Well said Bernhard. I second that motion. My other favourite audio webplace has turned nasty recently, and some very knowledgeable and learned people are obviously staying away. That saddens me as I have been inspired, and often helped directly by them.
Each generation should be able to see farther than the one before, as they can stand on their giants' shoulders. With no giants around, we can only see the mud in front of our feet.
Regards
PS: HPotter, potting circuits is a great idea, until you have to work on them. Then they suck, bad.
The exception would be if you use bees wax, as a company I formerly worked for did with high reliability buried components. It pretty easy to heat out (but messy), has good dielectric performance, reduces moisture / condensation / corrosion and is very good at damping the components in high vibration environments. There are some devices in place over two decades with no services at all.
I personally don't think it is worth the hassle for most people, especially the neurotic tweakers,
, but if you try it let us know how you go.Harry,
hope i guessed right about your typo
a few years ago, there was an interesting discussion on potting transformers on the JoeNet . It was triggered by a Sound Practices article written by Mike LaFevre on the topic who strongly favoured to avoid potting. Mike brougt several points against it and everyone had to agree to any of those points qulitatively bt a hot discussion arose on how significant those points were in reality. AFAIR, the issue was settled on better not to pot due to stray capacitances and the potting goo being dielectrically inferior to air and thafact that a potted trannie -- or circuit in our cases has any ingredient of a medium quality capacitor. But the preference was not very strong AFAIR.
To me, servicability is a must and if i have to get my 3d p2p wiring rugged, i shape it like a 3d framework (for what am i a mechanical engineer
) supporting itself. Triangles yaknow ... just instinct but i would avoid potting. On the day i may become a manufacturer, i continue to avoid potting, i never would grind off the print of a semiconductor or the like, not my style.There is another thing, some tweaking freaks swear on Ennemosers fancy c37 and i want to try to coat a whole circuit with this stuff one day to find out if and how sonics are concerned. So. no potting in my book. What if a corrupt solder joint shows up some days after?
Hello dice45, and all,
" Posted by dice45 on 03-01-2002 03:31 AM:
Re: Re: wire direction
Hello MrFeedback and seangoesbonk,
may i express my utter unease with what i read here?
This is a friendly, helpful, constructive, mutually respectful place, atleast if not two fellows try to scratch out each others eyes.
MrFeedback,
my initial response to your post was "ouch, this smells like smoke". Although i can second your experience in cases (not in all cases) i found your generalizations hard to swallow and sensed your tone as provocative, telegram style, not finding it necessary to mention environmental details. In your later reply post i read
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thought I might get flamed- anyway..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
. Honestly, if i trap myself in typing such or apologizing in advance for what i write, i do not post at all. A good sign something is terribly wrong with my attitude, a good warning not to post. I don't want cause flames.
Later you defend yourself and your points and that is your good right, but heck, have you to do it with teacher attitude and erected forefinger? Pours more oil in the flames (and we do not yet know what is coming).
To make it clear, i do not complain about what you said, but about how you said it. "
Hello all,
Sorry dice45 and all, if my initial post seemed provocative, telegram style etc.
My purpose was merely to add some benefit of some of my observations, conversations and experiences and add to the sum pool of our knowlege regarding audio reproduction, both objective and subjective, and to learn of other's experiences in this area, in a mature, sensible, scientific and egoless manner.
( i.e - " friendly, helpful, constructive, mutually respectful " )
My reference to flaming was to acknowledge rudeness, to my first statement of "Directional characteristic of wire needs to be taken into account ", and utilised or negated, when assigning conductor paths in P-P wired system.
I hoped for responses, sensible and constructive only.
To Bernard, thanks for your comments, observations and philosophies - should be more of it.
To - "some wires/cables show directionality effects, but some do not"
Yes, can be good thing, sometimes not. My point is non-directional cables can be built if you want.
To - "it took me 20 minutes to learn to notice the differences . Once you had it, you never want to miss it again."
Yes, and once you understand the sonic difference, you are stuck with it I have found. Wrong polarity sounds wrong.
