Both my tables have upgraded thrust plate kits, and I also have silicon nitride ball bearings for both which I have yet to install. I thought the upgrade worthwhile - I believe the ultimate rumble level dropped slightly (did not measure), but they do not leak which is a common problem with the stock set up if you remove and reinstall spindles on a regular basis.
Good point. I've yet to remove the bottom cap, so the original seal is fine, but with replacement of the bushings coming up, that'll be history. I know there is a thrust plate/seal replacement kit without the new cap or nitride ball. Is that what you did, and found a separate source for the nitride ball?
I have tons of parts and tend to buy on a speculative/curiosity oriented approach since I have done a number of these for other people. IMO the biggest win is getting rid of that little stamped steel cap and replacing it with something much more substantial. I have used bronze, and stainless steel. Prefer the bronze, I machined it in order to use a steel thrust plate. (The original seller had no clue that steel ball bearings on bronze is a bad idea, the ball in short order will wear a big recess into the cap.. )
Measure everything first as you disassemble so that when you assemble the new spindle and bearing assembly you can get the spindle height right. (Some minor machining may be required to the new cap.) No one seems to pay any attention to this on eBay.
There are all sorts of thrust pads to play with as well, the stock nylatron type is quiet, but I now use mild steel which obviously wears better over time.
Measure everything first as you disassemble so that when you assemble the new spindle and bearing assembly you can get the spindle height right. (Some minor machining may be required to the new cap.) No one seems to pay any attention to this on eBay.
There are all sorts of thrust pads to play with as well, the stock nylatron type is quiet, but I now use mild steel which obviously wears better over time.
I may be reading too much into your response, but it suggests if I don't have access to a machinist's metal lathe (which I don't), I'd be wise to avoid any of the current third party eBay solutions that offer a new cap, regardless of alloy. That is, assuming I want to maintain correct spindle height, which of course I do.
Kevinkr - feeling a little foolish here, perhaps a senior moment, but as I've been doing thread searches I'm not only coming across postings of yours that deal with what I've been asking most recently, but noticing you were often responding to me. Perhaps this time around it'll all sink in . . .
Nah, with bronze you are talking about a relatively simple process with fine sand paper and maybe lapping film if you are that detail oriented. Just need a very flat surface and some patience. Yes I have both a metal working mill and a lathe, and used neither in this activity.. (I'm not a good machinist)
Incidentally you will find this true of almost all parts made by everyone except perhaps (and maybe not even) excluding Schopper. The fact that there are so many relatively reasonable sources for parts that will work is a big change from a couple of decades ago.
You make do and improvise..
Incidentally you will find this true of almost all parts made by everyone except perhaps (and maybe not even) excluding Schopper. The fact that there are so many relatively reasonable sources for parts that will work is a big change from a couple of decades ago.
You make do and improvise..
It's all good.. 
I should mention that these caps generally have a stepped pad that fits well into the bottom of the bearing well. Chose the thrust pad you are going to use and modify the cap so that spindle height is identical or with a few thousandths of the original measurements. You can use combinations of different thrust pads as shims if you want to change things later.
I should mention that these caps generally have a stepped pad that fits well into the bottom of the bearing well. Chose the thrust pad you are going to use and modify the cap so that spindle height is identical or with a few thousandths of the original measurements. You can use combinations of different thrust pads as shims if you want to change things later.
It's all good..
I should mention that these caps generally have a stepped pad that fits well into the bottom of the bearing well. Chose the thrust pad you are going to use and modify the cap so that spindle height is identical or with a few thousandths of the original measurements. You can use combinations of different thrust pads as shims if you want to change things later.
OK, looked at closeups of the components and understand what you're saying here. Two kits are available that I know of - one appears to be a modification of one you've purchased before from Australia. It has what appears to be a soft steel thrust pad, but does not include a replacement ball bearing. I've asked the seller for specifics on the thrust pad material and spindle height variations (perhaps things have improved in that regard) - meantime, are you running a silicon nitride ball on the soft steel? If so, thanks to one of Steve's old posts, I've got the spec, so shouldn't be hard to run one down.
Ok, I'm missing something here. Bronze cap + bronze gunmetal thrust pad + soft steel or nylatron thrust pad+ oil seal? Why bother with the bronze gunmetal thrust pad at all? Perhaps I need to study the construction more than I have.
Bronze, gunmetal or stainless steel cap, mild steel, nylatron or hardened steel thrust pad..
