after reading "My measurements are based on:
My ears and what they think sounds good. " I was finished with reading your whole "cable" thingy.
Just because you like the way it sounds ( its hard to believe you can even tell a difference without blind testing) dosnt mean its any good.
Time smear? Really? Can you tell us how much? All I could find is the inductance change in twisted pair (which is higher than regular speaker cable) due to skin effect, and its very small:
At 1hz its .613 mH/KILOMETER at 10khz its .610 mH/ KILOMETER. or what, about a change of 1 nH per meter. How does that compare to the inductance of the speaker?
So it is almost completely resistive.
When will people stop using insignificant physical properties to try to explain what they think they hear?
That's audiophile legend from the Hawksford paper that the journals wouldn't accept (because it's wrong). No experimental verification, and if it were true, LANs wouldn't work, nor would VHF coax.
Never mind, you probably read this BS.
"Where propagation speed does have a dramatic effect is in the nearly universally misunderstood concept of skin effect. Contrary to popular belief, the higher frequencies do not ride in the outer regions of the conductors. Once again, energy is conveyed between the conductors, not in them. As the electromagnetic wave travels along a cable, however, it will penetrate the conductors. As it penetrates, the wave is rapidly attenuated, with the higher frequencies undergoing more rapid attenuation than the lower frequencies as they journey towards the conductor's center. If we look at a cross section of a round conductor, this greater rate of high frequency attenuation causes the electromagnetic field intensity of the higher frequencies to appear stronger at the perimeter than the lower frequencies, which have a seemingly more uniform distribution. This is why many erroneously claim that the higher frequencies travel in the conductor's outer 'skin.' What very few people understand, and this is the most important aspect of the wave penetration, is that the speed of propagation in the conductor itself is incredibly slow. Instead of some high percentage of the speed of light, the wave, in copper for example, travels radially at approximately 3 meters/sec at 50hz and 60 meters/sec at 20kHz. Compared to the waveform in the dielectric, this is a low level, grossly time smeared signal, and it wreaks sonic havoc."
From StereoTimes -- Silversmith Audio Silver Interconnect and Speaker Cable
So in a 10ft cable it takes a full second for the 50 hz to reach the speakers? LOL
Ill let the bass player know he has to play a half bar ahead of the drummer.
If your trying to sell BS at least make it sorta believable.
"Where propagation speed does have a dramatic effect is in the nearly universally misunderstood concept of skin effect. Contrary to popular belief, the higher frequencies do not ride in the outer regions of the conductors. Once again, energy is conveyed between the conductors, not in them. As the electromagnetic wave travels along a cable, however, it will penetrate the conductors. As it penetrates, the wave is rapidly attenuated, with the higher frequencies undergoing more rapid attenuation than the lower frequencies as they journey towards the conductor's center. If we look at a cross section of a round conductor, this greater rate of high frequency attenuation causes the electromagnetic field intensity of the higher frequencies to appear stronger at the perimeter than the lower frequencies, which have a seemingly more uniform distribution. This is why many erroneously claim that the higher frequencies travel in the conductor's outer 'skin.' What very few people understand, and this is the most important aspect of the wave penetration, is that the speed of propagation in the conductor itself is incredibly slow. Instead of some high percentage of the speed of light, the wave, in copper for example, travels radially at approximately 3 meters/sec at 50hz and 60 meters/sec at 20kHz. Compared to the waveform in the dielectric, this is a low level, grossly time smeared signal, and it wreaks sonic havoc."
From StereoTimes -- Silversmith Audio Silver Interconnect and Speaker Cable
So in a 10ft cable it takes a full second for the 50 hz to reach the speakers? LOL
Ill let the bass player know he has to play a half bar ahead of the drummer.
If your trying to sell BS at least make it sorta believable.
...well...if you would have read on, you would have seen one of the devices that I use to do exactly that. Its the Manley Skipjack.
But I wont bore you with what you can do with it...you obviously like your stance on this matter.
Seems like you are getting it...
Point 1: Any audible difference made by different cables is minimal anyway, but....
