The knowledge how to build it is not enough. You need the production
facilities for the laser diodes and the special chips and mechanics too.
If you do not have these, you can now buy a dozent CD players and
hope that they still work 30 years in the future
Or you could rip your CDs to harddisk, make a backup, and buy a good DAC.
Sometimes when you cannot solve a problem, you can work around it.
In Österreich sagt man dazu wohl Gseres - in other words. posts like yours did already eat up one third of this thread.
I did write that milling a prototype is no problem.
Lenses and coils can be adressed
I did also write that servos should be made of existing hardware
this is why I am always referring to the early generations´datasheets.
The developers of the first prototypes had to use what was around in the
late seventies. Mass production was a problem of minutiarization, not feasibility.
So please read through this thread before posting, I bet my answer to you did already take more time than what you invested.
I did write that milling a prototype is no problem.
Lenses and coils can be adressed
I did also write that servos should be made of existing hardware
this is why I am always referring to the early generations´datasheets.
The developers of the first prototypes had to use what was around in the
late seventies. Mass production was a problem of minutiarization, not feasibility.
So please read through this thread before posting, I bet my answer to you did already take more time than what you invested.
Maybe it was not the answer you had hoped for..
The developers (probably a multidiscipline team) of the first CD
had a strong company (actually two) behind them and a big budget.
They did not use what was around, but developed what they need
and let it build...
I is not very realistic to think that you can do this alone,
even if you are building on 30 years old hardware
and get excellent results.
And actually i was one of the few who helped you with an electronic
problem last year at the beginning of this journey...
The developers (probably a multidiscipline team) of the first CD
had a strong company (actually two) behind them and a big budget.
They did not use what was around, but developed what they need
and let it build...
I is not very realistic to think that you can do this alone,
even if you are building on 30 years old hardware
and get excellent results.
And actually i was one of the few who helped you with an electronic
problem last year at the beginning of this journey...
As much as I would like OP to succeed in this hard journey.... I already gave up many years ago and never regretted abandoning optical media. What I got in return is less jitter and ease of use. OP of course already knows this and perseveres in the journey. Maybe the trip itself is more important than the goal ?!
If you guys succeed you might as well discover that the media themselves won't be playable anymore.... a few weeks ago I visited an audio guy that had much of his SACD unplayable. My own CDR are unplayable.... Longevity never was one of the design features of optical media it seems.
Still I would like to donate a practically unused CDM4/19 if you can use it, Salar. Sometimes you just need to do what you want to do.
If you guys succeed you might as well discover that the media themselves won't be playable anymore.... a few weeks ago I visited an audio guy that had much of his SACD unplayable. My own CDR are unplayable.... Longevity never was one of the design features of optical media it seems.
Still I would like to donate a practically unused CDM4/19 if you can use it, Salar. Sometimes you just need to do what you want to do.
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Hi udok,
What you are saying is true to some extent, but Salar has the massive advantage that he has all the technical notes and knowledge already. It is broken down into reasonable chunks for each sub-system. The MPU controller won't be a problem, not will the filters servo amplifiers. The head is built on known technology as well. Salar can succeed, and I really hope he does exactly that!
-Chris
What you are saying is true to some extent, but Salar has the massive advantage that he has all the technical notes and knowledge already. It is broken down into reasonable chunks for each sub-system. The MPU controller won't be a problem, not will the filters servo amplifiers. The head is built on known technology as well. Salar can succeed, and I really hope he does exactly that!
-Chris
I have about 400 CD, the first was bought late spring 1984, Lou Reed, Transformer. None of those 400 failed until today. Same with CDR except the cheap ones
The first from 1994 still works flawlessy. It did cost 17$
and the the CDR´s that failed did cost 5 cents. So do not blame the media
as the industry cut during mass production corners - same what happened to mechs.
No Internet, almost no CAD, no 3-D printing/prototyping, almost no integrated circuits, no widespread physical computing like Arduino and
knowledge that this thread wants to combine instead of discussing feasibility over and over again...
Jean Paul, when you like to donate a practically unused CDM4/19 I will be very happy to get it. I will send you a mail.