I find compilation cds to be recorded with just about every second track inverted, and you have to switch polarity all the time. Aahh, but it is worth it.
To - "the simple physical models we made to "understand" the world are too simple".
Yes, the simple models (theories) explain the summary truth, but not nessecerily the whole truth, or the detail truth.
An open mind is required, when investigating subjects such as hi-res audio.
Hello Brett, Thankyou for reinforcing Bernard's words.
Hello Leroy, "I want to keep this place nice too"
Thankyou, and I think we are all like minded on this subject
Hello HPotter, adding dielctric material around circuit WILL add/change flavour of sound.
I'll happily eat beeswax, but not epoxy - you might need to think about this one.
Regards, Eric
BTW - Any one have experience of shakti stones or mapingo - comments in new subject perhaps?
" Posted by dice45 on 03-01-2002 03:31 AM:
Re: Re: wire direction
Hello MrFeedback and seangoesbonk,
may i express my utter unease with what i read here?
This is a friendly, helpful, constructive, mutually respectful place, atleast if not two fellows try to scratch out each others eyes.
MrFeedback,
my initial response to your post was "ouch, this smells like smoke". Although i can second your experience in cases (not in all cases) i found your generalizations hard to swallow and sensed your tone as provocative, telegram style, not finding it necessary to mention environmental details. In your later reply post i read
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thought I might get flamed- anyway..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
. Honestly, if i trap myself in typing such or apologizing in advance for what i write, i do not post at all. A good sign something is terribly wrong with my attitude, a good warning not to post. I don't want cause flames.
Later you defend yourself and your points and that is your good right, but heck, have you to do it with teacher attitude and erected forefinger? Pours more oil in the flames (and we do not yet know what is coming).
To make it clear, i do not complain about what you said, but about how you said it. "
Hello all,
Sorry dice45 and all, if my initial post seemed provocative, telegram style etc.My purpose was merely to add some benefit of some of my observations, conversations and experiences and add to the sum pool of our knowlege regarding audio reproduction, both objective and subjective, and to learn of other's experiences in this area, in a mature, sensible, scientific and egoless manner.
( i.e - " friendly, helpful, constructive, mutually respectful " )
My reference to flaming was to acknowledge rudeness, to my first statement of "Directional characteristic of wire needs to be taken into account ", and utilised or negated, when assigning conductor paths in P-P wired system.
I hoped for responses, sensible and constructive only.
To Bernard, thanks for your comments, observations and philosophies - should be more of it.
To - "some wires/cables show directionality effects, but some do not"
Yes, can be good thing, sometimes not. My point is non-directional cables can be built if you want.
To - "it took me 20 minutes to learn to notice the differences . Once you had it, you never want to miss it again."
Yes, and once you understand the sonic difference, you are stuck with it I have found. Wrong polarity sounds wrong.
I find compilation cds to be recorded with just about every second track inverted, and you have to switch polarity all the time. Aahh, but it is worth it.
To - "the simple physical models we made to "understand" the world are too simple".
Yes, the simple models (theories) explain the summary truth, but not nessecerily the whole truth, or the detail truth.
An open mind is required, when investigating subjects such as hi-res audio.
Hello Brett, Thankyou for reinforcing Bernard's words.
Hello Leroy, "I want to keep this place nice too"
Thankyou, and I think we are all like minded on this subject
Hello HPotter, adding dielctric material around circuit WILL add/change flavour of sound.
I'll happily eat beeswax, but not epoxy - you might need to think about this one.
Regards, Eric
BTW - Any one have experience of shakti stones or mapingo - comments in new subject perhaps?
Re: direction detection
And you, of course, have done these tests double blind? As you should well know, the ear/brain combination is a very fallible piece of measurement apparatus. What it hears is dependent on so many variables. Your position, whether you shifted between listening, the humidity, the temperature and so on.....
If you want to say that a piece of wire sounds better to you (I'd love to know the mechanism) then that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion and no-one is entitled to attempt to take it away from you.
However, when you make absolute statements as you have (it sounds .......) then it seems to me that it's incumbent on you to prove it.
