Noisy Springs
Hello,
It's been 8 months since my last TD124 tune up. I usually check the oil, clean the belt and rub in new talc, clean the step pulley, platter inner rim, and clean the idler wheel (idler wheel made by Simone L with red O ring).
Since I had the TT apart, I decided to try Kevin's idea for dampening the step pulley wheel I used a double layer of 1/8 inch neoprene foam sheets glued in using 3M mounting spray adhesive. The pully is now silent when struck.
I used a stethoscope to check out if any abnormal noises were present. The table sounded great, just a soft whirling sound of the motor. I lightly tapped the top plate and heard a chorus of noises. It sounded like vibrating springs and metal like the reverb sound made using an echoplex. I gently tapped the various springs and parts to locate the noise makers. I decided to dampen the long switch lever spring and the switch actuating spring. I also dampened the steel ribbon. I used some Scotch adhesive dots as you can see in the pictures. Now when I tap the top plate, there is a lot less noise.
Upon first auditioning of the reworked table, I was amazed. The bass was now much tighter and less bloated. The voices were clean and clear. I listened to Blue Train again and Chamber's bass came alive. Try it and let me know what you guys think.
Regards,
David
Hello,
It's been 8 months since my last TD124 tune up. I usually check the oil, clean the belt and rub in new talc, clean the step pulley, platter inner rim, and clean the idler wheel (idler wheel made by Simone L with red O ring).
Since I had the TT apart, I decided to try Kevin's idea for dampening the step pulley wheel I used a double layer of 1/8 inch neoprene foam sheets glued in using 3M mounting spray adhesive. The pully is now silent when struck.
I used a stethoscope to check out if any abnormal noises were present. The table sounded great, just a soft whirling sound of the motor. I lightly tapped the top plate and heard a chorus of noises. It sounded like vibrating springs and metal like the reverb sound made using an echoplex. I gently tapped the various springs and parts to locate the noise makers. I decided to dampen the long switch lever spring and the switch actuating spring. I also dampened the steel ribbon. I used some Scotch adhesive dots as you can see in the pictures. Now when I tap the top plate, there is a lot less noise.
Upon first auditioning of the reworked table, I was amazed. The bass was now much tighter and less bloated. The voices were clean and clear. I listened to Blue Train again and Chamber's bass came alive. Try it and let me know what you guys think.
Regards,
David
Originally, I wanted to take the springs off and put in foam strips, but that involved more work than I was willing to do. I took the short cut and used what I had on hand which was Scotch permanent adhesive dots 8mm. They're very thin used for mounting photos and poster boards. They're very pliable and hopefully removeable. They're double sided and very sticky. I think there are products out there that are removeable and not as sticky.
Hello from Greece.
It is my first post here where all of you do your very best to inform and offer your experiences, ideas and help to any of us who hear music and enjoy the fantastic TD 124.
I have a TD 124II (iron platter) with FR 64 S and Audio Note Io cartridge. I am more than happy with that combination. I had changed lots of TTs as Linn LP12, Dual 1019, Kuzma Stabi, TD 125, TD 150, Aura,Transrotor,Voyd plus etc that bI owned the last 35 years.. With the TD 124 I am hearing'' music'' for hours like never before. Best as mentoned here PRAT ever , body, 3 D live image, emotional, pleasant and so friendly to hear etc etc..
I have it for years as a second tt but it was always better than anything else i owned...so I decided to keep it as my main tt .
I lubricated all important parts using some different oil types. I recently used Schopper's oil with good results. I also bought from them the main bearing and stepped pulley thrust plates, motor rubber suspensions and drive belt. All those parts and lubrications improved the sound performance and lowered the train chain noise a lot.
I see that the main bearing's Schopper derlin thrust plate after 40 hours...of playing time with a silicon oil that I had put 2 months ago has an unexpected wear sign due the steel ball of the shaft.
Today I changed that with a new thrust plate of the same company The time the platter stops is 55-57 seconds... I had put 3 drops of oil as the seller advised me to do.
BTW. The motor after lubricating with Schopper oil works faster...and eddy brake is adjusted to the max ..in order to obtain the correct speed.Voltage here is 230v.It was 220v 5-7 years ago. Your posts regarding that issue are very informative and helpful.
Two years ago using the original old old thrust plate which had also a similar sign of wear and using Castrol synthetic 5-30 engine oil over the top of the lower bushing just to see the platter's stopping time, I was surprised that stopping time was about 90 seconds... I do not know what happened and time now is even lower than before and lower than factory specs ( Thorens said 75 seconds.?)
