yes, it sounds amazing!!! I did side by side test with Bryston B60 and at the end I sold the B60...That says it all
. of course the M400 is more powerful, but I went for the sound. Bryston is an excellent amp, but I liked the sound of the M400 better. I have had so many amps like: Portal Panache, bryston B60, Marantz 2238B/2252b, Blue circle integrated, Acurus DIA100, luxman R117, Adcom etc,etc but the M400 will kick big a$$ I also build their T300, I liked it but the M400 is a keeper!!!yes, it sounds amazing!!! I did side by side test with Bryston B60 and at the end I sold the B60...That says it all
Comparing amps can often be like comparing apples to oranges. Especially if one has much simpler topology (which has its own benefit of good character). Comparing amps of the same topology makes more sense.
Looking from the picture of M400 pcb which has 8x TO-9 transistors and the mentioned 2-stage drive for the mosfet, I think it is the famous 2-stage double LTP as suggested by Hitachi. I have built many amps of this topology. Actually I planned to clone the M400, at least to simulate it to see its performance to compare with other amps of the same topology (always forgot it).
If it is really the double LTP topology, I think it should be compared with Dr Jagodic (BoraOmega) SIGMA amplifier. It seems that Jagodic's Sigma is the best that I have built for that topology.
It's quite surprising to me, that most of the time (if not all of the time) amplifier quality can be seen from its simulation!!!
Comparing amps can often be like comparing apples to oranges. Especially if one has much simpler topology (which has its own benefit of good character). Comparing amps of the same topology makes more sense.
Looking from the picture of M400 pcb which has 8x TO-9 transistors and the mentioned 2-stage drive for the mosfet, I think it is the famous 2-stage double LTP as suggested by Hitachi. I have built many amps of this topology. Actually I planned to clone the M400, at least to simulate it to see its performance to compare with other amps of the same topology (always forgot it).
If it is really the double LTP topology, I think it should be compared with Dr Jagodic (BoraOmega) SIGMA amplifier. It seems that Jagodic's Sigma is the best that I have built for that topology.
It's quite surprising to me, that most of the time (if not all of the time) amplifier quality can be seen from its simulation!!!
Those 8 small transistors are 2N5551 and 2N5401.is it possible that you can clone this M400 without knowing the values of the parts?
Those 8 small transistors are 2N5551 and 2N5401.is it possible that you can clone this M400 without knowing the values of the parts?
I haven't tried yet (to find the values)
I haven't tried yet (to find the values)
Well. the "ONLY" way to find the values is if you have one on your hands or someone (like me) tells you. you will not find the M400 schematic, specifications, values etc on the web.
beside that there is a trick with schematic (parts). if you just fallow schematic...you will just blow the amp!!!PS: I do not have a pdf for schematic, they will not provide one. They send full introductions how to build it step by step, voltages adjustments, parts values and the tricks. all this is by e-mail. so I had to print it (twice) just in case I loose the info in my computer.
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Well. the "ONLY" way to find the values is if you have one on your hands or someone (like me) tells you. you will not find the M400 schematic, specifications, values etc on the web.
Oh no another magic formula
Theres a couple of those around here, except its just all basic and well known tricks superpassed 20 years ago.
You must be the designer, surely there are better marketing ways than this.
Oh no another magic formula
Theres a couple of those around here, except its just all basic and well known tricks superpassed 20 years ago.
You must be the designer, surely there are better marketing ways than this.
lol, I wish I was the designer of this marvelous amp
You must be the designer, surely there are better marketing ways than this.
Hehehe. For us hard core DIYers, there is nothing new with amplifiers. It is just about marketing. Of course, we're not the target market. There are dummies and beginners out there to sell amps to. Not us
Hehehe. For us hard core DIYers, there is nothing new with amplifiers. It is just about marketing. Of course, we're not the target market. There are dummies and beginners out there to sell amps to. Not us
Some of these marketers are actually very good, look at goldmund, common design, nothing special and they fool people into paying amounts that could buy a small car for a amp.