Can you?
regards, Keith
HarryHaller said:
And you, of course, have done these tests double blind? As you should well know, the ear/brain combination is a very fallible piece of measurement apparatus. What it hears is dependent on so many variables. Your position, whether you shifted between listening, the humidity, the temperature and so on.....
If you want to say that a piece of wire sounds better to you (I'd love to know the mechanism) then that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion and no-one is entitled to attempt to take it away from you.
However, when you make absolute statements as you have (it sounds .......) then it seems to me that it's incumbent on you to prove it.
Can you?
regards, Keith
Hello Keithj , I have done these tests drunk, and with my eyes closed - Is that the double blind testing you mean?
More seriously, my flat mate and I were well practiced at blind testing and distinuishing correctly between 5 different interconnects, consistantly and repeatedly.
And when using one pair of interconnects, distinguish direction consistantly.
If you have a very clean, detailed, polarity correct and phase flat system, and you have listened to each of the cables long enough to get a proper handle on the imparted sounds, then it is not at all difficult.
But you need the above provisos.
Regards, Eric.
More seriously, my flat mate and I were well practiced at blind testing and distinuishing correctly between 5 different interconnects, consistantly and repeatedly.
And when using one pair of interconnects, distinguish direction consistantly.
If you have a very clean, detailed, polarity correct and phase flat system, and you have listened to each of the cables long enough to get a proper handle on the imparted sounds, then it is not at all difficult.
But you need the above provisos.
Regards, Eric.
Re: Re: direction detection
One should keep in mind that double blind tests are not infalible... for instance, statistically, the commonly used ABX double blind trials have been shown to not have enuff power to show that there isn't a difference between DUTs. ie if the trials don't turn up a difference, it doesn't mean there is no difference.
dave
Keithj said:
One should keep in mind that double blind tests are not infalible... for instance, statistically, the commonly used ABX double blind trials have been shown to not have enuff power to show that there isn't a difference between DUTs. ie if the trials don't turn up a difference, it doesn't mean there is no difference.
dave
Re: Re: Re: direction detection
Ah, now, that's true. However they're statistically a darned sight more accurate than a single person who says that there is a difference. And who can't back it up.
regards, Keith.
And now Grey will accuse me of stirring; to which I plead guilty as charged y'honour. But I would like the people here who assert that there is directionality in cables to back it up with something verifiable, after all, if there is an effect, it must be observable mustn't it?
planet10 said:
Ah, now, that's true. However they're statistically a darned sight more accurate than a single person who says that there is a difference. And who can't back it up.
regards, Keith.
And now Grey will accuse me of stirring; to which I plead guilty as charged y'honour. But I would like the people here who assert that there is directionality in cables to back it up with something verifiable, after all, if there is an effect, it must be observable mustn't it?
Hello, Keithj of the far east island, yes you are accused of stirring.
"Ah, now, that's true. However they're statistically a darned sight more accurate than a single person who says that there is a difference. And who can't back it up.
regards, Keith. "
Can you back that up?
Anyway, if only one person on the planet reckons that they can hear a difference, it's worth a investigating isn't it?
I think far too much importance has been ascribed to statistical anayses, given that there is a whole swag of variables, eg - listener fatige, playback system familiarity, sample music familiarity, to name a small few, that are not allowed for in the mathmatical process.
These differences are not night and day perhaps, and as Bernard related so neatly regarding absoloute polarity, - "it took me 20 minutes to learn to notice the differences . Once you had it, you never want to miss it again."
Once you have heard and understood and applied these differences - absoloute polarity and phase linearity at least, you can begin to hear additional difference like cable direction, and then apply them in correct measure to get a resultant playback system that "cranks".
If you listen quietly, you have a chance to hear.
Regards, Eric.
"Ah, now, that's true. However they're statistically a darned sight more accurate than a single person who says that there is a difference. And who can't back it up.
regards, Keith. "
Can you back that up?Anyway, if only one person on the planet reckons that they can hear a difference, it's worth a investigating isn't it?
I think far too much importance has been ascribed to statistical anayses, given that there is a whole swag of variables, eg - listener fatige, playback system familiarity, sample music familiarity, to name a small few, that are not allowed for in the mathmatical process.
