Another cause for the TOC fault !?
Hi all,
After a lot of reading and 'gripletting' I am glad to announce another living CD104 relative - a CD44 marrantz model.
Had the TOC fault and after replacing all the griplets (found it easy to remove them entirely after desoldering and bending up the tabs to extract the entire griplet) I was still staring at the same machine with the same fault.
I could get the CD to read a TOC only if a tapped the radial arm into the hub, if left to it's own devices it stayed on the outer edge and 'skittered' a bit
I had noticed the BD139/140 pair were running very hot and the voltages weren't the nice 11.5V that the schematic told me should be there. (SERVO2 B14 - Transistors 6240/6241)
Replacing the capcitors (2265/2266) rectified the fault, I'm thinkning that maybe the radial arm was effectively being driven to the outside by the faulty caps .. now replaced @ 47uF as this is what i had at hand.
As an aside I found these great lookalike caps from an old 3Com ethernet switch, so the board doesn't look like a frankenstein with the replacements. <see attachment>
Thanks to everyone who posted here, would have had to send the player to the shed if not for the information here.
Hi all,
After a lot of reading and 'gripletting' I am glad to announce another living CD104 relative - a CD44 marrantz model.
Had the TOC fault and after replacing all the griplets (found it easy to remove them entirely after desoldering and bending up the tabs to extract the entire griplet) I was still staring at the same machine with the same fault.
I could get the CD to read a TOC only if a tapped the radial arm into the hub, if left to it's own devices it stayed on the outer edge and 'skittered' a bit
I had noticed the BD139/140 pair were running very hot and the voltages weren't the nice 11.5V that the schematic told me should be there. (SERVO2 B14 - Transistors 6240/6241)
Replacing the capcitors (2265/2266) rectified the fault, I'm thinkning that maybe the radial arm was effectively being driven to the outside by the faulty caps .. now replaced @ 47uF as this is what i had at hand.
As an aside I found these great lookalike caps from an old 3Com ethernet switch, so the board doesn't look like a frankenstein with the replacements. <see attachment>
Thanks to everyone who posted here, would have had to send the player to the shed if not for the information here.
Attachments
GlouBou said:
Hi.
A quick search would have lead you to several examples of replacing the TDA1540 with another DAC, usually the TDA1541A in non-OS mode.
So it is possible!
A 'Plug and Play' job it is not! It requires a lot of desoldering and circuit alterations!
Here's one thread for starters :-
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78457&highlight=
Andy
GlouBou said:Hello,
I mean replace the internal DAC card by another.
Juste leave CDM2 controler and connect a DAC-AH for exemple.
Regards
Hi.
The CD104 uses the CDM-1 mechanism and does not have a DAC card as such.
Apart from the space considerations, it would be possible but again it is not plug and play.
The interface of the existing DAC, TDA1540, is completely different to that used in say the TDA1541 or TDA1543. So an interface adapter would have to be built. This again can be found by a search.
Andy
IV resistors 3574 & 3595 ?
re-examining the schematics, the first half of a 5532 performs the IV conversion function. The Current "steps" are turned into a variable voltage across the resistors which link the input of the opamp with the output I *think*?
On the schematic these are 3574 and 3595 and are both 1/4 watt 5% 1.8K metal resistors. They are full size resistors as opposed to surface mount.
Given the critical nature of their function (confirmed by the higher spec) I was wondering n the relative merits of replacing them with better quality components ? I have some old holcos in a box in the shed and it's possible that I might have a pair of 1.8K. They had a 0.5% tolerance and a wider temperature range. I also think they were non-magnetic.
Anyone reaped any benefit from swapping this resistors for something better ? It would seem an easy mod to do
re-examining the schematics, the first half of a 5532 performs the IV conversion function. The Current "steps" are turned into a variable voltage across the resistors which link the input of the opamp with the output I *think*?
On the schematic these are 3574 and 3595 and are both 1/4 watt 5% 1.8K metal resistors. They are full size resistors as opposed to surface mount.
Given the critical nature of their function (confirmed by the higher spec) I was wondering n the relative merits of replacing them with better quality components ? I have some old holcos in a box in the shed and it's possible that I might have a pair of 1.8K. They had a 0.5% tolerance and a wider temperature range. I also think they were non-magnetic.
Anyone reaped any benefit from swapping this resistors for something better ? It would seem an easy mod to do
more mods
well last week I made a few more mods in line with me philosophy of keeping to basically the original design
1) I replaced all the caps on the PSU board. I reasoned that at 23 years of age they could all do with a replacement. I used Rubycon ZA & ZL for most. two of the axials were Vishay 40v that are used in the -18v supply. All parts from farnell.
2) I swapped out the I/V feedback 1.8K resistors 3574 & 3575 for Vishay bulk foils of the same value. Just about enough space. I had to get these from partsconnexion in Canada as the UK suppliers did not have the right value. partsconnexion were very good, very prompt shipping. I figured that the tolerence of these resistors is important, coupled with the fact that they are very close to the coils of the pre-emphasis relay. The vishays are non magnetic. I considered using Audio Note or tantalum resistors here, but I couldn't get any good data sheets on these to ***** their tolerance, just the usual "try these they sound better" stuff.
