Playstation as CD-player

[Greg Stewart]

Re: Re: A few days on...

<SNIP>
I decided to keep the original box (I like the novelty) and original SMPS inside. One area that does hold a fascination for me are the tiny caps that remain close to the DAC.
<SNIP>
Almost impossible to replace, except that surface mounts OSCONS exist.

Jives, do try it with the top of the case off... it made a very nice difference in my system.

I am very interested in upgrading the PS decoupling around the DAC... can you suggest good sources for those surface-mount OSCONs?

Hi at all,
@Greg
i can confirm all that you wrote about sounding of the PS. If you have a subwoofer there is also a deep and verry clean Bass without any contorsions.
All in one there is a sound like an analog player. This is it what i prefere.
On my homepage you can see some pictures of my modifications and new housing.
http://www.highend-info.de

Regards Dommi

Dommi, thanks for mentioning the bass... I should have too. It has impressive power AND articulation.

Nice pix on your website... thanks for sharing.

Greg in Minneapolis

 

[Greg Stewart]

Re: Re: Weekend Labors

thanks dommi for your input.

i will give the bolting down of the transport a try and see how it sounds. should be good hopefully.

I'll try this too... could be very good, especially if the rest of the structure is well-damped.

Greg,
IMHO this is misleading: Tweaking a PS with the most expensive and so-called-by-experts 'best' parts will result in a completely new product which will lack the charm of the original version with and as well without the recommended and widely accepted modifications.

You´ve tried to specify a number of reasons (which I´d like to second in parts) why a apparent simple playstation can be so good. One of the reasons is the SOTA PSU. Just a subtle hint: Have a look at the PSU of the drive of the Krell SACD Standard. Are there an differences

You bring up some good points. I personally don't have a lot of experience with modifying SMPS's... I am mostly reporting what I've read. I can do an experiment... I have a Panasonic S47 DVD player modified by Electronic Visionary Systems where he did a number of these things to the SMPS... and I have two un-modified units. Later this year if I get some time, I'll try swapping out the SMPS's between the units and see what I hear.

Of course, by then, I may have modified a PS-1 SMPS and have a report to share on what that does!

My questions:
- undamped and uncovered PSU to be laid on the floor?
- how long was the cable you chose?

AFAIK the separation of the PSU and the Playstation drive is the best advantage. I´d like to recommend a 2nd try with a boxed PSU not far away from the Playstation.

I tried it with the undamped and uncovered SMPS laid directly on a hardwood floor and on a heatshrink-covered transformer core (poor-man's VPI brick). My cables were about 50cm long. Both sounded the same to me.

I will try it as you suggest with a shorter cable and a box around it.

P.S.: I have components to listen to music, not music to listen to components, as my dear friend John quotes.

That is so true for me too... and that's why I love the PS-1, it has brought more music into the digital side of my system!

I am a little unfamiliar with what the DC blocking cap actually does -- I have tried to search -- but not came across a specific definition. Trent

Trent, music is a mostly AC signal and your speakers and electronics are not designed or able to handle DC on the signal. At best it will degrade the sound... at the worse, it can harm your gear!

Many electronic circuit's output includes a DC component that therefore must be removed... hence the DC-blocking caps.

If you don't know if your downstream components have blocking caps at their inputs, then you don't want to take chances and add them at the output of the PS-1

I haven't been much of a fan of the PSX PSU. It gets hot and generally l ooks undersized to me. I have been thinking of making a PSU. A much simpler one. But now I read here that this one is very good.

Maybe old news. But I can't remember seeing it uploaded here, or a link to it. It's from the SCPH-7500 service manual. It's the best I can do. I have never seen a 100X manual.

The file is too big! It's a single-page PDF file. I'll scale down it somehow and upload it as soon as I can.

Quite a coup, sir! Thanks very much for the schematic. While it is different in detail from the 1001 SMPS, it is close in overall scheme and will be very useful!

Greg in Minneapolis

 

[Greg Stewart]

PS-1 Mod Summary...

I spent some time gathering all the mods I saw here and ones I know from other CD mod threads on this and other forums into one long outline... I post it here for feedback and additions.

I broke the mods into three areas... vibration control, PS mods, and signal path mods. Then in each area, I categorized the mods by Basic/Easy, High Value, Extreme, and Experimental.

I expect this list will provoke some comments!