These differences are not night and day perhaps, and as Bernard related so neatly regarding absoloute polarity, - "it took me 20 minutes to learn to notice the differences . Once you had it, you never want to miss it again."
Once you have heard and understood and applied these differences - absoloute polarity and phase linearity at least, you can begin to hear additional difference like cable direction, and then apply them in correct measure to get a resultant playback system that "cranks".
If you listen quietly, you have a chance to hear.
Regards, Eric.
Keith,
don't think you are stirring (and i am atleast as sensitive for that as Grey ) but i doubt there is an absolute thruth. If i read another audio buddy's statement, seconding what i expect to be the situation, i feel released and happy because trying the thing out myself has a considerable probability of not wasting my money and time all too much.
But i have finally to decide alone for myself whether the audio experiment under consideration has the sonic influence i want to have and to live with and whether enough significance for me or whether i am fooling myself. I have to decide. Because i create my own audio universe and i have to live in it later. Nobody is responsible for the result except me.
Each of us is creating his own audio universe; that is the initial reason we do DIY audio. Dunno if everyone would agree this to be the only and strongest reason and dunno either if everyone is aware how highly subjective the whole topic is.
A lot can be covered by engineering knowledge but many things influencing audio are completely unexplainable with what we know. And different people show different sensitivity for different sonics.
Let me give you an example of a statement i as an engineer found really hard to swallow. I started an open baffle speaker project and i interviewed buddies advanced in this field concerning their experiences. One of them warned me that ANY change, construction, wood, thickness, varnish, varnish polish changes sonics and reported for example that he once changed the wooden feet of his highly tweaked (highly tweked to HIS taste) full range open baffle speaker for esthetical reasons. Sonics changed considerably to his utter surprise. He changed from cubic to shperical shape, same wood, same varnish, only the shape different.
What can i say? all i can say is that once i have reached that level, i have to try it out myself.
But, back to topic, i for myself found directionality of wires to be too minute to pay attention to it, to me this is a peripherical question and other changes in my gear can easily mask it out and after all (coupling caps e.g.), i am not all the time ABX or ABA or BAB listening to minute sonic adjustments, in fact i prefer to listen to music. I have never found cable directionality affecting musicality, µdynamix, PRaT, long term listenability (as is the case with most coupling caps IMO and Vinylsavor claims i am kind of the listening-to-grass-growing type, he doesn't find much differences in coupling caps at all) but maybe i have not yet reached the level where cable directionality is becoming important
don't think you are stirring (and i am atleast as sensitive for that as Grey
) but i doubt there is an absolute thruth. If i read another audio buddy's statement, seconding what i expect to be the situation, i feel released and happy because trying the thing out myself has a considerable probability of not wasting my money and time all too much. But i have finally to decide alone for myself whether the audio experiment under consideration has the sonic influence i want to have and to live with and whether enough significance for me or whether i am fooling myself. I have to decide. Because i create my own audio universe and i have to live in it later. Nobody is responsible for the result except me.
Each of us is creating his own audio universe; that is the initial reason we do DIY audio. Dunno if everyone would agree this to be the only and strongest reason and dunno either if everyone is aware how highly subjective the whole topic is.
A lot can be covered by engineering knowledge but many things influencing audio are completely unexplainable with what we know. And different people show different sensitivity for different sonics.
Let me give you an example of a statement i as an engineer found really hard to swallow. I started an open baffle speaker project and i interviewed buddies advanced in this field concerning their experiences. One of them warned me that ANY change, construction, wood, thickness, varnish, varnish polish changes sonics and reported for example that he once changed the wooden feet of his highly tweaked (highly tweked to HIS taste) full range open baffle speaker for esthetical reasons. Sonics changed considerably to his utter surprise. He changed from cubic to shperical shape, same wood, same varnish, only the shape different.
What can i say? all i can say is that once i have reached that level, i have to try it out myself.
