Restoring and Improving A Thorens TD-124 MKII

tip maintenance

I'm the last one here to be posting advice about soldering but I have made some observations that have, so far, gone unsaid.

One is tip maintenance. Regardless of the soldering iron you have, the tips wear out. In my case I have 3 different irons and with all of the soldering I've been doing in recent years I've managed to wear them through.

At this point my most usable iron is a 25 watt Weller (pencil grip style) from late 1970's vintage. The tips are hollow and with all of the heat pouring through them they do burn through. I was able to find replacement tips for the Weller over ebay for less than $20. And a new tip is sooooo much better to work with than one that is on its last legs. The fresh tip gives better control over the job quality.

I've a Hakko-Presto No. 981. ( pistol grip style). It seems impossible to replace a tip on this one. It's a two speed model. 20watt - 130watt. The 20 watt setting seems too low except for the lower temperature solder. The 130 watt setting is clearly too hot because it accelerates tip wear exponentially. I've stopped using this one for apparent reasons.

I have a Weller clone (Wilmar, made in Taiwan) purchased in the mid 1990's. Actually, it looks very retro. A pistol-grip type with a massive body. Tips are of the older style. It has a tiny light bulb on its front that lights when you pull the trigger. It doesn't state its wattage but I can't say I like it.

At this point, my better (if that's the word) looking jobs are being accomplished with the old Weller 25 watt. I'll stick with that and keep a supply of new tips available.

Fwiw, I've found some Cardas Eutectic Silver solder that has a workable melting point. Purchase over ebay. The Cardas Eutectic (higher lead content) does lay down easier than many other types I've used.

And. above all, it should be noted that I have received no education or training in the use of a soldering iron. ..... which makes me dangerous!

fwiw, m2c and ymmv are advisable.

-Steve
 
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I typically use 60/40 SnPb or 62/36/2 SnPbAg and fairly infrequently 63/37 SnPb eutectic solder. Over literally hundreds of thousands of solder joints on pcbs and p2p wiring this has worked consistently well for me. I use Weller WTCTP series irons which are 60W irons with temp specific tips (700 °F, available range 600 - 800°F) at home and a variety of electronic TC irons at work. I heat the work and flow the solder into the joint.. No lead free solder at home or work, although I have used Pb free solder in the past. (The medical devices I work on are RoHS exempt)

I also use a big Weller gun where more heat is required, this maxes out at 140W and works very well IMHO.

I was trained in High Rel soldering early in my career (dawn of time) when I worked for GTE Labs, and have a lot of soldering experience.
 
One other question, is it 60% Tin 40% Lead Solder that I should use or 60% Lead 40% Tin?
Don't use 40:60.
That's what plumbers use to make a wiped joint on lead piping.
40:60 has a wide pasty range (183°C/238°C).
Preferably use 63:37, rather than 60:40.
Use the eutectic for electrical joints. It has no pasty range.
Wiki shows this for 63:37 eutectic:
Sn63, ASTM63A, ASTM63B. Common in electronics; exceptional tinning and wetting properties, also good for stainless steel. One of the most common solders. Low cost and good bonding properties. Used in both SMT and through-hole electronics. Rapidly dissolves gold and silver, not recommended for those.[21] Sn60Pb40 is slightly cheaper and is often used instead for cost reasons, as the melting point difference is insignificant in practice. On slow cooling gives slightly brighter joints than Sn60Pb40
 
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Today I installed one of Mirko's extended main bearings on the MKII.

No measurements to share, I'm not sure I could make meaningful measurements relating to the differences I am pretty sure I hear between a well fettled OEM bearing and spindle with a modified aftermarket end cap and the extended bearing.

This bearing and spindle is about twice the length of the stock assembly and was I believe built to somewhat tighter tolerances than the stock bearing. The upper bushing is substantially longer, but I can't tell how much longer.

It's all very nicely machined and finished.

Drag is substantially higher which means that I was able to back off the eddy current brake to the extent that it no longer generates any significant noise.

The bearing is very quiet, probably a few dB better than the OEM in tip top shape.

I can't put my finger on it, and unexpectedly this bearing seems to result in a pretty substantial improvement in sound quality - it just seems more focused, more detailed, bass is tighter and better controlled than before. Imaging is positively impacted as well.

I was not expecting to hear anything at all and I apologize for the subjective comments as I have nothing objective to pin them on.. I can only conjecture that the longer bearing contact area couples the platter to the chassis better, and the tighter tolerances result in less modulation by the platter precessing about the center of rotation. Perhaps the bearing noise spectrum is different/reduced amplitude. I don't have any method currently for determining this.
 