Four months ago I decided to relubricate the main bearing and surprisingly I saw that the old Castrol oil had a bad smell and the color was quite braun....After that bad surprise I cleaned the bearing using isopropylic alchool and left that alchool a few days in the bearing for best cleaning. I put an other electric motor silicon type of oil that a friend recommended to me and the stopping time was from 2 minutes!!....to 57 seconds....When I pulled out the shaft and put it again inside the bearing the stopping time was again 2 minutes...but after some working time of the platter (5 minutes) ,the stopping time was 57 -60 second again... I think that when shaft was out the oil filled the thrust plate wear and lubricated it well. When the oil was removed after some turns due to steel ball presure , then the friction was increased again and the stopping time was decreased... That might be an issue but I do not know if is a correct thought or not. It is a strange experience that makes me feel that there might be frictions due to oil types or due to soft thrust plate wear...
If you have any idea, could you please let me know? The bearing thrust plate is as you know well not very hard as it is made of derlin , but because it is soft , noises of shaft and heavy platter might be lower compared to other very hard plate matterials which might improve stopping time as friction is lower.
I really want to enjoy that fantastic tt, keep it in a very good working condition for the reast of my life. I think you all want the same for your beautiful TD 124s
Thank you and kind regards
Ongakos
It is my first post here where all of you do your very best to inform and offer your experiences, ideas and help to any of us who hear music and enjoy the fantastic TD 124.
I have a TD 124II (iron platter) with FR 64 S and Audio Note Io cartridge. I am more than happy with that combination. I had changed lots of TTs as Linn LP12, Dual 1019, Kuzma Stabi, TD 125, TD 150, Aura,Transrotor,Voyd plus etc that bI owned the last 35 years.. With the TD 124 I am hearing'' music'' for hours like never before. Best as mentoned here PRAT ever , body, 3 D live image, emotional, pleasant and so friendly to hear etc etc..
I have it for years as a second tt but it was always better than anything else i owned...so I decided to keep it as my main tt .
I lubricated all important parts using some different oil types. I recently used Schopper's oil with good results. I also bought from them the main bearing and stepped pulley thrust plates, motor rubber suspensions and drive belt. All those parts and lubrications improved the sound performance and lowered the train chain noise a lot.
I see that the main bearing's Schopper derlin thrust plate after 40 hours...of playing time with a silicon oil that I had put 2 months ago has an unexpected wear sign due the steel ball of the shaft.
Today I changed that with a new thrust plate of the same company The time the platter stops is 55-57 seconds... I had put 3 drops of oil as the seller advised me to do.
BTW. The motor after lubricating with Schopper oil works faster...and eddy brake is adjusted to the max ..in order to obtain the correct speed.Voltage here is 230v.It was 220v 5-7 years ago. Your posts regarding that issue are very informative and helpful.
Two years ago using the original old old thrust plate which had also a similar sign of wear and using Castrol synthetic 5-30 engine oil over the top of the lower bushing just to see the platter's stopping time, I was surprised that stopping time was about 90 seconds... I do not know what happened and time now is even lower than before and lower than factory specs ( Thorens said 75 seconds.?)
Four months ago I decided to relubricate the main bearing and surprisingly I saw that the old Castrol oil had a bad smell and the color was quite braun....After that bad surprise I cleaned the bearing using isopropylic alchool and left that alchool a few days in the bearing for best cleaning. I put an other electric motor silicon type of oil that a friend recommended to me and the stopping time was from 2 minutes!!....to 57 seconds....When I pulled out the shaft and put it again inside the bearing the stopping time was again 2 minutes...but after some working time of the platter (5 minutes) ,the stopping time was 57 -60 second again... I think that when shaft was out the oil filled the thrust plate wear and lubricated it well. When the oil was removed after some turns due to steel ball presure , then the friction was increased again and the stopping time was decreased... That might be an issue but I do not know if is a correct thought or not. It is a strange experience that makes me feel that there might be frictions due to oil types or due to soft thrust plate wear...
If you have any idea, could you please let me know? The bearing thrust plate is as you know well not very hard as it is made of derlin , but because it is soft , noises of shaft and heavy platter might be lower compared to other very hard plate matterials which might improve stopping time as friction is lower.
