really simple. Everyone thinks they can run their consumer amp into a two ohm load and blast it all night. It's no pro amp (even they die when mistreated) so survival of the warranty plan dictated they put the speakers in series. The average home user that may switch between speakers at sane levels wouldn't notice, the animals who put the speakers (4 ohm no less) on A & B and cranked it would believe they were getting 2X the power. This saved the amp. They bought more of these. Manufacturer won both ways. Survival.
-Chris
The Toshiba is reasonably well designed and reliable. It isn't the most powerful, or maybe the best sounding. It is a decent amplifier when run within it's ratings.
It will eventually die when given enough chances to do so, don't encourage it. I am glad it's survived so far.
The reason they put the speakers in series is really simple. Everyone thinks they can run their consumer amp into a two ohm load and blast it all night. It's no pro amp (even they die when mistreated) so survival of the warranty plan dictated they put the speakers in series. The average home user that may switch between speakers at sane levels wouldn't notice, the animals who put the speakers (4 ohm no less) on A & B and cranked it would believe they were getting 2X the power. This saved the amp. They bought more of these. Manufacturer won both ways. Survival.
-Chris
I try not to short it too much when plugging/unplugging it but I can't notice when it happens. (It doesn't blow)
Yup, it destroyed 4x 20-40w woofers. (Distorton?)
Well, it's noisy and humming but I've compared it to the EICO HF-12s not restored and it's the same thing, just more powerful and harsher.
Now let's return to cables! (I know how to get off-topic)
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