Yes Stuard I wonder too . Assuming that the Gurus here can design an aboslute correct amplifier with no errors yet when play on different speakers they sound different, are
they going to blame the speaker designers as well. My comment on cap sound was call
hogwash. Wonder what comment they would make on guys who mentions that they know
the sound of the driver by looking at the cone material
they going to blame the speaker designers as well. My comment on cap sound was call
hogwash. Wonder what comment they would make on guys who mentions that they know
the sound of the driver by looking at the cone material
Yes I find differences too. Sometimes not very subtle either ! Some differences have never been satisfactorily explained by anyone so far. However its a very complex affair as the differences vary with application. So there is no such thing as one best brand or type.
So those who don't hear any differences are lucky because they can use any type of cap for their application. Those who can hear a difference ( real or not ) have to plod through the process of searching for what they like. It doesn't really matter what anyone does. If they like what they are doing, that's all that matters...enjoying what you are doing.
If someone can't hear any difference when I can, it doesn't really matter to me. I might tell them what I hear and urge them to check it but I wouldn't try to insist that they are 'wrong' if they can't hear what I can !Each one should do one's own thing and be happy with that .....it's their private territory.....no one can trespass on that ...I guess !
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Why stop at capacitors? What about the "sound" of resistors, transistors, transformers or PCB layout to name but a few.
Isn't it strange that we fixate on only one single aspect of a design? If you can't solder, it is cables. After learning to solder you progress onto capacitors.
Still not able to design an amp. But I can replace a capacitor in 20 seconds.
Isn't it strange that we fixate on only one single aspect of a design? If you can't solder, it is cables. After learning to solder you progress onto capacitors.
Still not able to design an amp. But I can replace a capacitor in 20 seconds.
True ! Everything that 'we' can easily change is often tried. Sometimes with no difference and sometimes with big differences. Remember that even with no " electrical components or wires changed " , the design and appearance of the outer box , can bias the sound we perceive. This has been seen over and over again.
So actually it's a brain thing ! Either that is taking us for a ride very subtly or we really enjoy the ride it offers. There are a lot of things we still do not understand .....and probably never will. As long as they keep producing good music and record it properly ( uncompressed etc ) I don't really care.
Cheers.
Everything that 'we' can easily change is often tried. Sometimes with no difference and sometimes with big differences. Remember that even with no " electrical components or wires changed " , the design and appearance of the outer box , can bias the sound we perceive. This has been seen over and over again.So actually it's a brain thing !
Either that is taking us for a ride very subtly or we really enjoy the ride it offers. There are a lot of things we still do not understand .....and probably never will. As long as they keep producing good music and record it properly ( uncompressed etc ) I don't really care.Cheers.
When a good amp is played through different speakers then the speakers sound different. This is because electromechanical system design is much more difficult and constrained by compromise than electronic design.sumotan said:
Not that surprising. There are good physical reasons why speaker sound is affected by cone material. These reasons do not mean that amplifier sound is affected by the name printed on a capacitor.
The key word there is "perceive".ashok said:
AndrewT and especially DF96,
you've proved my argument completely and you just don't see it do you.
The arrogance of DF896 is breathtaking but par for the cause. The most important part of any system is that which carries the signal, nothing can be more important. You and Andrew are the ones that have turned everything on it's head.
I/connects made today completely ignore Heaviside's proven work. Neither of you said a word about 'the music' because in reality it' simply not important to either of you - exposed and you don't realise it, hilarious.
Like Sumotan said there are those into the music and those who are into the equipment. Your 'truth' must be true because you believe it. A pyscho-analytic reply would be out of place on this forum but I shall use your replies on another forum where this approach is applicable.
you've proved my argument completely and you just don't see it do you.
The arrogance of DF896 is breathtaking but par for the cause. The most important part of any system is that which carries the signal, nothing can be more important. You and Andrew are the ones that have turned everything on it's head.
I/connects made today completely ignore Heaviside's proven work. Neither of you said a word about 'the music' because in reality it' simply not important to either of you - exposed and you don't realise it, hilarious.
Like Sumotan said there are those into the music and those who are into the equipment. Your 'truth' must be true because you believe it. A pyscho-analytic reply would be out of place on this forum but I shall use your replies on another forum where this approach is applicable.
For any Human "reality" is the how the individual decodes electrical impulses in the brain. Therefore it should be obvious that we cannot say what one person or another may experience and where the absolute limit of resolution is. It's clear that some people have greater analytic capabilities regarding what they hear, I'm certain this is because it was handy when evading predators etc. I have to confess I'm rather envious of people who cannot perceive the subtle (and sometimes not so subtle!) differences in musical reproduction equipment under discussion, it must be nice to be so easily pleased Why worry about the fact that someone else doesn't hear what you can? If they are oblivious then whatever you say will not make the slightest difference. I must also say that it always strikes me as rather ignorant to suppose that no one else could possibly have greater powers of auditory perception than yourself and I have never had those thoughts myself. So when someone tells you that you cannot possibly hear what you are hearing, just smile sweetly and ignore them, they demonstrably do not know what they are talking about.
It is all about hearing and perception which changes constantly depending on physical and mental state. We tend to tire easily and become bored with the same old same old and crave a change. We crave it so much that often any change is perceived as an improvement because in a way, it is, it can come as a relief and can re-engage us with what we are listening to. I'm too lazy these days to do anything too drastic to my system, I just change the record.....................
