The Faital's arrived. Nicely made and perfect gasket for horn mounting without need for spacer to prevent surround rub. The 3FE25 has a huge magnet about same size as cutout dia. The 3FE22 has a tiny Nd magnet but is supposedly same Bl. The latter has Qts of 0.36 and rising response so I will try in horn first.
Initial setup shows raw response is about 11dB more sensitive than TC9FD. This allows me to use low shelf cut to balance with mid woofer rather than extreme boost on HF. Here is initial EQ and raw (grey). Still very rough but initial listening impressions are very good. The HD is very low and vocal clarity is excellent. I think there is some residual ringing at 15khz that may need to be dealt with.
Since the EQ is mostly a negative cut, the cone movement is extremely small and HD correspondingly is smaller. This horn can get very loud now with any power applied to it. The tractrix horn does an amazing job of loading this cone. At uncomfortably loud SPL I can barely feel the cone moving - almost have to ask myself is the wire even connected. You know it is because you hear it but you can't feel the cone moving.
Only had time to listen to 2 songs and both sound very nice. The quality of the sound is very clear and with lots of headroom for dynamics due to the high sensitivity. My mic clipped at 1m away and same voltage applied as TC9FD. Had to reduce excitation by -5dB to stay out of clipping.
Going with this driver the horn is $60 now.
Initial setup shows raw response is about 11dB more sensitive than TC9FD. This allows me to use low shelf cut to balance with mid woofer rather than extreme boost on HF. Here is initial EQ and raw (grey). Still very rough but initial listening impressions are very good. The HD is very low and vocal clarity is excellent. I think there is some residual ringing at 15khz that may need to be dealt with.
Since the EQ is mostly a negative cut, the cone movement is extremely small and HD correspondingly is smaller. This horn can get very loud now with any power applied to it. The tractrix horn does an amazing job of loading this cone. At uncomfortably loud SPL I can barely feel the cone moving - almost have to ask myself is the wire even connected. You know it is because you hear it but you can't feel the cone moving.
Only had time to listen to 2 songs and both sound very nice. The quality of the sound is very clear and with lots of headroom for dynamics due to the high sensitivity. My mic clipped at 1m away and same voltage applied as TC9FD. Had to reduce excitation by -5dB to stay out of clipping.
Going with this driver the horn is $60 now.
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Ahh oke, good that it is mentioned by me.
I see that for example start 26 cm2 it go to for example 24 cm2 then it expands further.
That is why I get tha strange outcome in sketchup, only it is sometimes tenths of mm, so do you round it at mm? because between that it is difficult and I do not now it have much impact, I think you did on script also.
How much steps dit you use to drawn the horn? it is in sheet al hole lot of numbers.
I do NOT use a dsp, everything go analog, only tapped horn has own amp, this is possible when woofers are lower in efficienty then high
then I can use L-pads, analog can be a pain in the *** nut i do like to go on with that, I have nice transformers made
who have adjustable induction..
regards
kees
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I don't know how to get a house response. I do notice consistent dips at 80Hz and 150Hz between various speakers. Sometimes there is a 400Hz dip too.
I ment the (long time window, for ex. 500ms) freq response from the listening position when the speakers are tuned and toed-in how you like their sound.
Kees,
I made profile with dimensions at each inch. I fit that profile in Solidworks with a spline to +/- 1mm then made 2d pattern. Transferring 2d pattern and cutting it probably ended up with +/- 2mm error in profile. Gluing it probably results in +/- 3mm at worst but most likey 1-2mm error.
You are brave to go at this analog and passive XO. There is a lot of EQ if you want flat response. With analog it will get you broad strokes and not fine scale peaks.
I made profile with dimensions at each inch. I fit that profile in Solidworks with a spline to +/- 1mm then made 2d pattern. Transferring 2d pattern and cutting it probably ended up with +/- 2mm error in profile. Gluing it probably results in +/- 3mm at worst but most likey 1-2mm error.
You are brave to go at this analog and passive XO. There is a lot of EQ if you want flat response. With analog it will get you broad strokes and not fine scale peaks.
I ment the (long time window, for ex. 500ms) freq response from the listening position when the speakers are tuned and toed-in how you like their sound.
Ok
I only have one at moment but they sound great from 2.5 to 4m away. The horn really reduces ambient reflections. Makes it sound so much better than conventional open faces speakers.I think your EQ is because of the big motor and heavy cone going to 15 Khz who do challence nature
But do it not work I have still conic synergy, and challences are nice like you do.
regards
kees
How do the Faitals compare to your PRV's subjectively? They're cheaper, for sure.
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I am going to have to listen to them some more to get a better assessment. But being in two different horns with the bigger one naturally sounding bigger and better it may not be the best comparison. The PRV is of course more sensitive, can play louder, and I believe may have better transients and impulse response. But for 1/3rd the price, the Faital Pro 3FE22 does a very nice job in a horn loaded arrangement. If you don't need the high SPL I think you would be quite happy with the 3FE22. I would say the vocals on the PRV sound more fluid like, very smooth. There is an edge to both the Vifa and Faital that I can't quite put my finger on yet. Really tough without an A/B comparo.
Both versions of your horns deserve to be listened to in stereo .
And maybe, both can be improved upon by building them with more stable materials?
If you had to choose one, to live with I mean, what version would you like to develop further? Not regarding price or size for that matter, what version deserves to be investigated by using more rigid materials or better damping?