I really want to enjoy that fantastic tt, keep it in a very good working condition for the reast of my life. I think you all want the same for your beautiful TD 124s
Thank you and kind regards
Ongakos
Well, I'm evil I used to use 20wt electric motor oil and filled the bearing well to just above the top of the lower oilite bushing - coast down times of over two minutes for months and months.
I use mild steel thrust plates with heavy bronze or stainless steel end caps. I prefer this to the nylatron thrust plate Thorens used. I believe the steel thrust plate might be just very slightly noisier, but reduces maintenance issues. I plan to try ceramic nitride ball bearings on both of mine at some point.
Recently I changed to 30wt oil in the bearing wells of both of my TD-124 which slightly increases drag and helps just slightly with the eddy brake setting issue we all seem to have. I still fill the housing to just beyond the top of the bushing and now it takes about 5 minutes for the shaft to settle to the bottom of the housing. Coast time is short at 30 - 40 seconds. I prefer the sound this way, and if you do not like it, it is reversible.
Do not use standard automotive motor oils, you want single viscosity non-detergent motor oil otherwise the things you observed will happen again. Viscosity is rather important in getting it to run properly as well.
Note that I did say I was evil, and I guarantee someone will tell you I am full of it.. lol Note that the bushings in my MKI are new, and the ones in my MKII had very little use - the ex owner is the parent of a close friend so history is known.
I have wired up a buck transformer for my MKII and reduced the line voltage from 117V to 110V - this was enough to allow me to back off the brake a bit and made things much quieter.
Hope this is helpful.
I use mild steel thrust plates with heavy bronze or stainless steel end caps. I prefer this to the nylatron thrust plate Thorens used. I believe the steel thrust plate might be just very slightly noisier, but reduces maintenance issues. I plan to try ceramic nitride ball bearings on both of mine at some point.
Recently I changed to 30wt oil in the bearing wells of both of my TD-124 which slightly increases drag and helps just slightly with the eddy brake setting issue we all seem to have. I still fill the housing to just beyond the top of the bushing and now it takes about 5 minutes for the shaft to settle to the bottom of the housing. Coast time is short at 30 - 40 seconds. I prefer the sound this way, and if you do not like it, it is reversible.
Do not use standard automotive motor oils, you want single viscosity non-detergent motor oil otherwise the things you observed will happen again. Viscosity is rather important in getting it to run properly as well.
Note that I did say I was evil, and I guarantee someone will tell you I am full of it.. lol Note that the bushings in my MKI are new, and the ones in my MKII had very little use - the ex owner is the parent of a close friend so history is known.
I have wired up a buck transformer for my MKII and reduced the line voltage from 117V to 110V - this was enough to allow me to back off the brake a bit and made things much quieter.
Hope this is helpful.
Thank you Kevin,
Very informative as always
So viscosity from wt 20 to wt 30 is changing the coast time from 2 minutes to 30-40 seconds!!! Big difference...
I thought that it should be better to have longer coast time -stopping time as friction is lower in order to obtain longer coast time. It might have better rhytm?or better timing?
It is a complicated combination of oil type, oil viscosity, quantity of oil in the bearing, type of thrust plate, type of ball bearing, bushings etc etc.only for the main bearing...
The other issues of the train chain is an other complicated equation ...
But even though the 124 is still the best sounding tt for my ears and we have to solve those equations sooner or later. Here is the best place for a Thorens 124 enthusiast to find very serious advices , ideas and solutions.
Some 124 owners who use a heavy plinth do not want to use mushrooms.
Some others use lightweight plinths with mushrooms.
I use a heavy mass multilayer plywood plinth with mushrooms and a cocobolo armboard.
The sound is changing a lot with the above materials or combinations of them and the choice is depended of owners taste, the character of rest of system and the room acoustics.
An other endless equation just to keep us alive
Very informative as always
So viscosity from wt 20 to wt 30 is changing the coast time from 2 minutes to 30-40 seconds!!! Big difference...
I thought that it should be better to have longer coast time -stopping time as friction is lower in order to obtain longer coast time. It might have better rhytm?or better timing?
It is a complicated combination of oil type, oil viscosity, quantity of oil in the bearing, type of thrust plate, type of ball bearing, bushings etc etc.only for the main bearing...
The other issues of the train chain is an other complicated equation ...
But even though the 124 is still the best sounding tt for my ears and we have to solve those equations sooner or later. Here is the best place for a Thorens 124 enthusiast to find very serious advices , ideas and solutions.