But, back to topic, i for myself found directionality of wires to be too minute to pay attention to it, to me this is a peripherical question and other changes in my gear can easily mask it out and after all (coupling caps e.g.), i am not all the time ABX or ABA or BAB listening to minute sonic adjustments, in fact i prefer to listen to music. I have never found cable directionality affecting musicality, µdynamix, PRaT, long term listenability (as is the case with most coupling caps IMO and Vinylsavor claims i am kind of the listening-to-grass-growing type, he doesn't find much differences in coupling caps at all) but maybe i have not yet reached the level where cable directionality is becoming important
Hi Bernard, Thankyou for your nice comments re DIY audio universe - Yes of course audio is individually subjective - thats the point - but in amongst all the system combinations can be a replay perfomance that pleases almost all people really well - that means your wife, mother in law, neighbours, friends, children, pets and yourself, and probably in that order !
"as an engineer found really hard to swallow" - preconcieved ideas ?
Systems can be overly electrically/mechanically reactive I find, and this can cause a system to be overly sensitive to minute system setup changes - positioning and cables etc..
This suggests load sensitivity (loop feedbacks) mainly I expect .
The ultimate system I reckon is when you live mix a band that you like on a good loud live system that you like and you have had plenty of afternoon time to fine tune mic positions and foldback system to get the system cooking (siiting right) before the show.
Then you can play with a really serious hifi and and tune levels and eqs to really get all the foot tapping (and trouser flapping)you/I could ever want ! - maybe the crowd too!
This is not SE tube territory !
Re: cable direction I mean my observations as food for thought when constructing a system - If a system is to be stereo, all parameters need to be identical channel/channel and this includes cable/wire direction - if there is a difference (but both of us agree that we have heard it)
This is an easy mistake if you are not aware of the possibility/fact - in my first hifi 20 years ago, I fitted the hardwired turntable interconnect cables channel directions reversed ( 1 length of cable halved ). I spent a couple of years experimenting with amp and speakers and had top sound but still couldn't get the balance to center correctly (on phono input from Shure V-15) until I understood the effect and corrected the situation. Then the system came alive and staged much better.
If a system is exhibiting some kind of non linear behavior (distortion), polarised magnetic effects I venture are a valid (relatively minor but still there - and subjectivism is the expression of these nuances)
influence to be understood and applied.
These final tuning tweaks although fine, can be significant to the feel good factor in my experience.
Regards Eric
"as an engineer found really hard to swallow" - preconcieved ideas ?
Systems can be overly electrically/mechanically reactive I find, and this can cause a system to be overly sensitive to minute system setup changes - positioning and cables etc..
This suggests load sensitivity (loop feedbacks) mainly I expect .
The ultimate system I reckon is when you live mix a band that you like on a good loud live system that you like and you have had plenty of afternoon time to fine tune mic positions and foldback system to get the system cooking (siiting right) before the show.
Then you can play with a really serious hifi and and tune levels and eqs to really get all the foot tapping (and trouser flapping)you/I could ever want ! - maybe the crowd too!
This is not SE tube territory !
Re: cable direction I mean my observations as food for thought when constructing a system - If a system is to be stereo, all parameters need to be identical channel/channel and this includes cable/wire direction - if there is a difference (but both of us agree that we have heard it)
This is an easy mistake if you are not aware of the possibility/fact - in my first hifi 20 years ago, I fitted the hardwired turntable interconnect cables channel directions reversed ( 1 length of cable halved ). I spent a couple of years experimenting with amp and speakers and had top sound but still couldn't get the balance to center correctly (on phono input from Shure V-15) until I understood the effect and corrected the situation. Then the system came alive and staged much better.
If a system is exhibiting some kind of non linear behavior (distortion), polarised magnetic effects I venture are a valid (relatively minor but still there - and subjectivism is the expression of these nuances)
influence to be understood and applied.
These final tuning tweaks although fine, can be significant to the feel good factor in my experience.
Regards Eric
dice45 said:Keith,
don't think you are stirring (and i am atleast as sensitive for that as Grey
Ah now. Each person has his/her own opinion of what is best. That's personal to them and should not be attacked or denigrated in any way. That's not what I'm talking about.