Greg in Minneapolis

Vibration Control

- Basic/Easy
- Isolation
- Aftermarket Feet or DIY damping
- Herbie's
- Sorbothane
- Innertube
- Navcom
- Vibrapods
- Rollerballs
- Etc
- Structure elimination
- Pop the top off

- High Value
- Damp the structure
- Dynamat or similar
- On base, top, metal shield, CD mech
- Damp components
- Ends of caps
- Cap bands
- IC chip damping
- Circuit board damping
- CD Damping
- Herbie's
- Others to suite

- Extreme
- New enclosure
- Wooden box
- CD Damping
- clamping pucks
- Remove un-needed structure
- controller & memory slots
- top-closed switch
- Buy a Dynastation

- Experimental
- New structure
- Maple Shell
- Oracle-styled open frame
- Replace shielding
- Extreme vibration control
- C23 laquer treatment
- Diamond dust slurries (per Tonemaniac from Audio Asylum)
- Rigid mounting of CD drive



Power Supply Improvements

- Basic/Easy
- Ferrite on AC Cord

- High Value
- Separate SMPS from case

- Extreme
- New PS
- Battery
- Linear with basic regulation
- Linear with extreme regulation
- High-Current Power Supply (ala old PS Audio)
- Experience Electronics Linear PS kit
- Buy a Dynastation

- Experimental
- Further PS Separation
- Additional decoupling
- for DAC
- for transport
- additional separate supplies
- for DAC
- Power cords
- AC enhancers
- SMPS Mods
- Diode upgrades
- Capacitor upgrades
- AC filter cap upgrades
- AC filter choke upgrades
- Remove un-needed components
- LED
- Switches
- Ceramic fuse
- Better filtering on power-supply connecting cable



Signal Path Improvements

- Basic/Easy
- Using the AV Multi Output

- High Value
- Connecting directly between DAC output and RCA jacks
- Upgraded DC coupling caps

- Extreme
- Replace output jacks
- Experience Electronics tube output stage kit
- Buy a Dynastation

- Experimental
- IC shielding with copper tape
- Plating steel shields with copper
- remove un-needed output plugs
- remove un-needed circuitry (need a good schematic!)
- ERS cloth
- Musicoat
- Blue LEDs around CD mechanism
- Upgraded clock

* Sorry, my formatting doesn't come across in the post, so I've attached a text file too.

 

[jives11]

Re: Re: Re: A few days on...

Jives, do try it with the top of the case off... it made a very nice difference in my system.

I am very interested in upgrading the PS decoupling around the DAC... can you suggest good sources for those surface-mount OSCONs?

Hi Greg,
take a look at www.farnell.com

specifically eitms like:

http://export.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp?SKU=9189092&N=401

Now I'm not sure of the precise values we need . The PSOne caps appear to be 10uF /16V according to the numbers on top, but I notice that some of the smaller caps feature the same numbers !?

I guess the highest uF value which will fit in the tiny space. Greater uF is not going to stress this PSU !

 

[Greg Stewart]

Thx... I'll look there.

Uuuhhhh... don't you sleep?

Greg in Minneapolis

 

[jives11]

Thx... I'll look there.

Uuuhhhh... don't you sleep?

Greg in Minneapolis

was 7 am where I am - had been up an hour

 

[mrskinny]

For power supply schematics try- www.eserviceinfo.com/index.php?what=search2&searchstring=PLAYSTATION+2 Download the ps power folder.

 

[phn]

For power supply schematics try- www.eserviceinfo.com/index.php?what=search2&searchstring=PLAYSTATION+2 Download the ps power folder.

That's where I got it. I just didn't remember where I got it.

While I'm at it, I have a question. If you want to remove the LED on the PSX PSU, how do you go about it? Do you just short-circuit it? This is one of those questions I have to get out of the way. It doesn't concern only the PSX. There's a stupid LED on the remote receiver as well. But this is about the PSX.

 

[DragonMaster]

Don't short it, remove it.

Also a bit of electrical tape on it could do the same thing and you would be sure to cause no problems.

 

[phn]

DragonMaster, thanks.

 

[ttrentt]

I finally got a chance to do the Mick mod. I used a .47uF Cap and 22K resistor. I am reboxing the unit, will hopefully add some controls to the front panel using a core controller. I don't need a remote

What differences would I see using different uF caps? Should I try a 3.3uF or a 4.7? I Don't understand what it would actually change.

 

[kmj]

I also did some fiddling in my -1002. I however just made the adjustments. The reason is that I've had som problems playing newer CDs and thought that it was time to do something about it. After an hour of adjusting the different settings I still couldn't play some records without starting it up with an older record. After shouting some rather colourful words it occured to me....
I live in Sweden, so welcome to the wonderful world of Copyprotection. The kind that makes the CDs unplayable on more "serious equipment".

 

[jives11]

I finally got a chance to do the Mick mod. I used a .47uF Cap and 22K resistor. I am reboxing the unit, will hopefully add some controls to the front panel using a core controller. I don't need a remote

What differences would I see using different uF caps? Should I try a 3.3uF or a 4.7? I Don't understand what it would actually change.

The value of the Cap and the resistor define the bass rolloff frequency. You can reduce the cap size, as long as you modify the resistor value accordingly. The algorithm is on Micks site. You cannot keep using smaller and smaller caps indefinitely though otherwise phase effects start to kick in. I guess its a compromise between size/material and space. I used the 4.7uF wima that Mick uses and it fits but much bigger would not, unless like Dommi you run long wires and fit the caps externally OR if your preamp has DC blockers already. Mine does (Quad 44) BUT I figure I may someday give the PSone as a gift to someone (i.e my son) for a first system, so I'm leaving the DC blockers in place .
My Philips CD104 will always be used by me, and I have replaced the blockers with links. This made a big difference to that player.