The first from 1994 still works flawlessy. It did cost 17$
and the the CDR´s that failed did cost 5 cents. So do not blame the media
as the industry cut during mass production corners - same what happened to mechs.
No Internet, almost no CAD, no 3-D printing/prototyping, almost no integrated circuits, no widespread physical computing like Arduino and
knowledge that this thread wants to combine instead of discussing feasibility over and over again...
Jean Paul, when you like to donate a practically unused CDM4/19 I will be very happy to get it. I will send you a mail.
This page of this thread reminds me of a time long ago when we were making a short low budget movie in California. The team was mixed, German, Austrian, U.S.
When a problem came up, the "Europeans" always discussed the obstacles, while the "Americans" simply prepared the shoot / take and almost always managed to get around the problem...
When we ran out of daylight film stock, the cameraman simply put an orange foil before the lens and used the stock made for tungsten...
These two links may be helpful (either to help designing a CD pickup or to learn why it is perhaps too difficult for a hobbyist):
IVPV handbook of optics (enkel voor lesgevers)
(Chapter 31: Principles of Optical Disk Data Storage)
and
https://pure.tue.nl/ws/files/24858649/595149.pdf
(Light path design for optical disk systems – a PhD thesis from a Philips designer of optical pickups for CD and DVD)
IVPV handbook of optics (enkel voor lesgevers)
(Chapter 31: Principles of Optical Disk Data Storage)
and
https://pure.tue.nl/ws/files/24858649/595149.pdf
(Light path design for optical disk systems – a PhD thesis from a Philips designer of optical pickups for CD and DVD)
mat02ah,
herzlichen Dank, thanks a lot!.
I am still very much consumed in finishing some technical drawings related to the projekt.
I will read the papers next weekend. At first glance, chapter 31 gives much more information than other sources.
I would not call the approach to this project hobbyists.
I am very sure that in 10 years we will be in desperate need for reliable transports...
herzlichen Dank, thanks a lot!.
I am still very much consumed in finishing some technical drawings related to the projekt.
I will read the papers next weekend. At first glance, chapter 31 gives much more information than other sources.
I would not call the approach to this project hobbyists.
I am very sure that in 10 years we will be in desperate need for reliable transports...
Salar,
the term "hobbyist" was not meant in a disrespectful way. After all, (almost) all of us are hobbyists here …
I think that right now you underestimate the required knowledge in optics. In my opinion the Phd thesis is more useful than the chapter in the optics book because it also contains references to basic literature about the optical principles of CD pickups.
The optics book is also very useful if you want to learn about the optical elements needed and how to specify them. Once you know all this you may be able to buy the parts required from Thorlabs or Edmund Optics.
I also think that you underestimate the technical power of the Philips research lab. For example, if you read other papers from Philips about the laser disk or the CD, it is very clear that they used optical simulation software, which - of course - at that time (sixties, seventies, eighties …) required access to a computing centre (which had much less computing power and storage capacity than a smartphone today) and most likely the capability to write your own software. It took many talented engineers and physicists (and a lot of money …) to develop the laser disk / CD.
the term "hobbyist" was not meant in a disrespectful way. After all, (almost) all of us are hobbyists here …
I think that right now you underestimate the required knowledge in optics. In my opinion the Phd thesis is more useful than the chapter in the optics book because it also contains references to basic literature about the optical principles of CD pickups.
The optics book is also very useful if you want to learn about the optical elements needed and how to specify them. Once you know all this you may be able to buy the parts required from Thorlabs or Edmund Optics.
I also think that you underestimate the technical power of the Philips research lab. For example, if you read other papers from Philips about the laser disk or the CD, it is very clear that they used optical simulation software, which - of course - at that time (sixties, seventies, eighties …) required access to a computing centre (which had much less computing power and storage capacity than a smartphone today) and most likely the capability to write your own software. It took many talented engineers and physicists (and a lot of money …) to develop the laser disk / CD.
