bob123 said:
I don't think you could do any better than the punisher design. IF it meets your needs..
I also think it could reach 130 db AT 40 Hz. (..again that is AT 40 Hz.) And I have no idea what max spl would be.
The ONLY limitation IMO is building the horn (make sure you use good plywood - not mdf) .. BUT since you have committed yourself to building a horn - it shouldn't be a limitation.
Notice what they say here about needing 2:
http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/90507/0
how would that driver perform being in a bass reflex/ bandpass enclosure?
surely with a sil of 91db/w/m the driver is very inefficient and loads of power would be wasted!
I hate wasting power on inefficient speakers!
My current bass drivers 2 x skytronic 15" bass drivers (dont laugh) got 'em for £20 each. But they have a sensitivity of 93db/w/m (dont know what frequency that is at, prob 1k lol) but that is not good enough!
surely with a sil of 91db/w/m the driver is very inefficient and loads of power would be wasted!
I hate wasting power on inefficient speakers!
My current bass drivers 2 x skytronic 15" bass drivers (dont laugh) got 'em for £20 each. But they have a sensitivity of 93db/w/m (dont know what frequency that is at, prob 1k lol) but that is not good enough!
bob123 said:
The question is though: how eff. will it be for a given enclosure volume at lower freq.s like 50 Hz? Additionally, you will need a lot of drivers and a lot more overall volume to reach similar spls at lower freq.s. Still.. you could always have multiple cabs of reflex enclosures which could be easier to carry. The only real differential then (for your application) is needing more drivers (i.e. higher cost).. (..unless you don't have enough stage space to accomidate many boxs).
yea ok, im very tempted to build a horn,
do you have any plans for horns?
I just find it hard to belive that a single 12" driver will provide enough bass. What exactly does a horn do to the sound pressure to increase it, because quite blaitlanly you cant get power from nowhere! Does it force more air to be moved by the same excursion?
do you have any plans for horns?
I just find it hard to belive that a single 12" driver will provide enough bass. What exactly does a horn do to the sound pressure to increase it, because quite blaitlanly you cant get power from nowhere! Does it force more air to be moved by the same excursion?
bob123 said:
hmm.. the forum killed my response to this (..ungrateful piece of software..
)Horns:
sound typically moves through solids more efficently than liquids and especially gases (like air). With that in mind:
The driver's diaphram is a solid.. air is a gas. Transfering sound from the diaphram to air is VERY in-efficent. A horn then allows a smoother transfer (impeadance) from the diaphram to the surrounding air. Essentially air is compressed in the horn becoming more dense - allowing for a more efficient transfer. (..the greater compression is near the driver where the horn cross-section is smaller - with less compression as it expands to its "mouth".)
http://www.speakerstore.nl/index.php?l=en&pg=11&p=sp&c=21&prjID
(in particular the "cutsheet version 2" document)
The sensitivity of a speaker isn't such a important parameter when it comes to hornloaded subs. The Punisher will have around 101-102 dB/W/m from 50 Hz and up. Don't use MDF for on the road. The money you save now doesn't compare with the hassle (weight, easily damaged) you'll get later.
I wouldn't suggest to make a Punisher however unless you will use multiples per stack, use a processor (delay, lowcut and EQ it needs) and have loads of power, one Punisher would like around 1500 Wrms.
The Punisher doesn't go low without EQ, it's designed for 50 - 100 Hz. To get a solid 40 Hz it needs to be wall or corner loaded in singles or used in multiples.
Wkr Johan
I wouldn't suggest to make a Punisher however unless you will use multiples per stack, use a processor (delay, lowcut and EQ it needs) and have loads of power, one Punisher would like around 1500 Wrms.
The Punisher doesn't go low without EQ, it's designed for 50 - 100 Hz. To get a solid 40 Hz it needs to be wall or corner loaded in singles or used in multiples.
Wkr Johan
i have a 1kw rms amp for the sub, i also have a 1000w bass reflex sub tuned to 35hz.
101-102db/w/m is 10 times more sensitive than my current setup.
I doubt i will be building multiple stacks. I may put it on a bandpass filter with all the bass below 50hz going to my bass reflex. I do have an EQ.
does anyone know what frequency drum and bass goes down to? i would guess about 35hz but it could go lower.
surely horn loaded is the best way to go even if i only build the one!
101-102db/w/m is 10 times more sensitive than my current setup.