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Most parts in an audio system 'carry the signal' but to varying extents and with varying degrees of closeness to ideal behaviour. About the nearest to ideal behaviour are the wires, so they are the items which are least important when spending time and money on design and purchase. However, these seem to be the things most concentrated on by people who cannot solder or understand circuits; presumably on the grounds beloved by politicians of all types: change what you can, and hope it makes a difference.Black Stuart said:
I asked you about which aspect of Heaviside's work you mean. I await your reply. There are certainly interconnects made which misunderstand Heaviside's work; for example, thinking that a short audio cable has to be considered as a transmission line.
That is precisely the opposite of what I think.
Do you want to engage in a discussion or simply throw around random falsehoods?
Why not argue with what has been said, rather than what has not been said? I do not claim any particular powers of auditory perception (high or low) so I make no judgement about those who believe themselves to have higher or lower abilities. However, careful experiments have shown what is likely to be perceived and many of the claims made fall well below these thresholds so are extremely unlikely to be audible, and such audibility as is claimed usually seems to disappear under carefully controlled conditions. Occam's Razor thus requires that the claims must be considered to be false, in the absence of any clear evidence to the contrary.ceol said:
Coming in from the other end, the least ideal parts in an audio system are the transducers. Then active devices and wound components, then capacitors, then resistors and finally the wires are the most ideal. However, there is a big gap in performance between non-ideal wound components and almost-ideal capacitors. That is why it is so funny that faradaphobes seek to remove caps from audio, in some cases replacing them with much worse transformers or active devices.
Don't be so quick to cut at DF96 and his brethren.
Some of the most useful, audible, "ear opening" changes I've made are a direct result of their input/wisdom.
Take a moment to consider they are EE's with decades of design experience and very well respected in their fields.
Even if they were totally deaf from birth their input is generally at minimum an order of magnitude more useful than what passes for informed knowledge on this forum.
However, it takes us fools a while to catch on and understand. Of course they have opinions like everyone else, but they make the concerted effort to separate the wheat from the chaff and in the end save you money and mental health- which is noble and should be respected.
Without them, god knows how many more of us would've been electrocuted.
If I were in their position I'd have given up a long time ago. They deserve our thanks and appreciation not our wrath, even if ones perspectives differ.
Are these old stock Russian mil parts generally of very good construction quality? I believe the answer to be yes. Surely they have the least expensive available teflons on the planet by a large spread. There are also other high quality dielectrics at low cost to be had. This should be appealing to the DIYer.
The issue is, as usual, semantics such as: "one of the best".
Best value? Best looking? Best I know of? Best bedside manner? Best performance?
Best way to ruin a good opportunity for intelligent discussion?
Some of the most useful, audible, "ear opening" changes I've made are a direct result of their input/wisdom.
Take a moment to consider they are EE's with decades of design experience and very well respected in their fields.
Even if they were totally deaf from birth their input is generally at minimum an order of magnitude more useful than what passes for informed knowledge on this forum.
However, it takes us fools a while to catch on and understand. Of course they have opinions like everyone else, but they make the concerted effort to separate the wheat from the chaff and in the end save you money and mental health- which is noble and should be respected.
Without them, god knows how many more of us would've been electrocuted.
If I were in their position I'd have given up a long time ago. They deserve our thanks and appreciation not our wrath, even if ones perspectives differ.
Are these old stock Russian mil parts generally of very good construction quality? I believe the answer to be yes. Surely they have the least expensive available teflons on the planet by a large spread. There are also other high quality dielectrics at low cost to be had. This should be appealing to the DIYer.
The issue is, as usual, semantics such as: "one of the best".
Best value? Best looking? Best I know of? Best bedside manner? Best performance?
Best way to ruin a good opportunity for intelligent discussion?
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What is the point of trying to prove anything to someone with such a closed mind? You already claim to "Know" what is possible and what is not.
A major setback is that it seems you are incapable of either hearing/feeling/processing (choose your own words) any change in resolution below a certain threshold, this is by your own admission BTW. Therefore I really doubt it's even possible, if you can't hear it you can't hear it!
As I said I really do envy you, it must be wonderful!
What annoys me is the strange point of view that because you cannot perceive these differences, that they could not possibly exist! Do you really presume to be the judge of all human perception? You have learned some engineering principles and formulae (as indeed I have) and you think this somehow magically endows you with the power to proclaim all others are deluded and just plain wrong?
"There are those that know and those that don't know, and there are those that don't know, they don't know"
PS You really don't know.
A major setback is that it seems you are incapable of either hearing/feeling/processing (choose your own words) any change in resolution below a certain threshold, this is by your own admission BTW. Therefore I really doubt it's even possible, if you can't hear it you can't hear it!
As I said I really do envy you, it must be wonderful!
What annoys me is the strange point of view that because you cannot perceive these differences, that they could not possibly exist! Do you really presume to be the judge of all human perception? You have learned some engineering principles and formulae (as indeed I have) and you think this somehow magically endows you with the power to proclaim all others are deluded and just plain wrong?
"There are those that know and those that don't know, and there are those that don't know, they don't know"
PS You really don't know.
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