What I DO complain about is the person who makes an absolute statement (cables are directional) and who can't back it up with facts or tests of any sort.
If you want to say "To my ears, cables are directional", then it's your opinion.
So, I throw out the challenge to those who say cables are directional. Prove it. Back it up with facts. You've made an absolute statement now let's see some facts. The results of an ABX test would be good, or a double blind. There's need to be independent verification of the results of course.
Good luck...
regards, Keith
You sound like you are scared of the fact that cables are directional. If you don't here the difference you should be glad since the rest of us who do are in much bigger trouble of finding the right direction. It takes quite a lot of time to find the proper connection with the custom cables which are not marked. For a bi- amped system there are 40 different combinations for left/right channel, cables from a source to preamp, preamp to amps, amps to speakers. I built my silver cables myself and I can here the difference in the directionality (even my not audiofile wife does) but facing so many choices I don't even bother, I just enjoy the music.
Keith,
), anyone of us can let slip his attention "in the heat of the battle" and forget to type the obligatory IMO or IMHO. So let's give him the benefit of the doubt, ok?
Apart from that, sorry for having to be that blunt, but a thing clearly audible to 8 out of 10 may be inaudible to -- guess whom? -- you, belonging to the 2 out of 10 ! Or me, too belonging to the 2 out of 10.
And the reason can but need to to be related to
* cable interfering with amplifiers
* system's detail resolution / musicality / µdynamix / etc. not good enough
* listeners sensistivity or experience (what to focus on) no high enough
* whatever
So, the guy who made the absolute statement (do not remember who and do not care) has embarrased himself enough, let him survive his goof, ok? I doubt he will let become it a habit
of course you are right with complaining about absolute statements, no question, but let's be a bit patient with each other, okay? Although i cannot remember having made an absolute statement concerning sonics in this thread or in eons (sounds pathetic, yes, and sometimes one of my buddies proves my memory wrong
), anyone of us can let slip his attention "in the heat of the battle" and forget to type the obligatory IMO or IMHO. So let's give him the benefit of the doubt, ok?Apart from that, sorry for having to be that blunt, but a thing clearly audible to 8 out of 10 may be inaudible to -- guess whom? -- you, belonging to the 2 out of 10 ! Or me, too belonging to the 2 out of 10.
And the reason can but need to to be related to
* cable interfering with amplifiers
* system's detail resolution / musicality / µdynamix / etc. not good enough
* listeners sensistivity or experience (what to focus on) no high enough
* whatever
So, the guy who made the absolute statement (do not remember who and do not care) has embarrased himself enough, let him survive his goof, ok? I doubt he will let become it a habit
Wire,Wine, and Whiners.
I cannot not taste the difference between good wines but I don't accuse those who can of fraud! Like many of life's finer things it is a matter of degree, experience, patience, oppourtunity, and training. No one will think less of you if you can't hear, won't hear, or don't care about the difference. It is not a contest. There is no reward or punishment involved. No one will ever get the "Nobel Prize for Hearing". Those of us who know or care will just have to go on without your blessing and good opinion of us. It is a tragic loss, but I guess we will muddle on somehow....... Dice45 is too kind. I wish he would go on a good rant one of these days and name names and kick ***. Oh ya....even though I am fat and middle aged and can't run very far or fast, I still managed to enjoy the Olympics on TV this year without resenting any of the athletes. Someone asked how to become an art critic once and the reply was "That's easy, just look at a million paintings." How many wires have you listened to?
H.H.
I cannot not taste the difference between good wines but I don't accuse those who can of fraud! Like many of life's finer things it is a matter of degree, experience, patience, oppourtunity, and training. No one will think less of you if you can't hear, won't hear, or don't care about the difference. It is not a contest. There is no reward or punishment involved. No one will ever get the "Nobel Prize for Hearing". Those of us who know or care will just have to go on without your blessing and good opinion of us. It is a tragic loss, but I guess we will muddle on somehow....... Dice45 is too kind. I wish he would go on a good rant one of these days and name names and kick ***. Oh ya....even though I am fat and middle aged and can't run very far or fast, I still managed to enjoy the Olympics on TV this year without resenting any of the athletes. Someone asked how to become an art critic once and the reply was "That's easy, just look at a million paintings." How many wires have you listened to?