OK, got it. We just lost (or added) something between MO and MA yesterday. Now here's one for you. Have you ever experimented with heating a receiving shaft to slightly increase diameter prior to pressing in a new bushing? I ask because while one would think Thorens had the tolerances just the way they wanted them and thus the pressure exerted during press fitting would have been pretty well controlled, your own experience with bushings sourced from different vendors suggests there might be times when O.D. of the bushing might be enough greater than OEM where greater than OEM insertion force is necessary, potentially resulting in I.D. variances, particularly at the insertion point.
However, what if one were to, say raise the shaft temp about 25 degrees (no problem on a sunny day at the moment). Would it be possible that the piece would expand just enough to mitigate the pressure placed on the bushing during insertion?
I'm thinking unless someone comes along who has tried it and knows it works (or makes things worse) that the only way to find out is to give it a try. Heating a part to aide in removal of an old bushing wouldn't have the same effect, obviously, probably would just make removal more difficult, assuming the bushing would expand more/faster than the steel shaft.
I should say this came to me in part thanks to a trick I read about that works quite well when you're faced with trying to remove a stubborn brass pulley from a steel shaft - simply place the tip of a soldering iron on the pulley near the shaft. It works and it works very fast.
These are the kind of dreams I have, by the way, despite having been forced to take zzquil to get me anywhere near a deep sleep stage! I always did my best (or strangest) work while asleep.
Actually the problem I have with bushings is almost always the reverse of what you describe, they fit the internal bore of the bearing assembly too loosely.
I have encountered the reverse situation with freshly purchased after market replacement bearing assemblies where the ID of the bushings was slightly too small for an OEM spindle. I hardly ever buy these as they are quite expensive. Fixing them is a problem.
I just press the bushings in and reinstall the spindle. I then check to see if the bushings have been displaced due to hydraulic pressure as the spindle settles. If they moved probably best to find another supplier..
I have encountered the reverse situation with freshly purchased after market replacement bearing assemblies where the ID of the bushings was slightly too small for an OEM spindle. I hardly ever buy these as they are quite expensive. Fixing them is a problem.
I just press the bushings in and reinstall the spindle. I then check to see if the bushings have been displaced due to hydraulic pressure as the spindle settles. If they moved probably best to find another supplier..
OK, got it. New main spindle bronze end cap replacement kit has been ordered. Lots of other parts should be arriving soon. New strobe mirror has arrived and fits very nicely.
Inserting bushings
Hello, just catching up on what I've missed lately.
Some great threads since I last logged-in, and welcome to the new people.
This might have been covered, so my apologies in advance if it has been.
My mechanical engineer father taught me that when inserting a bushing, some time in the freezer will shrink the OD enough to make it much easier, in some cases, this is the only way. Of course, there are variations on this, such as heating the part the bearing is being press fitted into, and, in some cases, freezing the insert also.
Of course, I don't expect any of you to heat the main casting on your TD124 for obvious reasons, but this might help some of you.
Hello, just catching up on what I've missed lately.
Some great threads since I last logged-in, and welcome to the new people.
This might have been covered, so my apologies in advance if it has been.
My mechanical engineer father taught me that when inserting a bushing, some time in the freezer will shrink the OD enough to make it much easier, in some cases, this is the only way. Of course, there are variations on this, such as heating the part the bearing is being press fitted into, and, in some cases, freezing the insert also.
Of course, I don't expect any of you to heat the main casting on your TD124 for obvious reasons, but this might help some of you.
Edit,
I've been a member here for years, now I am under a new name, (old name Geneml) and I'm a new member. Was there a crash?
I've been a member here for years, now I am under a new name, (old name Geneml) and I'm a new member. Was there a crash?
Welcome back! It sounds like you've put into practice what your father taught you with regard to pressing bushings. It was an idea that came to me, but not one I'd actually tried. As Kevinkr has mentioned, replacement bushings being too tight hasn't been an issue, but being too loose has been. Still my thought was that anything that reduces the insertion pressure needed might also reduce the possibility of bushing deformation, which is my concern. Perhaps what I should do is invest in a good micrometer to fully evaluate the inner circumference after insertion.
Jim Neal
Jim Neal
Shrinking a bearing
Thanks, I'm glad to be back.
Kevin, I think I remember something about the board being upgraded, or crashing. Is that the reason why I am a newbie now?
Anyway, before you order a bearing, you should request that the seller supply the OD of the bearing, and then of course, check it against the ID of the hole your inserting it in, just to make sure there is not a bad mis-match.
Thanks, I'm glad to be back.
Kevin, I think I remember something about the board being upgraded, or crashing. Is that the reason why I am a newbie now?
Anyway, before you order a bearing, you should request that the seller supply the OD of the bearing, and then of course, check it against the ID of the hole your inserting it in, just to make sure there is not a bad mis-match.