Some 124 owners who use a heavy plinth do not want to use mushrooms.
Some others use lightweight plinths with mushrooms.
I use a heavy mass multilayer plywood plinth with mushrooms and a cocobolo armboard.
The sound is changing a lot with the above materials or combinations of them and the choice is depended of owners taste, the character of rest of system and the room acoustics.
An other endless equation just to keep us alive
I am amazed with Kevin's posts and tons of experiments .
I did recently an experiment to demagnetize the iron plater and shaft. I pulled them out of bearing to do that. I heard a difference which to my system was an audible improvement. I used an old tv demagnetizer for that purpose.
I think that the good results will not remain for ever as magnetic fields are produced from the motor mainly , the eddy brake magnet etc which will magnetize the iron platter again by the time.
I would like to replace the steel ball of the shaft to a ceramic nitride one and the thrust plate to a harder material than the nylatron as Kevin did. Maybe very well polished like mirror steel ? I think nylatron will always have serious wear which will cause friction . What diameter in mm ceramic nitride ball of the shaft have I to look for? How can I remove the standard without to cause any damage to the ring There is a brass ring which holds that stell ball.
Any advises?
I did recently an experiment to demagnetize the iron plater and shaft. I pulled them out of bearing to do that. I heard a difference which to my system was an audible improvement. I used an old tv demagnetizer for that purpose.
I think that the good results will not remain for ever as magnetic fields are produced from the motor mainly , the eddy brake magnet etc which will magnetize the iron platter again by the time.
I would like to replace the steel ball of the shaft to a ceramic nitride one and the thrust plate to a harder material than the nylatron as Kevin did. Maybe very well polished like mirror steel ? I think nylatron will always have serious wear which will cause friction . What diameter in mm ceramic nitride ball of the shaft have I to look for? How can I remove the standard without to cause any damage to the ring There is a brass ring which holds that stell ball.
Any advises?
Hi TerribleT
Yes of course I will describe it.
Head demagnetizer is a small device to demag a large and heavy platter.It will be not effective. There is a low price device like a large ring ,diameter about 10" made by copper solid core wire, AC in US 120v that the technicians of old CRT TV were using that in order to demag the screen main tube and refresh its condition. That ring has an on off push pull simple switch.
You place the platter on a table, you hold the demag ring with two hands on the platter. So platter and ring demagnetizer are touching each other. The center of the platter and the center of the demag ring are on the same vertical axis. Then you push the on button constantly for 1 minute and the demag is starting to work. Without to turn the on off button of the demag , you very very slowly pull the demag over the platter. When the demagnetizer is over the platter of about 3 feet or more ,then you push the on off button to off. The demag is done.
You can do experiment to any iron items first to see how it works. For example you can put iron screws or Allen keys in a plastic tool box and do the above procedure .you will see the Allen keys and the screws to vibrate during that process ,and as soon as the demagnetizer will be far them the vibration will be reduced and stopped at all. The Allen keys will not attract each other as before and all the iron screws , screwdrivers etc will not attract any small and light screws as before. Technicians who know that tip demagnetize all their small tools
Also watch technicians they always do that using smaller demag devices for the same reason.
So using a strong device you can demag the platter , the shaft and ....the idler wheel..! Yes it vibrates when you demagnetize it.
The only part you avoid to demag is the eddy brake magnet. So you can do the above far of the tt.
I believe that the platter ,shaft would love that procedure . The 124 is an amazingly sounding " musical instrument" and anything we do gives differences or improvements very easily. It can be improved a lot with all these tips and ideas our friends describe here and be the top sounding tt you can buy.
The most musical, dynamic, emotional and involving tt I know during the last 35-37 years I am in audio. It is an addiction and passion because hearing music through that tt is a huge pleasure and real enjoyment like nothing else. Most modern tts are sounding like CD players even are well made, even look beautiful and luxurious , impressive and glamorous . That TD 124 is beyond any expectations . The price of it ( for the moment) is nothing compared to what that tt gives to us..
I will try your advices regarding dampening David . Thank you!
I believe that we are "lucky " people as we own it and enjoy it's unlimited sound performance.
Regards
Ongakos
Yes of course I will describe it.
Head demagnetizer is a small device to demag a large and heavy platter.It will be not effective. There is a low price device like a large ring ,diameter about 10" made by copper solid core wire, AC in US 120v that the technicians of old CRT TV were using that in order to demag the screen main tube and refresh its condition. That ring has an on off push pull simple switch.
