VISHAY.
Hi,
Vishay make a wide range of resistors,the S102 range AKA bulkfoils are the better sounding ones.
By which I don't mean to say the Rikken are bad,I would use them in different places as I would the bulkfoils though.
That decription would fit the Holco H range IME. (the non-magnetic ones,that is).
Cheers,
Hi,
Vishay make a wide range of resistors,the S102 range AKA bulkfoils are the better sounding ones.
By which I don't mean to say the Rikken are bad,I would use them in different places as I would the bulkfoils though.
That decription would fit the Holco H range IME. (the non-magnetic ones,that is).
Cheers,
HOLCO
Hi,
Dorkus,
Good to see familiar names again.
All I can say is that these Holcos (H4 and H2 range) replaced Roederstein Resistas for anode Rs,cathode Rs and gridleak Rs in my own gear from preamp to amps up.
I found the result rather too lush and dark sounding compared to what I was used to hear.
Cheers,
Hi,
Dorkus,
Good to see familiar names again.
All I can say is that these Holcos (H4 and H2 range) replaced Roederstein Resistas for anode Rs,cathode Rs and gridleak Rs in my own gear from preamp to amps up.
I found the result rather too lush and dark sounding compared to what I was used to hear.
Cheers,
Elso: Processing can make a large difference. For example, you can take the same semiconductor die, put it into a different package, and the sound will be quite different.
OTOH, if you didn't hear any difference between a standard metal-film resistor and a VSH, I would just forget about it. No matter how wonderful other builders may claim certain components are, if you can't make them work to your advantage and your tastes, you are better off focusing on the aspects and components that result in sonic benefits for _your_ circuits and _your_ tastes. No sense in cluttering up your life with details that you cannot take advantage of.
Frank:
>The Vishay S102 bulkfoils have a rep for sounding as close to no resistor at all.<
I reckon that the S102s _do_ have a distinctive sound. In fact, there are quite a few Japanese builders that don't like the S102s. If nothing else, this demonstrates again that no single component is suitable for all tastes and all circuits.
>I don't mean to say the Rikken are bad, I would use them in different places as I would the bulkfoils though.<
I completely agree. Both sound (and measure) quite differently, and for different reasons, both are useful for audio circuits.
regards, jonathan carr
OTOH, if you didn't hear any difference between a standard metal-film resistor and a VSH, I would just forget about it. No matter how wonderful other builders may claim certain components are, if you can't make them work to your advantage and your tastes, you are better off focusing on the aspects and components that result in sonic benefits for _your_ circuits and _your_ tastes. No sense in cluttering up your life with details that you cannot take advantage of.
Frank:
>The Vishay S102 bulkfoils have a rep for sounding as close to no resistor at all.<
I reckon that the S102s _do_ have a distinctive sound. In fact, there are quite a few Japanese builders that don't like the S102s. If nothing else, this demonstrates again that no single component is suitable for all tastes and all circuits.
>I don't mean to say the Rikken are bad, I would use them in different places as I would the bulkfoils though.<
I completely agree. Both sound (and measure) quite differently, and for different reasons, both are useful for audio circuits.
regards, jonathan carr
DIRECTIVE RESISTORS.
Hi,
Ahem...if they're not than we have ourselves a little problem...
And I'm pretty certain no manufacture of ressitors care about directive of their elements and leadout wires.
The good news is that after burn in it really doesn't matter.
This is not the case with filmcaps however!
Jonathan,
You're absolutely correct,they do have a sound of their own.
What doesn't?
Still as a series R they seem to exhibit more neutrality than anything else I tried so far.
I still need to put the "nudes" to test though...
If you have other Rs in mind worth trying,I'd sure love to give them a try.
All,
For those of you working with voltages higher than say your regular transistor amp the voltage rating and wattage of these resistors have to be kept in mind.
Not to mention the self inductance of wirewound resistors where none inductive ones (a la Ayrton Perry windings) are to be preferred.
Cheers,
Hi,
Ahem...if they're not than we have ourselves a little problem...
And I'm pretty certain no manufacture of ressitors care about directive of their elements and leadout wires.