If the tractrix worked out so well, I start to wonder how the le Cleac'h would do. Personally, if I had no size constraints, I would try the Azurahorn vs. the oblate spheroidal or even come out with something somewhere in the middle. I went with the line array purely based on size. Sounds funny but it doesn't take up much floor space... If I didn't have the boundary's of family life (that I wouldn't want to miss) I would have persued the big horns.
.And maybe, both can be improved upon by building them with more stable materials?
If you had to choose one, to live with I mean, what version would you like to develop further? Not regarding price or size for that matter, what version deserves to be investigated by using more rigid materials or better damping?
If the tractrix worked out so well, I start to wonder how the le Cleac'h would do
. Personally, if I had no size constraints, I would try the Azurahorn vs. the oblate spheroidal or even come out with something somewhere in the middle. I went with the line array purely based on size. Sounds funny but it doesn't take up much floor space... If I didn't have the boundary's of family life (that I wouldn't want to miss) I would have persued the big horns.
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0,7x Vifa or Faital combined 4xwoofer go lower than 1,0x PRV and if CD do work down there must be force, at same the band they go lower that 1,0x PRV comes from same point where at the 1,0x PRV you get that band from sub somewhere out in room.
Wesayso,
I think both of these horns would probably sound better with stiffer or stronger materials. Although I am quite surprised how well the CLD worked with the foam core and kept if relatively light. Given that the smaller version is being asked to work down to about 100Hz it seems that it is the horn that can benefit most from being made of wood or perhaps another stiffer yet lighter composite. I don't like heavy speakers that can't be moved around by one person easily. The large horn if made of wood would indeed be very heavy and unwieldy. Perhaps more reason for it to be left made of foam. The oblate spheroidal horn that is a Synergy from Red Spade looks pretty nice. 500Hz to 20kHz and fiberglass. Looks huge though. OS may be the next thing I try to build. Not sure if can be made of foam though
I think both of these horns would probably sound better with stiffer or stronger materials. Although I am quite surprised how well the CLD worked with the foam core and kept if relatively light. Given that the smaller version is being asked to work down to about 100Hz it seems that it is the horn that can benefit most from being made of wood or perhaps another stiffer yet lighter composite. I don't like heavy speakers that can't be moved around by one person easily. The large horn if made of wood would indeed be very heavy and unwieldy. Perhaps more reason for it to be left made of foam. The oblate spheroidal horn that is a Synergy from Red Spade looks pretty nice. 500Hz to 20kHz and fiberglass. Looks huge though. OS may be the next thing I try to build. Not sure if can be made of foam though
hey X - how does your horn sound with male vocals - here's Pavel Lisitsian whom imo had one of the greatest voices in the last 120 years of recording
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ful-5_v9gh4
does this horn have enough power for percussion at a lively level? I'm used to a 200 watt amp into little Karlson cabinets topped with compression driver K-tube and full horn systems
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ful-5_v9gh4
does this horn have enough power for percussion at a lively level? I'm used to a 200 watt amp into little Karlson cabinets topped with compression driver K-tube and full horn systems
I think make vocals sound good too. I have listened to Dire Straits and Mark Knoppfler's voice is rendered very well. Lively percussion seems very good too. That is the thing with this tractrix in a Synergy - it has a lot of dynamic range and is balanced and good at all types of music. Suggest a percussion track on YouTube and I will record it for you to listen with headphones.
Sounds good to me!
I'm just getting some paper together so that I can print off the curved face template Given that it's scaled down as well, do you think with a bit of fiddling I could make two pieces from each sheet?
I have a bandsaw with a terrible blade, but it seems to do well with cutting through cardboard at the moment. I was thinking of printing the template off once, and then stacking a few sheets of the foam core bard, cutting them all at the same time...
I'm just getting some paper together so that I can print off the curved face template
Given that it's scaled down as well, do you think with a bit of fiddling I could make two pieces from each sheet?I have a bandsaw with a terrible blade, but it seems to do well with cutting through cardboard at the moment. I was thinking of printing the template off once, and then stacking a few sheets of the foam core bard, cutting them all at the same time...
Hope this clear some, it's related zobsky asking "How do the Faitals compare to your PRV's subjectively? They're cheaper, for sure".
Somewhere said Synergy constant directivity (CD) are little ala headphones in a room.
Because the little one 0,7x equipped 4xwoofer you have CD going lower in frequency coming from same point thereby room not interfere than PRV/1.0x.
If a direct compare 3FE22/0,7x verse PRV/1.0x i think fair use same 2 way setup and exactly same XO frequency point that is inside both their LF bandwith.
Sound clips for freddi, vocal sound good, drums has lots of reverb effect.
Taken from Faital Pro datasheet 4/8/16 ohm side by side frequency domain 0º/45º 0,1-20Khz both 3FE22/3FE25 i made for own info, attach here if interest.
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Sounds good to me!
I'm just getting some paper together so that I can print off the curved face template
I have a bandsaw with a terrible blade, but it seems to do well with cutting through cardboard at the moment. I was thinking of printing the template off once, and then stacking a few sheets of the foam core bard, cutting them all at the same time...
The saw is not a good idea - it just won't be as accurate as hand cutting each with an xacto and the edge it leave is very rough. It doesn't take long to cut by hand - 5 min per wall. Others have used saws before with multiple layers with bad results.
Yes, you can get two curved walls per sheet as it is 20 in x 15.7. Add a small 0.7 in strip for the throat later with a butt joint of foam core and hot melt glue.
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