You place the platter on a table, you hold the demag ring with two hands on the platter. So platter and ring demagnetizer are touching each other. The center of the platter and the center of the demag ring are on the same vertical axis. Then you push the on button constantly for 1 minute and the demag is starting to work. Without to turn the on off button of the demag , you very very slowly pull the demag over the platter. When the demagnetizer is over the platter of about 3 feet or more ,then you push the on off button to off. The demag is done.
You can do experiment to any iron items first to see how it works. For example you can put iron screws or Allen keys in a plastic tool box and do the above procedure .you will see the Allen keys and the screws to vibrate during that process ,and as soon as the demagnetizer will be far them the vibration will be reduced and stopped at all. The Allen keys will not attract each other as before and all the iron screws , screwdrivers etc will not attract any small and light screws as before. Technicians who know that tip demagnetize all their small tools
Also watch technicians they always do that using smaller demag devices for the same reason.
So using a strong device you can demag the platter , the shaft and ....the idler wheel..! Yes it vibrates when you demagnetize it.
The only part you avoid to demag is the eddy brake magnet. So you can do the above far of the tt.
I believe that the platter ,shaft would love that procedure .
The 124 is an amazingly sounding " musical instrument" and anything we do gives differences or improvements very easily. It can be improved a lot with all these tips and ideas our friends describe here and be the top sounding tt you can buy. The most musical, dynamic, emotional and involving tt I know during the last 35-37 years I am in audio. It is an addiction and passion because hearing music through that tt is a huge pleasure and real enjoyment like nothing else. Most modern tts are sounding like CD players even are well made, even look beautiful and luxurious , impressive and glamorous . That TD 124 is beyond any expectations . The price of it ( for the moment) is nothing compared to what that tt gives to us..
I will try your advices regarding dampening David . Thank you!
I believe that we are "lucky " people as we own it and enjoy it's unlimited sound performance.
Regards
Ongakos
When I stop the 124 the stopping is now about 46 seconds.
When the platter stops I see that is turns to opposite direction for 1-2 seconds.
It is fully leveled and I would like to ask you if yours do the same
In the past it stopped after 2 minutes...and after some days in 65 seconds...
With new thrust nylatron plate and 3 drops of Schopper oil as he advised it stops in 45-46 seconds...
What is happening..? Higher friction? Wear of shaft and bearing bushings? Their condition seems very very good. I have heard that thorens specs mentioned stopping time of about 75 seconds. I do not know how critical is to have 45 seconds or more than those specs of thorens.
I think that closer to specs should be better than less. Any comments?
When the platter stops I see that is turns to opposite direction for 1-2 seconds.
It is fully leveled and I would like to ask you if yours do the same
In the past it stopped after 2 minutes...and after some days in 65 seconds...
With new thrust nylatron plate and 3 drops of Schopper oil as he advised it stops in 45-46 seconds...
What is happening..? Higher friction? Wear of shaft and bearing bushings? Their condition seems very very good. I have heard that thorens specs mentioned stopping time of about 75 seconds. I do not know how critical is to have 45 seconds or more than those specs of thorens.
I think that closer to specs should be better than less. Any comments?
I'm a little puzzled that it rotates in the opposite direction momentarily before stopping if I understood you correctly. The only scenario I can think of where this might happen requires two things to be true; the turntable is not level, and the platter is not balanced, and if zamac and not cast iron perhaps the platter is no longer true. (These platters can be bent out of level)
I don't get the obsession with coasting time that so many people have. At one point my tables coasted down in about 125 seconds, and now because of changes in lubricant it is under 60 seconds. I don't worry about it.
I prefer running the bearing wet, my TD-124/II came to me untouched, almost unused and completely unmaintained since installation (it was not running when I got it) and when disassembled the bearing well was full of lubricant to just above the lower bushing - so I based my recommendation on that fact.
I don't get the obsession with coasting time that so many people have. At one point my tables coasted down in about 125 seconds, and now because of changes in lubricant it is under 60 seconds. I don't worry about it.
I prefer running the bearing wet, my TD-124/II came to me untouched, almost unused and completely unmaintained since installation (it was not running when I got it) and when disassembled the bearing well was full of lubricant to just above the lower bushing - so I based my recommendation on that fact.
Hi Kevin,
Thanks for your comments
The iron platter I have. when completely stops ,then I see a too too slow turn to the opposite direction for a second. It is precisely leveled .