3) While I had the servo board removed and could see the underside of the decoder board I fitted a few 22nF ceramic decoupling caps . The +v supply to the Right channel NE5532 has no local decoupling cap, where as the -v supply has a ceramic very close to the pin. I soldered a cap across pin 8 to pin 3.
While the left hand channel does have 22nF ceramic decouplers on both channels 2618 is a long way from the opamp. So I did the same trick on the left channel between pins 3 & 4
I'm only at the stage of having it powered up and proving music still comes up, which is always a relief. I need more time before I can ***** the changes
well last week I made a few more mods in line with me philosophy of keeping to basically the original design
1) I replaced all the caps on the PSU board. I reasoned that at 23 years of age they could all do with a replacement. I used Rubycon ZA & ZL for most. two of the axials were Vishay 40v that are used in the -18v supply. All parts from farnell.
2) I swapped out the I/V feedback 1.8K resistors 3574 & 3575 for Vishay bulk foils of the same value. Just about enough space. I had to get these from partsconnexion in Canada as the UK suppliers did not have the right value. partsconnexion were very good, very prompt shipping. I figured that the tolerence of these resistors is important, coupled with the fact that they are very close to the coils of the pre-emphasis relay. The vishays are non magnetic. I considered using Audio Note or tantalum resistors here, but I couldn't get any good data sheets on these to ***** their tolerance, just the usual "try these they sound better" stuff.
3) While I had the servo board removed and could see the underside of the decoder board I fitted a few 22nF ceramic decoupling caps . The +v supply to the Right channel NE5532 has no local decoupling cap, where as the -v supply has a ceramic very close to the pin. I soldered a cap across pin 8 to pin 3.
While the left hand channel does have 22nF ceramic decouplers on both channels 2618 is a long way from the opamp. So I did the same trick on the left channel between pins 3 & 4
I'm only at the stage of having it powered up and proving music still comes up, which is always a relief. I need more time before I can ***** the changes
I replace all capacitors in power supply, all capacitors in decoder board, remove 7030, remove ne5532 and replace with opa2134pa, put J505 diode from output pin to -VE for class A, separate power supply for OP, replace output caps for Mundorf RXF 22uF type....
Sounds fantastic
Only one thing: seems to me that with replace 5532 with 2134 I got stronger output signal…
Maybe some other value for 1.8k (3574, 3595)?
Sounds fantastic
Only one thing: seems to me that with replace 5532 with 2134 I got stronger output signal…
Maybe some other value for 1.8k (3574, 3595)?
I've just acquired a Philips CD204. I understand this is basically the same machine as a CD104, but with some frills. Is this correct? Sadly, it doesn't work - the usual 104 problem of not reading the TOC. I've read this thread with great interest - there are some top tips here! However, even though I've very carefully resoldered the through-holes on the boards (it doesn't have the dreaded griplets) it's had no effect. Since the usual method hasn't worked, I've now downloaded a 104 manual so I can check voltages and do some diagnostics, but the manual is in Dutch and I can't read it. It also seems to be an abbreviated version, since it checks in at a little over 3 Mb and I believe the full thing is around 12 Mb. Does anyone have an English copy of the CD 104 manual that I could download - even the abbreviated one would be great. I really don't want to give up on this player! My email address is vintage.vet<remove this bit>@ntlworld.com
Thanks
Neil
Thanks
Neil
CD104 Manual
Hi Neil,
I have uploaded the English version of the manual here ....
http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=412275
It is the full 13Mb version.
Good luck.
Andy
Vintage Vet said:
Hi Neil,
I have uploaded the English version of the manual here ....
http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=412275
It is the full 13Mb version.
Good luck.
Andy
Andy (Poynton) - just what I needed! Thanks for that. Thanks too to Jonathon (Jives11) for emailing me to offer to email the manual to me. This is a really helpful forum. I'll post again either when I've sorted the problem out or when I'm so frustrated that I need some suggestions from you solid-state experts!
Neil
Neil
CD104's for sale in the UK.
Hi guys,
I am having a clearout of my garage and have 8 CD104's for sale.
Most are working but a few are awaiting the griplet treatment.
Anyone in the UK interested before I put them on Fleabay ??
I live on the N. Wales coast.
I also have some of the big brother, CD304, as well.
Andy
Hi guys,
I am having a clearout of my garage and have 8 CD104's for sale.
Most are working but a few are awaiting the griplet treatment.
Anyone in the UK interested before I put them on Fleabay ??
I live on the N. Wales coast.
I also have some of the big brother, CD304, as well.
Andy
Hi.
In response to a couple of questions, the Dutch version of the CD104 manual is here :-
http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=443727
As usual, it will disappear in about 1 month.
(one day, I will get my own website and host it there!!)
Andy
In response to a couple of questions, the Dutch version of the CD104 manual is here :-
http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=443727
As usual, it will disappear in about 1 month.
(one day, I will get my own website and host it there!!)
Andy