Goldmund
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/174468-very-best-amplifier-i-have-ever-heard.html
It's just a bit hard to get thru all the sites to know important issues.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/174468-very-best-amplifier-i-have-ever-heard.html
It's just a bit hard to get thru all the sites to know important issues.
It is hard for me to believe, that people who buys for example Goldmund amplifier, will buy that very expensive product solely based on marketing. Either those people are idiots or Goldmund products are really worth for that money.
But for sure buying product that costs ten times more than say to build Leach amplifier will not get you ten times more performence.
Anyway, to summarize the thread, the following amps are recommended to be better than Symasym:
DX Blame
ThermalTrak+TMC amp
HDAmp M400 (not public)
Roender's FC 100
some amp by Federmann (not public)
For me, the amp must be one level above the Symasym to be really worthy to build for me. So which one is it?
(Best amp for me would be Aikido tube preamp driving HEC BJT output stage, but that is for another thread as I dont have enough skills modify HEC to be driven by tube preamp)
You can look at this one http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/186981-bootstrapsccs-t-tmc.html. It is simpler then TT amp and the sound is excellent.
dado
dado
I don't own a Goldmund amp.
But even if you would build a Goldmund DIY you still wouldn't have all the mechanical decoupling techniques for MOSFETs and caps integrated in a Goldmund chasis. These influences are measurable and audible.
So you still wouldn't have a Goldmund sound even you build it DIY.
The costs come from their experience and their effort optimize in edges where the results go exponential with the costs...
Member
Joined 2009
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I'll add my vote to the DX amplifier. This is a time honored and proven topology. By proven I mean that it and it's variants are widely adopted by many commercial amplifiers and it sounds good, can be readily scaled to higher/lower power, is stable and has a wide choice of suitable components. The set up and adjustments are relatively simple.
Most, if not all, you need is here:
Greg's Web Site
I also like Roenders fc-100 amp, it's about twice as complex as the DX though, with shunt regulated voltage doubled front end power supply, CFP drivers and high idle current output stage designed to give Class A for the first couple of watts. Layout is important for stability of a CFP.
Most, if not all, you need is here:
Greg's Web Site
I also like Roenders fc-100 amp, it's about twice as complex as the DX though, with shunt regulated voltage doubled front end power supply, CFP drivers and high idle current output stage designed to give Class A for the first couple of watts. Layout is important for stability of a CFP.
Rmi-fc100 is not an easy to build.
Must take care about components.
When it's built properly it gives good sonic results (if you like it).
Metal and Rudi offers a state of the art pcb. This pcb is well tested repeated by some diyers (me too).
But i agree that DX is easier to reproduce for a newbie. (It does not mean that it's not a good amp)
IMHO Rmi-fc100 is worth the effort (from subjective pov)
Must take care about components.
When it's built properly it gives good sonic results (if you like it).
Metal and Rudi offers a state of the art pcb. This pcb is well tested repeated by some diyers (me too).
But i agree that DX is easier to reproduce for a newbie. (It does not mean that it's not a good amp)
IMHO Rmi-fc100 is worth the effort (from subjective pov)
dont worry about it, this attitude will never die, funny thing is most will form this opinion from snippets caught on the telly or pop radio at best; 2 places you will always find boot scrapings of any genre
i vote for symef
i may be newbie here but if you like differential vas stage like symasym same topology with symef but symef has one more advantage its triple output.it means additional drive currents to pre driver.nd usually most high end product usestriple output.if you have a book of sloan you can see there that they are all same style which is blameless but his favorite is fig.15 which employs tripple output and an input cascode stage.
Regards,
joel
i may be newbie here but if you like differential vas stage like symasym same topology with symef but symef has one more advantage its triple output.it means additional drive currents to pre driver.nd usually most high end product usestriple output.if you have a book of sloan you can see there that they are all same style which is blameless but his favorite is fig.15 which employs tripple output and an input cascode stage.
Regards,
joel
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