 

[ttrentt]

The value of the Cap and the resistor define the bass rolloff frequency. You can reduce the cap size, as long as you modify the resistor value accordingly. The algorithm is on Micks site. You cannot keep using smaller and smaller caps indefinitely though otherwise phase effects start to kick in. I guess its a compromise between size/material and space. I used the 4.7uF wima that Mick uses and it fits but much bigger would not, unless like Dommi you run long wires and fit the caps externally OR if your preamp has DC blockers already. Mine does (Quad 44) BUT I figure I may someday give the PSone as a gift to someone (i.e my son) for a first system, so I'm leaving the DC blockers in place .
My Philips CD104 will always be used by me, and I have replaced the blockers with links. This made a big difference to that player.

I figured out the HZ that with the .47uF cap and 22K resistor the corner HZ was around 1.5 (according to the math).

I did wire for external RCA jacks, so I am not worried about space.

I am however concerned also about input impedence and the changes related to uF/resistors? What do you mean phase effects?

This mod looks very familiar to the Swenson Toshiba 3950 Mod (which I will be doing soon) (http://johnswenson1.home.comcast.net/3950_mod/Toshiba_3950_3960_mod_intro.html).

He was stating that you should use different uFs depending on input impedence. What I can't quite figure out yet is how much difference input impedence and cap values have on sounds. My NAD has an input impedence of 47K ohms and my Jolida 302 has an input impedence of 100K ohms.

TTT

 

[Dommi]

Hi TTT,
you have to limmit the Bass frequency to about 16 Hz.
I didn't limitt it and at 2 CD's of mine there are subsonique frequencys whish can distroy your equipment..

BR Dommi

 

[phn]

I also did some fiddling in my -1002. I however just made the adjustments. The reason is that I've had som problems playing newer CDs and thought that it was time to do something about it. After an hour of adjusting the different settings I still couldn't play some records without starting it up with an older record. After shouting some rather colourful words it occured to me....
I live in Sweden, so welcome to the wonderful world of Copyprotection. The kind that makes the CDs unplayable on more "serious equipment".

The PSX handles copy protected CDs. I don't have many copy protected CDs, but have no problem with the ones I have: Groundhogs "Thank Christ For the Bomb" and "Split." (A bigger problem is that sound engineers seem to have forgot to transfer the master to analogue tape. They sound like digital masters! Terrible CDs, even on the PSX.)

I had problems with my first PSX, which had one of those chips. From what I read here, and from own experience, trying to do the laser adjustments is very difficult. I never got it to work. I use the 20-bit Herbie Hancock "Head Hunters" CD as my test CD. Even my good PSX sometimes stutters on one track.

 

[ttrentt]

Hi TTT,
you have to limmit the Bass frequency to about 16 Hz.
I didn't limitt it and at 2 CD's of mine there are subsonique frequencys whish can distroy your equipment..

BR Dommi

So I should use the algorithm to create a corner frequency of 16hz for the cap and resister?

Thanks Dommi, you and all the others have been my inspiriation for modifying this unit.

 

[DragonMaster]

Hi Dommi, what capacitors and resistors have you used to block at 16Hz?

I'm doing a Mouser order either today or tomorrow so I'd like to know fast what they are.

 

[jives11]

I am however concerned also about input impedence and the changes related to uF/resistors? What do you mean phase effects?


TTT

A long time ago I recall reading an article in HiFi Choice about tweaking 16bit cd players. I recall that Phase delay problems can occur at the low frequencies if you keep using progressively smaller values of C in the high pass filter (C in series, R to ground). Now I have to admit I'm not an expert here, but my recollection was that you should not typically go much lower than 1uF without affecting the bass response. Now of course this assumes everything lese downstream has a fre resp 0- 40K+. My LS3/5a's don't go much below 40Hz. a quick search on high pass filter and phase delay ?

 

[kmj]

The PSX handles copy protected CDs. I don't have many copy protected CDs, but have no problem with the ones I have: Groundhogs "Thank Christ For the Bomb" and "Split." (A bigger problem is that sound engineers seem to have forgot to transfer the master to analogue tape. They sound like digital masters! Terrible CDs, even on the PSX.)

I had problems with my first PSX, which had one of those chips. From what I read here, and from own experience, trying to do the laser adjustments is very difficult. I never got it to work. I use the 20-bit Herbie Hancock "Head Hunters" CD as my test CD. Even my good PSX sometimes stutters on one track.

Sure? The only discs I have problems with so far are Kents two latest records and the ones from Norah Jones. Since all of them are protected and contains that extra computersoftware I assumed that it was the problem there. Easy to do with all the discussions on the swedish boards you know

Hard to adjust? I had no problems what so ever to get the "recommended" values.
But if it is as you say I'll just have to play through my collection and look for a common point on those records that aren't working.