Being the thread starter I cannot emphasize enough we need specialist to
do the reverse engeneering, especially for optics and mechanics. There are no patents
anymore. So again, everyone who is willing to
put time and effort into it is very welcome. In the moment
we need someone to do the optical calculations...
do the reverse engeneering, especially for optics and mechanics. There are no patents
anymore. So again, everyone who is willing to
put time and effort into it is very welcome. In the moment
we need someone to do the optical calculations...
There are lots of old Philips transports available and they can be fixed in many cases. I use a Chord Blu transport with a Philips pro transport and have never auditioned a better transport (even better then my Teac P10) .
BTW, the Chord Blu MKII is still in production (to my knowledge) !!
It is not DIY, that is the negative side to the story. But i could build a new D/A converter especially for this transport as it has 2 S/Pdif outputs to handle the higher sampling rate.
BTW, the Chord Blu MKII is still in production (to my knowledge) !!
It is not DIY, that is the negative side to the story. But i could build a new D/A converter especially for this transport as it has 2 S/Pdif outputs to handle the higher sampling rate.
Attachments
Hi Chris,
I have a DCC-8920 head unit, and I know it needs a separate tuner. Is there any way to get this thing installed & working like it used to?
Thanks!
Optical disc transport mechanisms are still being mass-produced for Blu-ray players. Nearly all Blu-ray players are capable of playing other disc formats such as DVD, CD, & SACD.
Is there any chance that a mass-produced Blu-ray optical transport could be used as the foundation for a DIY CD transport?
(& perhaps SACD also)
For example: Sony UBP-X800M2
I intend to obtain a Sony UBP-X800M2. I’m watching eBay in hopes of getting a “used” one for $50-60 USD.
-EB
Is there any chance that a mass-produced Blu-ray optical transport could be used as the foundation for a DIY CD transport?
(& perhaps SACD also)
For example: Sony UBP-X800M2
This is Sony’s current model of premium-grade Ultra-HD (4K video) universal disc player.
It plays Blu-ray, DVD, CD, & SACD formats.
Note: The Sony UBP-X800M2 has no analog outputs for audio or video.
It has only HDMI for combined video/audio output and a standard “orange” RCA jack for SPDIF digital audio output.
It plays Blu-ray, DVD, CD, & SACD formats.
Note: The Sony UBP-X800M2 has no analog outputs for audio or video.
It has only HDMI for combined video/audio output and a standard “orange” RCA jack for SPDIF digital audio output.
I intend to obtain a Sony UBP-X800M2. I’m watching eBay in hopes of getting a “used” one for $50-60 USD.
-EB
I have not read most of the 66 pages, and I have tried searching to find if using CD rippers has been discussed (didn't find anything)
Apart from the nostalgia factor, what value would building a high-end CD transport have in a world where with a PC and minimal effort I can get a bit-perfect copy of any CD ripped to a lossless digital file? Once the CDs are stored in digital files, there are multiple options to send them to a very high quality DAC with negligible jitter, well above what a mechanical drive can achieve.
Storage costs next to nothing even for large collections, and a Raspberry Pi4 can stream any digital file to a very high quality DAC for a negligible cost
I mean, I can sorta understand the vinyl nostalgia, but with CDs none of those (bogus) considerations apply. Having a rotating CD to play music is obsolete, wasteful (lots of power for nothing) and prone to mechanical errors, including vibrations and degradation. In any case you have a digital stream being converted by a DAC. And starting from a digital file is much better than a mechanical medium
What am I missing?
Apart from the nostalgia factor, what value would building a high-end CD transport have in a world where with a PC and minimal effort I can get a bit-perfect copy of any CD ripped to a lossless digital file? Once the CDs are stored in digital files, there are multiple options to send them to a very high quality DAC with negligible jitter, well above what a mechanical drive can achieve.
Storage costs next to nothing even for large collections, and a Raspberry Pi4 can stream any digital file to a very high quality DAC for a negligible cost
I mean, I can sorta understand the vinyl nostalgia, but with CDs none of those (bogus) considerations apply. Having a rotating CD to play music is obsolete, wasteful (lots of power for nothing) and prone to mechanical errors, including vibrations and degradation. In any case you have a digital stream being converted by a DAC. And starting from a digital file is much better than a mechanical medium
What am I missing?