More sens from the bare speaker gives more headroom. Even if the response looked better before the phaseplug, I´d stick with the higher sense version (only if no further problems are introduced with the phaseplug, of course).. Some rise in the frequency can easily be dealt with afterwards with the x-over.
Watch the compression ratio - you shouldn´t run into problems with a small midrange driver, but better check than to fry cones
Very nice project !
I keep in acount the compression ratio, and go for one ring and a cone as faseplug.
xrk971 I have already ruin the faseplug, I am buildig a lathe now, I keep you informed. Possible I need also a speaker with stiff cone for testing and compare, for what concerns distortion, when I need to give 13 dB extra power above 3 khz because of cancelations, we get there more distortion, so I go try to make the horn throat chamber smaller, compression rate is not such a problem when use from 300 hz but do take it in account not to smore things. In fact we try to let a big horn do wide band, is normally not done also not with a tractrix because of low pass effects and cancelations in throat chamber.
I did see a nice link for calculation a tractrix.
http://rocketsciencecanada.com/Sound/Horns/TractrixCalc_Mesh.asp
regards
Absolutely critical to have a mic to properly use miniDSP. Small variations in your construction such as smoothness of throat can cause changes that you will only see with a mic and fix with miniDSP or mechanically like Kees did with a file. Don't need a fancy mic - just one to get you in ballpark. If funds are limited get a $2 Panasonic WM61A capsule and follow schematics here:
John Conover: Using the Panasonic WM61A as a Measurement Microphone
You can build a mic for under $5 and the cartridges come basically flat within 2dB from factory. This is what I did until I finally bought calibrated USB mics. A good one is the UMIK-1 from miniDSP.
John Conover: Using the Panasonic WM61A as a Measurement Microphone
You can build a mic for under $5 and the cartridges come basically flat within 2dB from factory. This is what I did until I finally bought calibrated USB mics. A good one is the UMIK-1 from miniDSP.
Now, Kees takes diy speakers to a new level... the man is building a lathe to make a phase plug
Hats off to you man!
Yes time for some beer.
However, I did discover with the volvotreter tractrix calculator that I have calculated for free air, but I use the corners because most do of the wall, this makes the horn conciderable smaller if I see well, that will be good for HF extensions?.
Did you also see that? because yours is also calculated in free air, then I have to measure in free air.
The lathe is just a simple one made from a drill standard with motor, works very well. I just want to now what the plug does. akabak do only give such nice extension because there is no front chamber simulated.
I put some pictures about the different places in home, like corner, wall and free space and see the differents, I do now that it is important how to calculate however I think I have not seen it.
work to do. Middle picture is I have build.
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Akabak has reflection boundary options for corner or near wall/floor placement. It works quite well to show the cancellation dips from back wall or floor bounce. You can add front chamber based on volume of cone, depth, etc - it will make HF fall and can give idea of losses due to that front chamber. Your phase plug should help to reduce that front chamber volume and bring HF extension up.
Yes I do now that but a smaller horn has also worked and better or high extension and if placed in corner
horn kan made smaller, that,s nice I did not see that in past.
akabak however do no show that, but I think small or bigger horn, the low pass effect of front chamber do all the trouble.
I go on with the plugs, it is work to made them, calculating also comrpession factor etc.
regards
I go use these, first make a print with plaster, then make it on the lath.
And test it, as I have read, a tractrix can go HF easely, I have also recalc the horn for wall, or corner, then it is a lot smaller and test it again, mucho work and learning.
regards
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Hi Gents.
Getting a bit inspired here and looking at parts I have on the shelf, wondering if it would be worth trying to build a Trynergy out of what I have on hand?
Drivers: Mid/Top
2 x Vifa TC9FD-18-08
4 x Peerless 850439 http://www.madisound.com/pdf/peerless/850439.pdf
Drivers: Bass
2 x Eminence Delta15LFA in 16x16" H-Frame http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Delta_15LFA.pdf
Electronics:
2 x MiniDSP 2x4 revB
1 x MiniDigi + MiniUSB
6 x 100W - LM4780 (JD)
1 x Umik + REW
Im currently running a 2 way OB but would love to try some synergy style horns.
I will need to read through the whole thread again to track down the relevant resources but thought I would see if these parts could work or are a non starter.
Cheers and great thread!
Dean
Getting a bit inspired here and looking at parts I have on the shelf, wondering if it would be worth trying to build a Trynergy out of what I have on hand?
Drivers: Mid/Top
2 x Vifa TC9FD-18-08
4 x Peerless 850439 http://www.madisound.com/pdf/peerless/850439.pdf
Drivers: Bass
2 x Eminence Delta15LFA in 16x16" H-Frame http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Delta_15LFA.pdf
Electronics:
2 x MiniDSP 2x4 revB
1 x MiniDigi + MiniUSB
6 x 100W - LM4780 (JD)
1 x Umik + REW
Im currently running a 2 way OB but would love to try some synergy style horns.
I will need to read through the whole thread again to track down the relevant resources but thought I would see if these parts could work or are a non starter.
Cheers and great thread!
Dean
Thunk303: you got it all and are set to go! Keep your Delta15LFA in the H frame for now and use it for below 100Hz. The Peerless 850439 looks superbly suited for the mids from 100Hz to 500Hz-700Hz. Use the TC9 above 500Hz. You got plenty of miniDSP action going on there and more than enough amps.