I will try to lubricate the bearing with the quantity you advised and see the results .
I always had a question my mind regarding the bushings of the bearing. If could be correct to put the bearing itself (without removing the two bushings) in hot oil with the required temperature in order old oil to come out and the new oil to fill the cleaned pores of the bushings. It might simpler than to remove them and do that hot oil procedure . But maybe because of the materials different metals construction it might a be danger to cause any damage to the bushings or to the bearing housing.
Thanks for your comments
The iron platter I have. when completely stops ,then I see a too too slow turn to the opposite direction for a second. It is precisely leveled .
I will try to lubricate the bearing with the quantity you advised and see the results .
I always had a question my mind regarding the bushings of the bearing. If could be correct to put the bearing itself (without removing the two bushings) in hot oil with the required temperature in order old oil to come out and the new oil to fill the cleaned pores of the bushings. It might simpler than to remove them and do that hot oil procedure . But maybe because of the materials different metals construction it might a be danger to cause any damage to the bushings or to the bearing housing.
If you are going to the trouble to pull the bushings out it would be best to simply replace them. There is a single Spanish seller on eBay who sells excellent bushings for this, I have installed a number of pairs of them. They are quite inexpensive.
I would not put the housing in a bath of hot oil.
I would not put the housing in a bath of hot oil.
Good idea just to put new bushings as these will bring the bearing to a new condition. Are these recommended bushings oilite type? So if I buy them have I to put them in a bath with hot oil? Or after installing them in the bearing just to put oil to all their surfaces? Could you please let me know who is that seller at eBay in order to proceed to purchase them? Thanking you in advance for your advices
Have you ever tried to put any soft absorbing o rings in between each of the 3 armboard screws? They might isolate the armboard from the chassis and reduce chassis vibrations to the arm and cartridge .
Have you ever tried to put any soft absorbing o rings in between each of the 3 armboard screws? They might isolate the armboard from the chassis and reduce chassis vibrations to the arm and cartridge .
Since eBay links no longer seem to work here, search on this item # instead: 271035657025
They are oilite bearings, and should be immersed in hot oil and then allowed to cool completely before installation.
I would not recommend isolating the arm board from the chassis based on experience with the rubber grommets on the bed plates of SME 3009 and 3012 Series II where removing them resulted in greatly improved bass quality.
They are oilite bearings, and should be immersed in hot oil and then allowed to cool completely before installation.
I would not recommend isolating the arm board from the chassis based on experience with the rubber grommets on the bed plates of SME 3009 and 3012 Series II where removing them resulted in greatly improved bass quality.
Thank you very much Kevin
Yes I agree regarding rubber grommets as I had an SME 3009 and had removed them. It sounded much better without them..I should remember that experience and do not think that isolating the armboard could be an experiment that could give some good results..
I just bought from eBay some audiosilente parts as idler wheel set with o rings , Teflon ptfe bearing thrust plates set and rubber + silicon platter discs. I think these guys know the 124 well .
I see also their "made in Japan " silicon mushrooms and motor grommets. My mushrooms from shopper have been aged and surface is opened around them...When I touch the plinth I can hear the vibration ,so I think is time to change them with a better material like silicon I think ,which does not age by the time as rubber. Is that a good upgrade ? I think that sound will change as always happens with TD124. I hope for the better.
I am thanking you again for your time and your valuable advices . You are expert so everybody is asking you
All the best
Yes I agree regarding rubber grommets as I had an SME 3009 and had removed them. It sounded much better without them..I should remember that experience and do not think that isolating the armboard could be an experiment that could give some good results..
I just bought from eBay some audiosilente parts as idler wheel set with o rings , Teflon ptfe bearing thrust plates set and rubber + silicon platter discs. I think these guys know the 124 well .
I see also their "made in Japan " silicon mushrooms and motor grommets. My mushrooms from shopper have been aged and surface is opened around them...When I touch the plinth I can hear the vibration ,so I think is time to change them with a better material like silicon I think ,which does not age by the time as rubber. Is that a good upgrade ? I think that sound will change as always happens with TD124. I hope for the better.
I am thanking you again for your time and your valuable advices . You are expert so everybody is asking you
All the best
Might I suggest after the platter has completely stopped, placing a very small piece of tape on the platter adjacent to something like headshell at rest? Run it again for a few minutes, turn it off and see if the tape marker returns to approximately the same place.