So, here's how it all turned out.
Firstly, they sound great. Very balanced and they integrate really well with the existing crossover. Now, that's not to say that had Mission designed these speakers around this driver they would necessarily have chosen the exact same crossover points and attenuation level, but then again, it does sound really well integrated. I feel no need to attenuate or to change the crossover points. I will do a frequency sweep soon.
Here's how I went about it. Remember that my criteria were:
1. Don't damage the drivers, or cut the aluminium frame/ surrounds.
Which lead me to imagine I would do the "rout the wood" technique, but this leaves too much of a gap between the front of the driver and the plastic frame, which could really mess with the sound waves, and looks weird. So....
2. Make them sound as well as they possibly can, fitting tightly to the plastic surround/ cover.
So, I carved the plastic surround to fit the drivers, which meant carving them right through on 4 corners of the drivers, leading to four holes. These aren't 4 holes to the cabinet - they are just aesthetic, and with the grilles on, are invisible.
For my criteria, this method worked well and I recommend it to those with similar aims.
Firstly, they sound great. Very balanced and they integrate really well with the existing crossover. Now, that's not to say that had Mission designed these speakers around this driver they would necessarily have chosen the exact same crossover points and attenuation level, but then again, it does sound really well integrated. I feel no need to attenuate or to change the crossover points. I will do a frequency sweep soon.
Here's how I went about it. Remember that my criteria were:
1. Don't damage the drivers, or cut the aluminium frame/ surrounds.
Which lead me to imagine I would do the "rout the wood" technique, but this leaves too much of a gap between the front of the driver and the plastic frame, which could really mess with the sound waves, and looks weird. So....
2. Make them sound as well as they possibly can, fitting tightly to the plastic surround/ cover.
So, I carved the plastic surround to fit the drivers, which meant carving them right through on 4 corners of the drivers, leading to four holes. These aren't 4 holes to the cabinet - they are just aesthetic, and with the grilles on, are invisible.
For my criteria, this method worked well and I recommend it to those with similar aims.
Attachments
The finished result. Note that the speaker cones fit snugly inside the surround, as the originals, which I feel is important. This is only achievable by either cutting the driver aluminium surround, or by carving the plastic surround piece. You can see the aluminium driver surround both through the 4 new holes, and also where the grill pins go through. The grille pins needed to be halved in size to fit too. Easily done. In total, about an hour's work for both speakers.
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Thanks! Yes, it may not be everybody's best solution, but I had to invent a third way, as neither of the other methods on the internet seemed as good to me, for my spec.
Oh, I should also mention, should anybody want to replicate this, I used a Dremel rotary tool (a cheap copy actually) with those super fragile cut off wheels, about 30mm in diameter, which break far too easily as they're so thin. I got through about 6 of them, rather tediously, doing this job. They're cheap, but replacing them every 5 minutes is a pita. I also used a sharp 10mm wide chisel to neaten things up.
Oh, I should also mention, should anybody want to replicate this, I used a Dremel rotary tool (a cheap copy actually) with those super fragile cut off wheels, about 30mm in diameter, which break far too easily as they're so thin. I got through about 6 of them, rather tediously, doing this job. They're cheap, but replacing them every 5 minutes is a pita. I also used a sharp 10mm wide chisel to neaten things up.
Lucas, am very excited to see this thread. I have a pair of 782s that have been in storage for a number of years when I was living elsewhere. One driver was replaced under warranty earlier in their life, but I suspect that when I unpack them again in a month or so I will need to deal with the other original driver. Perhaps it'll be best to replace both drivers with these HM130Z12.
I've not done DIY audio before, so this will be an interesting challenge. But this is some good insight to start from (and I have some more skilled relatives who can likely help me not make a complete mess).
They're a nice speaker overall and I'd rather repair and use than throw things away.
I've not done DIY audio before, so this will be an interesting challenge. But this is some good insight to start from (and I have some more skilled relatives who can likely help me not make a complete mess).
They're a nice speaker overall and I'd rather repair and use than throw things away.
Hi Every one
New user here. As all of you had the same issue but rather than butchering the speakers I managed to fit midrange drivers which were originally produced for B&W and there is no need to become a carpenter to fit them and personally the sound is better too and sharper.
Originally produced for Bowers and Wilkins and bearing the ID ref - ZZ11681
It is an ideal replacement for the KEF B110, both as a mid range in such systems as the KEF Concerto and Cambridge R50, or as a mid/bass unit in the LS3/5A and Linn Kan's.
Can also be used in many Mission speakers such as the 753, Castle models such as the Severn and many other speakers which are fitted with a 5" mid/bass units of this shape.