H.H.
Did I see you mention time-domain reflectometry somewhere?
Easy to spot differences if you have different shield configurations, not so easy to see other "directional" effects.
Which, for some bizarre reason seem to take place.
"Bits is bits." Except when SPDIF is involved.
And don't even start me on that AES/EBU kludge.
Or 75 ohm RCA jacks.
Jocko
Easy to spot differences if you have different shield configurations, not so easy to see other "directional" effects.
Which, for some bizarre reason seem to take place.
"Bits is bits." Except when SPDIF is involved.
And don't even start me on that AES/EBU kludge.
Or 75 ohm RCA jacks.
Jocko
Harry,
Wanna see me rant !? simply start flaming and then ..YAFIYGI !!
But i prefer to keep flames from developing, i had too much on other forums.
Kind? well, i ask from me what i ask from others. And try to fulfill it.
Moreover, kind does not necessarily mean appreciating.
Dtopic,
have to agree with the rest what you wrote, completely my point.
Jocko,
you have that at hand? you mananged to impress me!
My buddy Thomas Mayer (Vinylsavor) would completely agree with you on SPDIF in the D->A path (not in the A->D path). And he is right, proved it. He built the best DAC i know, outperforming any $$$ retail product i listened to, having almost vinyl qualities. Outperforming retail SACD.
I am not deep enough into this stuff, but noone managed to explain me why the drive should be allowed to force its clock on the DAC and bring the jitter developing during transmission with it unasked.
The DAC should clock the drive, not inverse! And data and clock should be transmitted in separate.
75Ohm only? RCA jacks are evil IMO. Did a big listening comparison on connectors and switches a few years ago and RCAs all were awful to my ears, way apart form the qualities of a solder joint (my reference).
Worst RCAs jacks were those
milled out of the full, best were the chaep Rhodioum plated sheetmetal ones. 2nd best RCA plugs were also chep sheet metal ones, best were Nuetriks. But all were awful.
Have a plug competing with the solder joint: the cheap Lemo series called Redel. Works even better than Lemos (suppose because their housing is hightech plastic, not metalwork) and a plug and a jack together is below $12.
BTW, no other connector or rotary switch or knitter switch reached that level. Hence my whole new system will be equipped with Lemo/Redel and if i need RCAs, i will make some adapters.
Wanna see me rant !? simply start flaming and then ..YAFIYGI !!
But i prefer to keep flames from developing, i had too much on other forums.
Kind? well, i ask from me what i ask from others. And try to fulfill it.
Moreover, kind does not necessarily mean appreciating.
Dtopic,
have to agree with the rest what you wrote, completely my point.
Jocko,
you have that at hand? you mananged to impress me!
My buddy Thomas Mayer (Vinylsavor) would completely agree with you on SPDIF in the D->A path (not in the A->D path). And he is right, proved it. He built the best DAC i know, outperforming any $$$ retail product i listened to, having almost vinyl qualities. Outperforming retail SACD.
I am not deep enough into this stuff, but noone managed to explain me why the drive should be allowed to force its clock on the DAC and bring the jitter developing during transmission with it unasked.
The DAC should clock the drive, not inverse! And data and clock should be transmitted in separate.
75Ohm only? RCA jacks are evil IMO. Did a big listening comparison on connectors and switches a few years ago and RCAs all were awful to my ears, way apart form the qualities of a solder joint (my reference).
Worst RCAs jacks were those
milled out of the full, best were the chaep Rhodioum plated sheetmetal ones. 2nd best RCA plugs were also chep sheet metal ones, best were Nuetriks. But all were awful.
Have a plug competing with the solder joint: the cheap Lemo series called Redel. Works even better than Lemos (suppose because their housing is hightech plastic, not metalwork) and a plug and a jack together is below $12.
BTW, no other connector or rotary switch or knitter switch reached that level. Hence my whole new system will be equipped with Lemo/Redel and if i need RCAs, i will make some adapters.