I doubt i will be building multiple stacks. I may put it on a bandpass filter with all the bass below 50hz going to my bass reflex. I do have an EQ.
does anyone know what frequency drum and bass goes down to? i would guess about 35hz but it could go lower.
surely horn loaded is the best way to go even if i only build the one!
Take Rademaker's information to heart.
The mouth area will have an influence on the low freq. response.. With this in mind you should have 2 or more of the horns placed side-by-side. The "flater" portion of the horn's mouth shoud be as close as possible to the floor. (i.e. put some removable caster wheels on the "top" of the horn for transportation.. then pull them off and flip the horn over onto the floor/stage for use.) Connect the two horn drivers in parallel to the amplifier.
Kick drum should be OK. Somewhat similarly a bass guitar would not be able to play its lowest freq.s (around 32 Hz) ..on the otherhand freq.s under 40 Hz are rarely played by a bass guitar). (..and note that their is about a 6db drop from 50 Hz to 40 Hz with this horn.)
Make absolutely sure that you use a GOOD plywood for this horn. ("good" as in strong, stable, and as void free as possible.) Again.. (this is the 3rd time you have been warned) do NOT use mdf (also don't use particle board).
IF you do a good job constructing them and "finish" them well - then you could easily sell them for double your materials cost to someone who knows and appreciates good equipment.
The mouth area will have an influence on the low freq. response.. With this in mind you should have 2 or more of the horns placed side-by-side. The "flater" portion of the horn's mouth shoud be as close as possible to the floor. (i.e. put some removable caster wheels on the "top" of the horn for transportation.. then pull them off and flip the horn over onto the floor/stage for use.) Connect the two horn drivers in parallel to the amplifier.
Kick drum should be OK. Somewhat similarly a bass guitar would not be able to play its lowest freq.s (around 32 Hz) ..on the otherhand freq.s under 40 Hz are rarely played by a bass guitar). (..and note that their is about a 6db drop from 50 Hz to 40 Hz with this horn.)
Make absolutely sure that you use a GOOD plywood for this horn. ("good" as in strong, stable, and as void free as possible.) Again.. (this is the 3rd time you have been warned) do NOT use mdf (also don't use particle board).
IF you do a good job constructing them and "finish" them well - then you could easily sell them for double your materials cost to someone who knows and appreciates good equipment.
bob123 said:
1- not really.
They just fake it and call it a horn.
2- 10 meters is short for a decent horn at 40Hz.
2-3 wavelengths is best.
driver size you say 12" is irrelavent.
The horn action is determined by its length.
3- But are those horns really providing 'horn' action at 40Hz?
not really.
1. Why are you saying stuff like this do you not have anything better to do?
2. 1. No it is a horn but is slighly less efficient - otherwise how would it be possible to get spl's of 104db/w/m out of a driver with spl's of 91db/w/m?????
.2 Well wouldnt we all like to build a speaker that is made of 10m long, concrete and portable!(provided you have about 16 helecopters).
the driver size is very relivant when you compact a horn, as the throat area is dependant on the driver size!
3. baring in mind that the horns respond down to 50hz i doubt there is any horn action at 40hz (whats your point?)
2. 1. No it is a horn but is slighly less efficient - otherwise how would it be possible to get spl's of 104db/w/m out of a driver with spl's of 91db/w/m?????
.2 Well wouldnt we all like to build a speaker that is made of 10m long, concrete and portable!(provided you have about 16 helecopters).
the driver size is very relivant when you compact a horn, as the throat area is dependant on the driver size!
3. baring in mind that the horns respond down to 50hz i doubt there is any horn action at 40hz (whats your point?)
Bob,
As you will note, there are some very intelligent people on this forum who can provide you with very valuable information throughout your build. The key here is understanding that speaker building is an ongoing process, not simply a project. This was a fundamental problem with my personal approach to the hobby when I first got into it. Your aspirations are challenging and you will need help, but frankly, your attitude stinks at present and it is going to get you written off and dismissed by those that are serious and can help you most. Remember that you will catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Keep an open mind and a calm temper, you will get more replies, with more info, explained in a better way.
Regards
As you will note, there are some very intelligent people on this forum who can provide you with very valuable information throughout your build. The key here is understanding that speaker building is an ongoing process, not simply a project. This was a fundamental problem with my personal approach to the hobby when I first got into it. Your aspirations are challenging and you will need help, but frankly, your attitude stinks at present and it is going to get you written off and dismissed by those that are serious and can help you most. Remember that you will catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Keep an open mind and a calm temper, you will get more replies, with more info, explained in a better way.
Regards
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