Point 2: IF there is an audible difference caused by some particular aspect of the cable, there is absolutely NO WAY to know that it will be a positive thing for every amplifier it is plugged in to.
Some amplifiers, like my personal version of fetzilla, are run on the edge of stability and like a little extra inductance in their cables. This would be pointless for something stable like an aleph, and many commercial cables aim to reduce inductance. Conversely, some commercial cables are high capacitance which could affect the stability of some amps, making them sound different. I say different, not necessarily better.
No two amplifiers of different design will respond to these aspects in the same way and may respond in a positive or negative way.
So in conclusion, if you believe cables make a difference in the first place, it is impossible to recommend a single cable that will induce a positive change on all amplifiers. These people selling $1000 cables are lying if they say otherwise. Unless you like the sound of rustling money.
Your question was about NP's amplifiers which are all typically single ended class A and stable as a tanker. Just use something copper with enough thickness to carry a few amps and you'll be fine.
Last edited:
At least, wave propagation into the conductor is indeed very much lower speed than a high fraction of speed of the light. The only way to carry an electron flow as fast as a high percentage of speed of the light is in vacuum ( e.g., for example, vacuum tubes). In the real cable, when "sliding" against the conductor rails, the electromagnetic wave does make its way into the dielectric, which is no vacuum.
And before calling it BS; can you be more specific, and please explain to everyone (or at least, to me) what this abreviation BS means,
and if it has any place to appear in a calm and pacific conversation about different types of cables.
BS taken apart; I'm not in any way trying to sell it. At least, audiophiles (those who love sound) have their own decision and wills to try things their own ways.
That's what I strongly encourage, other than just throwing out criticism and negative thoughts on this thread.
Silversmith, Argento, Nordost, Goertz, Vacuum State .... cables do use thin foils, and those designs are highly praised / recommended / state of art.
If all this was about pseudo "BS", those designs wouldn't exist.
Peace,
nAr
This is a very correct advice about room treatment. It shouldn't be neglected.
But most of audiophiles don't own those active monitors that pros live with, and do have the need of power speaker cables, and maybe the desire at least to try different technologies
Peace,
nAr
By who? Mostly the marketers and the magazines in there (deep) pockets. Giving bad reviews to products that pay your bills (by advertising) is shooting your self in the foot.
Oh please, do you think just because it exists it actually works as advertised. Do you believe in the felt pen around the edge of your CD, the magic stones on top of your speakers, the $500 power cable for your turntable... do I need to go on?
When it comes to audio cable I like to think about the 3600km transatlantic phone line laid 60 years ago and extrapolate from there. Its a million times longer than your hi-fi cables and it still transmitted enough quality to recognize the person you were talking to. Lets put this time smear thing into perspective, according to the "BS" the 50hz would take 14 days to travel the phone line, and 20khz (if it had the bandwidth) would take 16 hours, do you believe that? This guy is supposed to be a US navy engineer? LOL
You don't, I honestly find it stupid enough
I do use some quality AC cables in my system. Some Furutech that did improve sound result from original standard ones ... On my Ugs pre and on the mono blocs Aleph J. Best part of it, I will tell you: I was the sceptical guy before plugin'them'in ...
I do use some quality AC cables in my system. Some Furutech that did improve sound result from original standard ones ... On my Ugs pre and on the mono blocs Aleph J. Best part of it, I will tell you: I was the sceptical guy before plugin'them'in ...
some of the OT removed.The transatlantic phone cable is a 3,600,000 meter long audio cable, if a supposed cable phenomenon dosnt appear there than its very likely it wont appear on your 3 meter cable. And if it is a real effect, like skin depth it will be a million times ( or sometimes square root of a million times) more prominent. So if they didnt have to worry about it you dont have to. There is the odd exception like RF ingress into your power amp but, that has more to do with your amp then the cable.
Last edited:
but what do you define as 'better'? There is no standard definition. Does that make the matter worse?
Also regarding point 1, you say its minimal but I am not sure its even existent?
Point 2: not all manufacturers assert this. Some say you can mix and match to get the sound you want.
I actually fell for the 'magic stones on top of my equipment' and went and bought some. I feel stupid now.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.