You may want to try a lower Qts driver with a more powerful motor for the main full range, but the TC9FD can be used initially like I did. Faital Pro 3FE22 (8 ohm) is a good alternative, and I suspect, a Fountek FR88EX would be very nice as well with top end brilliance. Although Kees is showing us what a very low cost FRS8 can do in this speaker, so maybe the TC9 is just fine.
If you do this, you will be treated to one of the *best* sounding speakers that I have ever heard. Not kidding.
You may want to try a lower Qts driver with a more powerful motor for the main full range, but the TC9FD can be used initially like I did. Faital Pro 3FE22 (8 ohm) is a good alternative, and I suspect, a Fountek FR88EX would be very nice as well with top end brilliance. Although Kees is showing us what a very low cost FRS8 can do in this speaker, so maybe the TC9 is just fine.
If you do this, you will be treated to one of the *best* sounding speakers that I have ever heard. Not kidding.
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Thanks Xrk!
I am wondering if I could make this a little easie at first and add more later. I have a mates outdoor wedding coming up in 5weeks and this would be much better outdoors than the OB.
Let's say i built the 0.7 scale trynergy with the fr8 and 6.8uf cap.
Then quick mounted it on top of approx 1.2m tall folded TL with the Delta LFA.
So I now have a simple passive speaker with approx 96db output at 1 watt.
Then add a YJblue tpa3116d in each cab with 50 watts per driver and a switch to select either batteries or built in 240v switch mode.
Then I could add the dsp at a later date if I want to get fancy, and possibly even the 850439's.
Thoughts?
I am wondering if I could make this a little easie at first and add more later. I have a mates outdoor wedding coming up in 5weeks and this would be much better outdoors than the OB.
Let's say i built the 0.7 scale trynergy with the fr8 and 6.8uf cap.
Then quick mounted it on top of approx 1.2m tall folded TL with the Delta LFA.
So I now have a simple passive speaker with approx 96db output at 1 watt.
Then add a YJblue tpa3116d in each cab with 50 watts per driver and a switch to select either batteries or built in 240v switch mode.
Then I could add the dsp at a later date if I want to get fancy, and possibly even the 850439's.
Thoughts?
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Ok. So the Delta 15 looks usable to 1k so I could still cut it over to the tc9 or fr8 at 500 to 700, hopefully the low pass xo would be reasonably simple too.
I'm crap with xo design but I can build almost anything and should be able to tease out some test results.
Let me know if this gets too off topic for this thread. Just thinking a semi versatile TL can with a 95db pro driver would be a good cheap accessory with your current gen of the trynergy....
I'm crap with xo design but I can build almost anything and should be able to tease out some test results.
Let me know if this gets too off topic for this thread. Just thinking a semi versatile TL can with a 95db pro driver would be a good cheap accessory with your current gen of the trynergy....
Good point Byrtt. I noticed various models when surfing today. I'll check with kees.
I would like to re-read this thread properly and add some more reference material but I am on my smartphone at my own birthday party so it's all a bit hard at the moment.
Beer is not helping either!
Cheers
Dean
I would like to re-read this thread properly and add some more reference material but I am on my smartphone at my own birthday party so it's all a bit hard at the moment.
Beer is not helping either!
Cheers
Dean
Why don't you just use it active with miniDSP for the wedding? Then you can really get a proper crossover for the woofer/sub. That looks like a good plan - but you could also make a FLH bass horn Then it will be real good throw with the bass.
The tractrix with its directionality and high sensitivity is definitely good for an outdoor event.
Then it will be real good throw with the bass.The tractrix with its directionality and high sensitivity is definitely good for an outdoor event.
Yeah, Adding the MiniDSP should actually be easy.... I think it runs on anything from 12 to 24v dc. Also provides an excuse to have the laptop handy for music mixing and on the fly dsp adjustments. Could even take the tripod and umik for testing.
Thinking of having these on bag trolleys so they can be walked to the top of the valley behind the farm house where the wedding will be held.
Will be interesting to see how big/portable a delta15 FLH will be....
Thinking of having these on bag trolleys so they can be walked to the top of the valley behind the farm house where the wedding will be held.
Will be interesting to see how big/portable a delta15 FLH will be....
One of the interesting things about this project is since converting to OB a few years ago I have been missing dynamics. I thinks it's one of the factors I enjoy most about listening to music.
There must be a few thousand diy'ers about that would be interested in taking their mjking eminence + full range drivers and going the horned route.
I wonder how flexible a FLH could be made for this category of drivers?
With the MiniDSP in the mix everything gets another level of flexibility.
There must be a few thousand diy'ers about that would be interested in taking their mjking eminence + full range drivers and going the horned route.
I wonder how flexible a FLH could be made for this category of drivers?
With the MiniDSP in the mix everything gets another level of flexibility.
You need the FRS8M with a strong motor, has 0.47 qts.
the others are to weak for a horn has higher qts valeus, even the FRS8M is a little to weak with 0,47 qts, qts below 0.35 is ideal for also high extentions.
regards
If we are looking for low Qts powerful motor look at this one I just tested in Blind Subjective thread.
Tang Band W2-852SH. Fair price at $22 and 0.29 Qts. It's 2in though so may be perfect for an adapter with phase plug for round to square throat.
http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/264-808-tang-band-w2-852sh-specifications-45644.pdf
Tang Band W2-852SH. Fair price at $22 and 0.29 Qts. It's 2in though so may be perfect for an adapter with phase plug for round to square throat.
http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/264-808-tang-band-w2-852sh-specifications-45644.pdf