Today I installed one of Mirko's extended main bearings on the MKII.

No measurements to share, I'm not sure I could make meaningful measurements relating to the differences I am pretty sure I hear between a well fettled OEM bearing and spindle with a modified aftermarket end cap and the extended bearing.

This bearing and spindle is about twice the length of the stock assembly and was I believe built to somewhat tighter tolerances than the stock bearing. The upper bushing is substantially longer, but I can't tell how much longer.

It's all very nicely machined and finished.

Drag is substantially higher which means that I was able to back off the eddy current brake to the extent that it no longer generates any significant noise.

The bearing is very quiet, probably a few dB better than the OEM in tip top shape.

I can't put my finger on it, and unexpectedly this bearing seems to result in a pretty substantial improvement in sound quality - it just seems more focused, more detailed, bass is tighter and better controlled than before. Imaging is positively impacted as well.

I was not expecting to hear anything at all and I apologize for the subjective comments as I have nothing objective to pin them on.. I can only conjecture that the longer bearing contact area couples the platter to the chassis better, and the tighter tolerances result in less modulation by the platter precessing about the center of rotation. Perhaps the bearing noise spectrum is different/reduced amplitude. I don't have any method currently for determining this.

I'm not surprised that you heard a marked improvement because the Mirko bearing features a much longer shaft/housing. It reduces the effect known as micro-rocking by effectively reducing the angle of the rock.

Clearance between shaft and bushing. Say .0007 inches. Allows the shaft to rock about its fulcrum (thrust pad/bearing ball) way down at the bottom and up at the top of the bearing we can see a few 'tenths of teeter.
Let's say we measured this using a dial indicator so we know we have .0002" of lateral motion at the top of the bearing shaft. and the distance from the thrust pad to the top edge of the top bushing is 4 inches.

But if you have a bearing shaft that is 8 inches from the thrust to the top of the upper bushing...and you have the same running clearance that allows as much as .0002" of lateral wobble, the angle of the teeter is reduced. And with the platter bolted on, then the amount of micro-rocking out at the perimeter of the platter is greatly reduced compared to the oem bearing that has the same amount of bush/shaft clearance.

-Steve
 
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What if you rest the cart needle point directly onto the chassis?
Would you get enough vibration signal from the cart to measure?
Could you use a "flat" pre-amp instead of a RIAA pre-amp to get a more useful vibration signal?

I use linear tracking tonearms which won't allow the stylus to rest on the chassis, plus I am not sure what that would tell me since I don't have a frame of reference to compare it against unfortunately. I'd also be nervous about potential cantilever snapping mishaps with the Windfeld..
 
Today I installed one of Mirko's extended main bearings on the MKII.

No measurements to share, I'm not sure I could make meaningful measurements relating to the differences I am pretty sure I hear between a well fettled OEM bearing and spindle with a modified aftermarket end cap and the extended bearing.

This bearing and spindle is about twice the length of the stock assembly and was I believe built to somewhat tighter tolerances than the stock bearing. The upper bushing is substantially longer, but I can't tell how much longer.

It's all very nicely machined and finished.

Drag is substantially higher which means that I was able to back off the eddy current brake to the extent that it no longer generates any significant noise.

The bearing is very quiet, probably a few dB better than the OEM in tip top shape.

I can't put my finger on it, and unexpectedly this bearing seems to result in a pretty substantial improvement in sound quality - it just seems more focused, more detailed, bass is tighter and better controlled than before. Imaging is positively impacted as well.

I was not expecting to hear anything at all and I apologize for the subjective comments as I have nothing objective to pin them on.. I can only conjecture that the longer bearing contact area couples the platter to the chassis better, and the tighter tolerances result in less modulation by the platter precessing about the center of rotation. Perhaps the bearing noise spectrum is different/reduced amplitude. I don't have any method currently for determining this.


What is the total length of the new bearing? And would you say it's a worthwhile upgrade?
 
Definitely a worthwhile upgrade IMHO, it's quite expensive however. I don't know the exact length but it is the longest bearing option Mirko has available for the 124.

This would not be one of the first mods I would do on this table, once everything else is right it would seem to be worthwhile.

Hi Kevin,

Does it look somewhat similar to this extended main bearing by STS? Thanks for the feedback on the Mirko bearing..

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