The good news is that after burn in it really doesn't matter.
This is not the case with filmcaps however!
Jonathan,
You're absolutely correct,they do have a sound of their own.
What doesn't?
Still as a series R they seem to exhibit more neutrality than anything else I tried so far.
I still need to put the "nudes" to test though...
If you have other Rs in mind worth trying,I'd sure love to give them a try.
All,
For those of you working with voltages higher than say your regular transistor amp the voltage rating and wattage of these resistors have to be kept in mind.
Not to mention the self inductance of wirewound resistors where none inductive ones (a la Ayrton Perry windings) are to be preferred.
Cheers,
frank:
>They seem to exhibit more neutrality than anything else I tried so far.<
Emphasis on "so far".
>I still need to put the "nudes" to test though...<
If you can obtain and compare identical values of S102s and TX2352s, it will be interesting to compare our respective impressions.
regards, jonathan carr
>They seem to exhibit more neutrality than anything else I tried so far.<
Emphasis on "so far".
>I still need to put the "nudes" to test though...<
If you can obtain and compare identical values of S102s and TX2352s, it will be interesting to compare our respective impressions.
regards, jonathan carr
------------------------------------------------------------Peter Daniel said:
You must be kidding me. I have already enough of directivness in capacitors.
Is the lettering or color coding at least consistent with a direction? So what are the major differences?
Why don't you try it and then decide if I am kidding you. For critical use, I actually try in both directions. Labelling is a different issue which you have to determine from batch to batch. There is a bigger consistent difference in resistors than capacitors, at least without burn in. I have not so far considered the effect of burn in.
If you have this kind of attitude to comments by others, why should other people believe your observations?
Re: PIECE DE RESISTANCE.
Two ways.
For sometime, I have experimented with resistor type and direction for buffer resistors from opamps and I found a difference (from being nice and being unaccetable). This is usually the last step in an upgrade and I have accumulated enough experience to choose empirically resistor type. The differences are as great as changing coupling capacitors which I try to avoid.
I also carried out listening tests on a four inout passive preamp with 3.3k ouput resistors, mounting them in R,L pairs in opposite directions with two types of resistors. The differences were quite obvious.
---------------------------------------------fdegrove said:Hi,
How do you actually test this?
Cheers,
Two ways.
For sometime, I have experimented with resistor type and direction for buffer resistors from opamps and I found a difference (from being nice and being unaccetable). This is usually the last step in an upgrade and I have accumulated enough experience to choose empirically resistor type. The differences are as great as changing coupling capacitors which I try to avoid.
I also carried out listening tests on a four inout passive preamp with 3.3k ouput resistors, mounting them in R,L pairs in opposite directions with two types of resistors. The differences were quite obvious.
fmak said:
I am bit disappointed that you didn't notice a different tone in my reaction, which supposed to be facetios in character. I take seriously all comments of that type and definitely will test the resistors to see the difference.
"You must be kidding" was directed to the fact that one can easily deal with direction in capacitors, especially when it can be measured and not too many caps are usually used in an average circuit. The resistors however, are totally different cap of tea. I always placed them the same way in the circuits (according to lettering or code), however never bothered to check the sound in two different orientations, it's just seemed like a lot of work and I always doubted the actual difference. And now you say that there is a "bigger consistent difference in resistors than capacitors". I can only hope that you are kidding me again, but something tells me that you might be actually right.
REIECE DE RESISTANCE.
Hi,
But how can this be?
While I perfectly understand that wires are directive,how can,say a MF resistor end up being directive?
Surely,if you consider the total lenght of the leadout wires that is left in the circuit this should have neglectable/inaudible impact on the sound?
If so,we're left with the resistive element itself.
Now,if you consider how this is applied to the core element I fail to see how this ends up being directive?
This has me puzzled...
Cheers,
IECE DE RESISTANCE.Hi,
But how can this be?
While I perfectly understand that wires are directive,how can,say a MF resistor end up being directive?
Surely,if you consider the total lenght of the leadout wires that is left in the circuit this should have neglectable/inaudible impact on the sound?
If so,we're left with the resistive element itself.