Technical Data:
Frame size: 132 x 132mm
Sensitivity (2.83v/1m): 88dB
Nominal impedance: 8 ohm
Frequency range: 65Hz-6kHz
Nominal power handling: 45w
Physical Sizes:
Frame size: 132 x 132mm
Overall depth (front of frame to rear of magnet): 75mm
Flange thickness: 5mm
New user here. As all of you had the same issue but rather than butchering the speakers I managed to fit midrange drivers which were originally produced for B&W and there is no need to become a carpenter to fit them and personally the sound is better too and sharper.
Originally produced for Bowers and Wilkins and bearing the ID ref - ZZ11681
It is an ideal replacement for the KEF B110, both as a mid range in such systems as the KEF Concerto and Cambridge R50, or as a mid/bass unit in the LS3/5A and Linn Kan's.
Can also be used in many Mission speakers such as the 753, Castle models such as the Severn and many other speakers which are fitted with a 5" mid/bass units of this shape.
Technical Data:
Frame size: 132 x 132mm
Sensitivity (2.83v/1m): 88dB
Nominal impedance: 8 ohm
Frequency range: 65Hz-6kHz
Nominal power handling: 45w
Physical Sizes:
Frame size: 132 x 132mm
Overall depth (front of frame to rear of magnet): 75mm
Flange thickness: 5mm
Perfectly fine
The sound I would say is a bit more open compared to the original Audax mid with better clarity for the mid/high notes, or at least that is my impression comparing them with another set of 782 I have with the improved Audax mid.
France! I bought them from a French company that shipped them over.
https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/speaker-audax-hm130z12-8-ohm-5-35-x-5-35-inch.html
Checked one of my speakers this morning and its starting to corrode, they were in storage for a long time, then mainly used for AV, but back to stereo now.
I would prefer not to alter the speaker cabinet etc. at all, if it can be helped. Which is why I'm interested in the B&W option as a direct replacement.
I would prefer not to alter the speaker cabinet etc. at all, if it can be helped. Which is why I'm interested in the B&W option as a direct replacement.
Attachments
For interested. The original Mission driver for the 782 columns is currently available.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/175090000994
https://www.ebay.com/itm/175090000994
I have just repaired my Mission 782 SEs with the Audax HM130Z12 drivers, ordered on-line from TLHP in France. They arrived here in the UK in less than a week. I fitted them without altering the woodwork or the plastic cover & grill. Rather than hours of cutting using a dremmel I used a bench grinder to take of the bits that stopped the cover fitting back on. Namely, you sacrifice the 2 top holes altogether (make new ones on the top edge where you don't have to grind at all). You don't have to grind the bottom edge at all. You DO have to grind bits of the sides (the bits where Lucas Adamson above made holes in the plastic to accommodate). Less than an hour per speaker. All done. They look and sound good.
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I think that people are wasting a lot of energy with reading reports and guessing which driver and inductor etc. to use, instead of investing some 100€ to a measurement microphone.
Sad is also how many well respected commercial loudspeakers have poor performance and poor crossovers that waste the potential.
I can't design passive xo, so I use multichannel dsp in my projects. Here a 3-way analog-active converted to dsp-active, using Audax HM100Z0
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/avalanche-as1-modernization.321711/
Sad is also how many well respected commercial loudspeakers have poor performance and poor crossovers that waste the potential.
I can't design passive xo, so I use multichannel dsp in my projects. Here a 3-way analog-active converted to dsp-active, using Audax HM100Z0
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/avalanche-as1-modernization.321711/
You have to 'go for it' a bit with the grinder and take the view that they were built to vibrate! At about £60 per driver and not hacking the cabinets about the risk is limited if you screw up. And the risk was all worthwhile. . .
Have had a lot more time to hear them today with various genres of music including Morgan Wade, Mendelssohn Violin Concerto, Dr Feelgood, Johnny Kidd & the Pirates, Brighouse & Rastick Brass Band & Alison Krause and Elvis too. Really pleased to have them back in action. The Arcam A29 drives them well and they arguably do sound better than when I got them new about 20 years ago. Mind you, back then my Amp was a Pioneer A400, which was great in its day but probably not quite so good for these speakers.
Being an Audax junkie, long time ago I saw a set of mids for sale on ebay. Though they looked neat and we're Audax, so I bought. Unfortunately, the seller thought it'd be a good idea to mount them to a piece of wood face first. This didn't allow any jarring movement, one was broke in half (plastic frames). So now I have one random mid from a Mission speaker. Should probably put it back for sale for someone that might use it.
Further to mending my Mission 782 SEs above I found a pair of 780 Mk2s with dead Keraform drivers on eBAY and got them for £25 incl. postage. I ordered up another pair of the Audax HM130Z12s from TLHP in France,(about £110 for the pair delivered) which again arrived here in the UK in less than a week. Less than an hour per speaker again, using the same technique and they are 'as good as new'. I now have some very fine sounding kitchen speakers, I cook a lot!