Now,if you consider how this is applied to the core element I fail to see how this ends up being directive?
This has me puzzled...
Cheers,
That Directional Thing Again....
Hi Peter,
Years ago I did some brief testing to determine directivity in resistors, but due to some other variables I did not come to a solid conclusion at the time, although I do fully expect it to be true.
Another of my untried but thought about experiments is to place two resistors in series or parallel in reversed directions, more especially in circuit positions where they are exposed to AC signal - input, output and NFB paths.
I dare say that this might be well revealled in your gainclone, and due to the minimum of external components this ought to be a clear experiment, and one that I meant to suggest to you a good while back when you annouced it.
I expect that this is a factor in the variance in your gainclone examples.
I have also experimented with making conductors non-directional by using two wires twisted together, and the strands in reverse directions in AC positions and found it to make a significant difference.
Eric.
PS - You mention cones under your gainclones - have you tried springs ?.
A colleague reported to me today that he got REALLY good results with springs under his CDP.
Hi Peter,
Years ago I did some brief testing to determine directivity in resistors, but due to some other variables I did not come to a solid conclusion at the time, although I do fully expect it to be true.
Another of my untried but thought about experiments is to place two resistors in series or parallel in reversed directions, more especially in circuit positions where they are exposed to AC signal - input, output and NFB paths.
I dare say that this might be well revealled in your gainclone, and due to the minimum of external components this ought to be a clear experiment, and one that I meant to suggest to you a good while back when you annouced it.
I expect that this is a factor in the variance in your gainclone examples.
I have also experimented with making conductors non-directional by using two wires twisted together, and the strands in reverse directions in AC positions and found it to make a significant difference.
Eric.
PS - You mention cones under your gainclones - have you tried springs ?.
A colleague reported to me today that he got REALLY good results with springs under his CDP.
DIRECTIONS.
Hi,
Not just me but the entire audio industry I would think...
I made life a bit easier on myself and let A.J.van den Hul do the talking:
FUSION AND HYBRIDS
Cheers,
Hi,
Not just me but the entire audio industry I would think...
I made life a bit easier on myself and let A.J.van den Hul do the talking:
FUSION AND HYBRIDS
Cheers,
So I did some tests and here's what I found out. There is definitely a difference. It is not very big one, but it's enough to present a different tonal balance. I tried Rikken, Vishay VTA and old Holco. All those resistors sounded a bit different depending on orientation. The difference is probably best described as one direction is more lean and dull sounding, the other is more open, with more depth and better highs extention. What I found, mostly with Rikkens, is that in one direction the highs were somewhat masked by the rest of the spectrum and were not really defined on their own, while in the opposite direction, they were presented in much better way, with distinctive pace and resolution.
As to comparing Vishay VTA 55 and old Holco, they sounded very similar, with Holcos more dry and without air in the highs, while Vishay sounding more refined. Both confirmed my previuos findings of somwhat mellow character without going to extremes in any direction. Rikkens, OTOH were more refreshing, with highs dominating, yet not bothering in any way. Depending on the balance of the rest of the system, all those resistors might find their place.
Here's the pic of a simple test circuit, I did in one minute. I encourage anybody to try it, you don't even have to solder, just put the resistor in and it will stay in place by spring action. I used 10K values at the input of my Aleph X, but any other value is OK. I had 20K Vishays, yet I could easily compare them to 10k resistors and volume didn't change by much.
As to comparing Vishay VTA 55 and old Holco, they sounded very similar, with Holcos more dry and without air in the highs, while Vishay sounding more refined. Both confirmed my previuos findings of somwhat mellow character without going to extremes in any direction. Rikkens, OTOH were more refreshing, with highs dominating, yet not bothering in any way. Depending on the balance of the rest of the system, all those resistors might find their place.
Here's the pic of a simple test circuit, I did in one minute. I encourage anybody to try it, you don't even have to solder, just put the resistor in and it will stay in place by spring action.
I used 10K values at the input of my Aleph X, but any other value is OK. I had 20K Vishays, yet I could easily compare them to 10k resistors and volume didn't change by much.Attachments
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